[ Manga ] Chapter 268 Discussion

[lommm]

no one addressed my hisagi question... oh well... (he does have a 69 on his face and he played a crucial role in the aizen/gin and hinamori/renji/kira flashbacks...


anyway, if this fight isn't over next chapter, it's only because of the second head that was asleep. because that upward arcing slash straight from the eye and out of the head should completely destroy the upper head that was doing all the talking. and if kubo is consistent then because #9 is just a hollow and not really an espada, that head should vanish into purification...

[shenzu]

@ lomm: i addressed it in the episode 119 discussion thread

[WarpObscura]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

Ichigo hasnt improved a great deal after the Grim vs Ichi 2 . As its Hueco Mundo Hichigo will be powered up as much as Ichi or even more . Though Hichi/Ichi have powered up its not possible for them to take on all espada . If Ichi does he will will have to rely on Hichi which will end in affecting Ichi's sanity . The mission's sucess or failure depends on Ichigo and team mates

If Rukia does win Ichigo's burden gets reduced so Kt is indicating Team Ichigo may taste sucess . Each Espada Team Ichigo takes out its a lesser burden for Ichi to face . Ichi IMO will face a mininmum of one espada before taking on Grim . If Ishida Renji Rukia dont perform the burden grows and number of Espda Ichi has to face is more .

If Rukia does win its an indirect indication Team Ichigo's mission may be succesful .

That appears to make sense. Fair enough.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

* Espada9 is overrated if Rukia takes Espada9 out its pretty much obituaries for Grim too . And these arnt the Espada which Aizen plans to start WW with . The previous arc was to showcase Espada and especially arrancar this arc is to show case our heroes .

Given HOW Rukia defeated Espada9 in this chapter, we need not jump to such conclusions about the rest of them.
Rukia didn't overpower/outfight/outskill him or any of those things. He just made a stupid error, and gave Rukia a free shot which she used to deal a instant kill... We can say that the re-formation of her sword was very fast and thus even beyond his reaction time, so not only he but others would have fallen for the same thing in his position, possibly even Ichigo aswell... If she had beat him through raw strength THAN we might worry about the rest of them.

It actually is a rather interesting way too beat such a high level character... most of the time you see characters using these incredibly powerful moves to overpower whatever their foe is using, and through a combination of speed/power and what-not gaining victory and proving themselves stronger... Rukia however, used a rather simple attack, and merely took advantage of his lowered guard... she beat him, without proving she was actually stronger... truly is an example of a weaker beating a stronger

* Espada 9 was a great chracter @_@ I really dont think its posssible to say a chracter is great or not from 4 chapters let alone good

That i would have to agree with...
I mean, first off their is the psychological effect he has on rukia, definatly enough to make him into a somewhat re-accuring villian to face of aginast rukia, just as Grim is trying to be for Ichigo. Secondly, he had the powers of thousands of hollows, and we didn't get to see any of it... i mean we could have see a very crazy assorment of attacks out of him and we got to see was him attack with his trident.... hell there would be some great possibilty in him actually like killing off another important shimigami, making the death very emotional, but then he turns around and start using that shimigami's attacks... really, he is a character with a lot of potential.

Originally Posted by lommm

and if kubo is consistent then because #9 is just a hollow and not really an espada, that head should vanish into purification...

eh? espada9 IS an espada... he is an annacar like all the other espadas...
If you refering to how he called himself a gillian, then your a bit mistaken... what he meant by that is that he was FORMALLY a gillian hollow before he turned into an annacar... all of the other espada's when they were hollows, they were all much higher level than gillian... that's why espada9 calls himself "the only gillian" in the espada... so he's like the rest of them, not a hollow

[Zu Ra]

I was being sarcastic earlier ^^ .Espada 9 if he had any potential he would have shown/showcased it by 4 chapters . All he did show is arrogance and blob . He may have done this and that is purely fanfiction the bottomline is he didnt . And Grim has class and personality of his own Espada 9 used Kaien's personality as he didnt have any himself .

The only thing going for Espada 9 was whether he was Kaien or not . Once it did get established he was not ,the chracter is pretty much lousy or pathetic I have seen better villians

Given HOW Rukia defeated Espada9 in this chapter, we need not jump to such conclusions about the rest of them.Rukia didn't overpower/outfight/outskill him or any of those things

Bankai Ichigo took out Yami's arm, Bankai Ichigo not Vichigo . If the battle had continued we would had a dead Yami .The strongest Espada seen in proper combat was Grim he got pretty much pawned by Shinji An Espada vs a Rogue Vizardized Shinigami and an espada getting pawned speaks volumes of current espada strength .

Also Aizen clearly states he plans to start WW with a arrancarized Vasterode espada . Most likely Ichi is taking out two Espada by this arc if this mission doesnt fail . Ulqi is belived to be a Vasterode Espada but the current composition is mainly Adjucas .

[LIQUIDCELL]

Could someone post a spoiler ----summarizing from chapter 215 up to the present???!??? Please???!????!

I've missed a lot and if this is forbidden to post it here, kindly send it as a message ...... please........

[kagato3]

Intresting enuff Kaien's death may have even been the reason for her to have come up with her instant blade repair, since one of the reasons he died was because his sword was destroyed and he had to fight hand to hand.

[Scep]

Well but if she was formulating her blade dance skilll so she wouldnt face the same situation as kaien, it wouldnt be effective cause kaien's zanpakuto was totally destroyed. There was nothing to reform.

[Zu Ra]

A zanapkuto uis direct manifestation of shinigami powers . The first thing that happens when you become a shinigami is get a Zanapkuto . A zanapkuto can be materialized if the user is capable enough . The speed of regenration is a diffrent issue .

[lommm]

that will suck! if anything, i hope he's just dead. if the other head does wake up, i want it to be a comic relief head and it can follow her like Pesh and the other hollows follow their friends.

btw, we've seen ichigo, renji and chad in the last few chapters, but it's been forever since we saw Ishida. seriously, shouldn't that guy be going at hyper speed like ichigo? one or both of them should run into somebody soon!

[kagato3]

I'm fairly sure the fights basicly over #9 is either dead or is going to be forced to retreat do to his wound. If he is dead we can pretty much write off all the Espada below #5 in this arc and it will most likely play out Ichi/Grim, Ishida/#7, Renji/#8, Rukia/#9, and Chad/Yami.

Baring capture or Urahara rescue party, I'm perrty sure Ichigo's going to show up soon mainly cause Rukia needs some major healing and he has Nell in tow. The quest now is will there be anything left of #9 when he gets there.

[ThoHell]

I honestly don't see how this mission to save Inoue will have a good outcome. This sin't like SS, these guys are much stronger than our heros and they're being observed EVERY SINGLE STEP, unlike they were in SS. Basicall they're just a form of intertainment/data collection/ or a plot of a large magnitude. 2 heros are already down.......They could easily be stopped, yet they're not really making much of an effort at it...

[cellardoor]

I think this battle may be a sign of the success of their mission, Rukia who was mostly supposed to be the weakest in the group managed to beat one of the Espada. (I know #9 may not be dead but I do think this battle is over) And I think Renji also is going to take down Zael, he speaks the words of his defeat IMHO, if only he had some moral issues like loving a sibling, I would say the opposite but he just gave reasons Renji and us to hate him. Talking about his brother like a piece of s*** seems like he wants to be killed dead XD

More importantly, as long as KT writes this manga, there will be always a huge surprise factor that we never see it coming(and there are some we can predict like betrayels, healers for the sake of our heros) So I really don't doubt about his skills for turning out this mission into a successful one. Of course I may be wrong but by a simple logic that "Ichigo is the hero, hero needs to win if it is an important task", I think they will get Inoue and survive this. But Inoue destroying hougyoku is another story, I don't know about that.

[gibits]

Why does everyone assume Rukia is the weakest? Before she got her powers back I'd agree with that opinion but as of now I'd say Chad is the weakest. Rukia was able to one-shot an accarar while Chad was useless. Now all Chad has done was turn left-handed (yay for converting to the superior side), and can attack with more power.

My ranking of the team as of now: Ichigo, Ishida, Renji, Rukia, Chad.

Not too sure about Ishida vs. Renji, but Ishida has beaten a captain and his new tricks seem to put him above Renji, granted Renji has to fight a harder opponent i'd still give Ishida the upper hand (that and I'm a Ishida fanboy).

[cellardoor]

I don't think Rukia is weak, either but that is a general assumption that many people like to believe. I didn't put her in any ranking because we never saw her fighting seriously. The fight with #9 proved the opposite pretty much. But nevertheless I'd rather not to rank them because they have different abilities. Renji is a better swordsman but sucks at kidou, Ishida is good at middle/high range battles, So I think excluding Ichigo, it is impossible to rank them without they fight with each other, unless they fight directly everything is speculation. And I edited my post, I didn't realize it semed like I thought Rukia was weak ^^' Actually I get mad when people take their assumptions as a proof and never give up them even it was disproved, when it comes to only and only Rukia >:|

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by gibits

Why does everyone assume Rukia is the weakest? Before she got her powers back I'd agree with that opinion but as of now I'd say Chad is the weakest. Rukia was able to one-shot an accarar while Chad was useless. Now all Chad has done was turn left-handed (yay for converting to the superior side), and can attack with more power.

My ranking of the team as of now: Ichigo, Ishida, Renji, Rukia, Chad.

Not too sure about Ishida vs. Renji, but Ishida has beaten a captain and his new tricks seem to put him above Renji, granted Renji has to fight a harder opponent i'd still give Ishida the upper hand (that and I'm a Ishida fanboy).

It can be hard to judge... i mean, for one thing when it comes to Chad and Rukia, yes Rukia killed an anccarar in one blow, but it was a weaker anccarar, not even an espada. Chad on the other hand easily beat a former espada, a much stronger opponent. And sure Rukia now killed and Espda, but not through superior strength, just carelessness of her oppenent.

As for ishida... Yes he has beaten a captain before, but that was using a once in a lifetime move... if he didn't break that glove of his he would have lost badly. Because he used a move that he will can never use again, it can't really be considered into Ishida's overall fighting ability.

I honestly don't see how this mission to save Inoue will have a good outcome. This sin't like SS, these guys are much stronger than our heros and they're being observed EVERY SINGLE STEP, unlike they were in SS. Basicall they're just a form of intertainment/data collection/ or a plot of a large magnitude. 2 heros are already down.......They could easily be stopped, yet they're not really making much of an effort at it...

that's half right... the major difference between this and SS is the fact that their movements are being watched, and thus Aizen and can move in when he wants to... unlike in SS where the captains spent most of the time running around searching for them...

However, the strength difference is not THAT much of a difference... Remember, back in SS, when compared to the cpatains, our heros were much weaker by comparison... Ishida was completely outmatched and only won against the captain using an ultimate once in a life time attack (sorta of like a sacrifice-move, which in shonen are INCREDIBLY powerful), and chad was totally outmatched when he ran into a captain... really, Ichigo was the only one who stood a chance, and he eventually even needed to get a power up just to keep going... without of which he would have been beaten... So ya, when it comes to strength, our Heros are kinda no better off now, as they were back during SS

When it comes to non-espada... none of our heros will have any trouble(like with the shimigami of SS).. when it comes to like #6-10 espada, our heros will find a fairly even fight(like with the vice captains and seated shimigami of SS)... When it comes to #1-5 and such, everyone will be outmatched except for Ichigo (like the captains of SS)

[gibits]

Sure the anaccar that she beat was weak, but Chad was completely useless, even against a weak one. While its true her opponent let her gaurd down for her to strike him, she was still able to reform her blade on sheer force of will to beat him. Can you blame him for not seeing that happen? Rukia was impaled, and her sword was broken, plus even with Kiaen's memory he didn't know she had this move. I would still give her full credit.

Its true that Ishida had to burn himself up to beat a captain, hence once in a lifetime chance, but Renji doesn't even have one chance.

[trioxylon]

Originally Posted by LIQUIDCELL

Could someone post a spoiler ----summarizing from chapter 215 up to the present???!??? Please???!????!

I've missed a lot and if this is forbidden to post it here, kindly send it as a message ...... please........

To put it shortly:
Well basically, Ichigo goes to the vaizards to learn how to control it, which he does learns how to kind of control it. Aizen gets interested in Orhime's ability to reverse time and kidnaps her, so Ichigo, Chad, and Ishida go to Hueco Mundo to save her. There they meet up with Rukia and Renji. They also meet up with some three "good guy" arrancar. They go in a castle, split up, and end up in their own battles. Chad has two upgrades: his original arms turns to a big shield, and his other arm is the "devil's left arm" or the one he uses to attack. He wins against on ex-espada, but a current espada hurts his shield arm. Another espada saves him later on. Ishida fights another ex-espada, and beats her with a sword-like bow. Um.. I forgot what happened with Renji. Ichigo took one ex-espada, of course, and beat him. Rukia meet up with Kaien, who really wasn't Kaien, but an arrancar and espada who absorbed Kaien and the hollow who absorbed Kaien. Rukia got stabbed on the arrancar's trident, but Rukia, I guess, did a beat him....

There you go, but I probably skipped a lot of stuff, and messed up here and there.

[Lendial]

im pretty sure ishi will eventualy be able to use ultimate form w/o losing his powers, its a reasonable powerup seeing as shinigami have both bankai AND vaizard now. either that or something very close to it in terms of power.

[gibits]

Originally Posted by Lendial

im pretty sure ishi will eventualy be able to use ultimate form w/o losing his powers, its a reasonable powerup seeing as shinigami have both bankai AND vaizard now. either that or something very close to it in terms of power.

IIRC Ishida was not able to maintain such a high level of absorption without burning himself out. His father childes him because he was not talented enough, and not able to handle it.

It seems that the Quincy final form is a natural progression but Ishida was not able to handle it since he's such a n00b (unlike his father).