Mahouka LN - Steeplechase Chapter (Volume 13) Discussion / Poll

[kusabireika]

^ maybe tatsuya has 3rd natural magic that belong to him that maya thought it was op so she seal him and ask her sister to remove all emotion from tatsuya except sibling love so they can control to him

Either way if tatsuya is hiding 3rd magic he himself will know already unless ._. Miya remove that memory to tatsuya ._.

If he has 3rd magic, I guess this is why referred a sin because he can't control it

Well uhm it's just a speculation we don't know if tatsuya is hiding or doesn't know that he has 3rd natural magic beside decomposition and regrowth 0_0

[Delftear]

It's also possible that Tatsuya was a monster. A 5 or 6 year old that could use decomposition having a temper tantrum would be scary. Maybe because of his special abilities he was able to use magic earlier than normal, before he developed much of a moral framework. They did say that the experiment was for other reasons in addition to the artificial mage plan.

Just not enough info.

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by Delftear

It's also possible that Tatsuya was a monster. A 5 or 6 year old that could use decomposition having a temper tantrum would be scary. Maybe because of his special abilities he was able to use magic earlier than normal, before he developed much of a moral framework. They did say that the experiment was for other reasons in addition to the artificial mage plan.

Just not enough info.

Yeah, I agree....removing his strong emotions and attachments might have been the entire point.

Look at what we have: a boy born with the ability to destroy and restore--basically play around with the concept of matter--he was also very intelligent which of course implies strong curiosity, so he began experimenting with his gifts at an early age--like most BS magicians,or heck, like most kids his age.

I find this image really disturbing.

What on earth was he experimenting his powers on? What could he be decomposing? What the hell was he playing with? He must have had enough practice considering he developed a lot of his techniques before he was even 6. And then there's the unstable nature of his existence--the safety of everyone around him is literally subject to his whims. Can you imagine a child, especially a child no one can ever consider normal to begin with, having access to godlike power?

As much as I like Tatsuya...I actually believe that the Yotsuba did the world good when they took away his emotions. The fact that he possess that kind of power meant that you cannot treat him as an ordinary human being because power changes the very nature of one's existence. The nature of Tatsuya's existence demands that action must be taken to keep him in control. No one was safe. If he got angry, if he got irrational, if he felt so strongly about something that he couldn't think objectively about it anymore...who's to stop him from destroying everything? And maybe at one point, this did happen. The Yotsuba were intent is sealing him from the start, hence why they originally raised Miyuki to keep him in check; but everything backfired when she began to grow closer with him.

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by Diocar

In that time frame i think he and miyuki will be too busy dealing with the reaction from the rest of the students when they find out they are yotsubas (maybe myiuki wil even be presented as the heir).
Can you imagine how tats will deal with ppl suddenly start avoiding miyuki because they are afraid or to flock to her because of her status? Besides the enemies she will suddenly gain by being known as a yotsuba? If there is a chance for romance it must be when things are calm, maybe after third year 9sc?

Consider she's his sister....she probably won't care. Besides, when that happens, the Yotsuba will probably pull her out and send her to the main house.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Lucarion

Yeah, I agree....removing his strong emotions and attachments might have been the entire point.

Look at what we have: a boy born with the ability to destroy and restore--basically play around with the concept of matter--he was also very intelligent which of course implies strong curiosity, so he began experimenting with his gifts at an early age--like most BS magicians,or heck, like most kids his age.

I find this image really disturbing.

What on earth was he experimenting his powers on? What could he be decomposing? What the hell was he playing with? He must have had enough practice considering he developed a lot of his techniques before he was even 6. And then there's the unstable nature of his existence--the safety of everyone around him is literally subject to his whims. Can you imagine a child, especially a child no one can ever consider normal to begin with, having access to godlike power?

As much as I like Tatsuya...I actually believe that the Yotsuba did the world good when they took away his emotions. The fact that he possess that kind of power meant that you cannot treat him as ordinary human being because power changes the very nature of one's existence. The nature of Tatsuya's existence demands that action must be taken to keep him in control. No one was safe. If he got angry, if he got irrational, if he felt so strongly about something that he couldn't think objectively about it anymore...who's to stop him from destroying everything? And maybe at one point, this did happen. The Yotsuba were intent is sealing him from the start, hence why they originally raised Miyuki to keep him in check; but everything backfired when she began to grow closer with him.

Hmm, maybe since his emotions were never changed but were simply removed means that he probably loved Miyuki even before he became a guardian and he got angry because the clan kept separating them from each other? There is no way that the clan didn't know about his powers till he was 6. Since it is birth magic, they were probably wary of him ever since he was born

[bietchie11]

I love how Tatsuya want to nuke the whole Mt. Fuuji to be free from problems.
No kill is over-kill with Tatsuya- the mad scientist.
Maya actually has more common sense than him lol.

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by IceHism

Hmm, maybe since his emotions were never changed but were simply removed means that he probably loved Miyuki even before he became a guardian and he got angry because the clan kept separating them from each other? There is no way that the clan didn't know about his powers till he was 6. Since it is birth magic, they were probably wary of him ever since he was born

That's a good point.^^

Also, I believe Miyuki and Tatsuya have always been close with each other, and that she might have something to do why he was subject to that experiment in the first place. Maybe Tatsuya was protecting her? But it turned into a huge mess. So they removed his emotions, and tampered with his memories, but here's another thing I don't understand: why did they do the same for Miyuki? We saw signs that her memory was played around with, and then there's the way she's always wanted to try and understand her brother even before he saved her. There's also the question why she won't dismiss him then even though she said she didn't really like him as much, and she couldn't quite grasp why she felt so concerned and conscious of his presence despite her being repeatedly told that she is to treat his as nothing more than her Guardian.

Wait...what if Miya actually kept his "fraternal love" because she knew how much her daughter meant to her son? Or how much her daughter is going to need a "big brother" to protect her in a cutthroat world? Maybe Tatsuya even begged her not to remove it. And she just came up with the Guardian excuse to justify her actions to the rest of the clan. If Tatsuya had no attachments whatsoever, then Tatsuya would really be just a tool. He'll follow orders and live his life as a tool, as long as the Yotsuba treated him decently, he'll have no reason to rebel. But because his mother let him keep something like his feelings for his sister, he at least had something to hold dear for himself.

Also, just throwing this out here, I think Miyuki's first words were Tatsuya related.

[Delftear]

Or go with Occam's razor, and like Miyuki frequently looses control when she gets super emotional, Tatsuya did the same thing when he was little. Except instead of turning the room into a freezer it started decomposing.

As for the feelings for Miyuki, Miya seemed to be confused about it herself and admitted it wasn't planned. I think that she just couldn't make herself destroy the bond between her children. Call it the last bit of humanity left in her.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Lucarion

That's a good point.^^

Also, I believe Miyuki and Tatsuya have always been close with each other, and that she might have something to do why he was subject to that experiment in the first place. Maybe Tatsuya was protecting her? But it turned into huge mess. So they removed his emotions, and tampered with his memories, but here's another thing I don't understand: why did they do the same for Miyuki? We saw signs that her memory was played around with, and then there's the way she's always wanted to try and understand her brother even before he saved her. There's also the question why she won't dismiss him then even though she said she didn't really like him as much, and she couldn't quite grasp why she felt so concerned and conscious of his presence despite her being repeatedly told that she is to treat his as nothing more than her Guardian.

Wait...what if Miya actually kept his "fraternal love" because she knew how much his sister meant to her son? Or how much her daughter is going to need a "big brother" to protect her in a cut-throat world? Maybe Tatsuya even begged her not to remove it. And she just came up with the Guardian excuse to justify her actions to the rest of the clan. If Tatsuya had no attachments whatsoever, then Tatsuya would really be just a tool. He'll follow orders and live his life as a tool, as long as the Yotsuba treated him decently, he'll have no reason to rebel. But because his mother let him keep something like his feelings for his sister, he at least had something to hold dear for himself.

Also, just throwing this out here, I think Miyuki's first words were Tatsuya related.

Hmm, I also believe that the two were really close before both of their memories were tampered with(to different degrees too, it seems like Miyuki had been altered more). While they can always remove the conscious memories in the mind, i don't think they can ever get rid of subconscious memory: muscle memory which is probably one of the reasons why Miyuki acted so Tsundere to Tatsuya and wanting to see his smile and everything.

Hmm, I wonder to what extent Miyuki had been changed during her childhood. That would be so nice to learn about

[hakazee]

Originally Posted by IceHism

We don't have a reason why right now so there is no point in trying to understand it right now

And Mitsugu is not only the head of the kuroba who are the intelligence division of yotsuba but also a direct cousin of miya and Maya. He definitely knows. There is absolutely no way that he doesn't.

"What is Maya-san thinking?" Mitsugu had completely lost his presence of mind and so ended up calling Maya 'Maya-san' despite being in the presence of his subordinate. "This is not the place of use that. Originally, that thing should not even be allowed outside.

If the Google translation is right.
So, Mitsugu still thinks there is a place to use " that thing ".

Maybe he don't care about his decomposition till Tatsuya can use Material Burst.

Yeah I think he's right, this is not the place of use "that".
They can use "that" in something like Da Han incident.


Still I don't understand between tool and weapon.
Tool is not allowed outside or what ?

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by IceHism

Hmm, I also believe that the two were really close before both of their memories were tampered with(to different degrees too, it seems like Miyuki had been altered more). While they can always remove the conscious memories in the mind, i don't think they can ever get rid of subconscious memory: muscle memory which is probably one of the reasons why Miyuki acted so Tsundere to Tatsuya and wanting to see his smile and everything.

Hmm, I wonder to what extent Miyuki had been changed during her childhood. That would be so nice to learn about

Yeah...I think it's going to be totally sweet and adorable. ^_^

Maybe, we'll even get a childhood promise cliche? XD

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by hakazee

If the Google translation is right.


Still I don't understand between tool and weapon.
Tool is not allowed outside or what ?

Tool and weapon literally mean the exact same thing in that context. The point of both words is to say that Tatsuya is below human and thus does not deserve human rights. Or it could be ironic and mean above human but i doubt it.

Originally Posted by Lucarion

Yeah...I think it's going to be totally sweet and adorable. ^_^

Maybe, we'll even get a childhood promise cliche? XD

haha, i wouldn't even be surprised if it was a "When we get older, lets marry each other!" promise with miyuki proposing to him first of course.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by hakazee

Maybe Kuroba and Maya fear that Tatsuya status as Mahesvara and Ooguro Ryuya will make the Yotsuba number one Public Enemy.

It's not even so much his identity that would do that, but the nature of how Yotsuba powered him up to the point where he can do all that he can do. They "created" him. That was their sin. But how many more of him did they create?

The problem is twofold. If the other master clans find about about his abilities and his identity as a Yotsuba, all the other 9 clans, the secondary 18, the hundred and the Japanese government (at least) will all be against them, and the only thing holding them back will be not knowing how many more of him they have hidden.

But if they find out the facts behind his "creation" and that Miya, now dead, was his "creator", there won't be anything keeping them from overwhelming Tatsuya, then wiping Yotsuba from the face of the earth.

[fujin of shadows]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

It's not even so much his identity that would do that, but the nature of how Yotsuba powered him up to the point where he can do all that he can do. They "created" him. That was their sin. But how many more of him did they create?

The problem is twofold. If the other master clans find about about his abilities and his identity as a Yotsuba, all the other 9 clans, the secondary 18, the hundred and the Japanese government (at least) will all be against them, and the only thing holding them back will be not knowing how many more of him they have hidden.

But if they find out the facts behind his "creation" and that Miya, now dead, was his "creator", there won't be anything keeping them from overwhelming Tatsuya, then wiping Yotsuba from the face of the earth.

You guys are seemingly underestimating the Yotsuba.....

Even without Tatsuya, the Yotsuba is a formidable clan, capable of starting World War 4....

The Ten Master Clans, the 18 assistant houses, even the hundred families and the Japanese government won't go against the Yotsuba knowing that the collateral damage would gravely weaken them...

Also, The Yotsuba destroyed a country in a year at the cause of a handful of their members...

Even without Tatsuya, the Yotsuba is a strong clan...Tatsuya is just their dragon, a very strong dragon...

[solhaz]

Originally Posted by Lucarion

Yeah, I agree....removing his strong emotions and attachments might have been the entire point.

Look at what we have: a boy born with the ability to destroy and restore--basically play around with the concept of matter--he was also very intelligent which of course implies strong curiosity, so he began experimenting with his gifts at an early age--like most BS magicians,or heck, like most kids his age.

I find this image really disturbing.

What on earth was he experimenting his powers on? What could he be decomposing? What the hell was he playing with? He must have had enough practice considering he developed a lot of his techniques before he was even 6. And then there's the unstable nature of his existence--the safety of everyone around him is literally subject to his whims. Can you imagine a child, especially a child no one can ever consider normal to begin with, having access to godlike power?

As much as I like Tatsuya...I actually believe that the Yotsuba did the world good when they took away his emotions. The fact that he possess that kind of power meant that you cannot treat him as an ordinary human being because power changes the very nature of one's existence. The nature of Tatsuya's existence demands that action must be taken to keep him in control. No one was safe. If he got angry, if he got irrational, if he felt so strongly about something that he couldn't think objectively about it anymore...who's to stop him from destroying everything? And maybe at one point, this did happen. The Yotsuba were intent is sealing him from the start, hence why they originally raised Miyuki to keep him in check; but everything backfired when she began to grow closer with him.

like Miyuki frequently looses control when she gets super emotional, Tatsuya did the same thing when he was little. Except instead of turning the room into a freezer it started decomposing.

As for the feelings for Miyuki, Miya seemed to be confused about it herself and admitted it wasn't planned. I think that she just couldn't make herself destroy the bond between her children. Call it the last bit of humanity left in her.

A possible theory; if Tatsuya really was like this in his childhood, no wonder Yotsuba fear him and did what they did to Tatsuya. Since Kuroba was the one who trained with him and taught him how to control his decomposing magic; maybe they’re the one who were traumatized the most by Tatsuya uncontrollable power.

I might be wrong but I think Miya actually decided to leave Tatsuya with one last emotion and Miya chose Miyuki to be the one since Miyuki could stay beside Tatsuya longer than her. Maybe Miya knows that doing that kind of experiment to Tatsuya, she don't feel she had any right to be called mother/family from Tatsuya. Yeah, I also called it the last bit humanity left in her

[fujin of shadows]

Originally Posted by solhaz

A possible theory; if Tatsuya really was like this in his childhood, no wonder Yotsuba fear him and did what they did to Tatsuya. Since Kuroba was the one who trained with him and taught him how to control his decomposing magic; maybe they’re the one who were traumatized the most by Tatsuya uncontrollable power.

I might be wrong but I think Miya actually decided to leave Tatsuya with one last emotion and Miya chose Miyuki to be the one since Miyuki could stay beside Tatsuya longer than her. Maybe Miya knows that doing that kind of experiment to Tatsuya, she don't feel she had any right to be called mother/family from Tatsuya. Yeah, I also called it the last bit humanity left in her

Humanity is such an overrated word..

Humanity is often forgotten for innovation...

I don't think Maya and Miya factored in their humanity when they operated on Tatsuya...I also think that Tatsuya kept that emotion (his love for Miyuki) in tack by himself, as if binding himself to a sense mortality

[Chris38]

You know ... this whole discussion about Tatsuya's operation ... has made me wonder about one thing...

What if ... Miyuki has been 'artificially created' in a desperate attempt of the Yotsuba clan to have a way of controlling the crystallization of their sin.

I'm aware that 'officially' there is only a year apart from Tatsuya's and Miyuki's age, but I also find it suspicious how a frail women like Miya managed to have two pregnancies with only about ... 3 months of difference between the time where her first pregnancy ended and the second one has started.

I'm also aware of the fact that artificially conceived magicians have a smaller life span then naturally born ones ... but the Yotsuba might also have equipment that is more advanced then what the rest of the world has got ... and ... finally, they might have been really desperate to make this attempt of controlling Tatsuya, succeed.

Not to mention ... it has been mentioned, in the spoilers for volume 13, that Minami is a stable 'artificially augmented magician' ... so it's not like there aren't any hints that suggest that Yotsuba's technology in creating artificial magicians is well developed...

Basically ... the Yotsuba have committed another sin ... in other to control their first sin...

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by Chris38

You know ... this whole discussion about Tatsuya's operation ... has made me wonder about one thing...

What if ... Miyuki has been 'artificially created' in a desperate attempt of the Yotsuba clan to have a way of controlling the crystallization of their sin.

I'm aware that 'officially' there is only a year apart from Tatsuya's and Miyuki's age, but I also find it suspicious how a frail women like Miya managed to have two pregnancies with only about ... 3 months of difference between the time where her first pregnancy ended and the second one has started.

I'm also aware of the fact that artificially conceived magicians have a smaller life span then naturally born ones ... but the Yotsuba might also have equipment that is more advanced then what the rest of the world has got ... and ... finally, they might have been really desperate to make this attempt of controlling Tatsuya, succeed.

Not to mention ... it has been mentioned, in the spoilers for volume 13, that Minami is a stable 'artificially augmented magician' ... so it's not like there aren't any hints that suggest that Yotsuba's technology in creating artificial magicians is well developed...

Basically ... the Yotsuba have committed another sin ... in other to control their first sin...

That could work...it does sound like something the Yotsuba might try. I've also entertained the idea that maybe the Shiba siblings were both born in a lab out of some strange, taboo Yotsuba experiment using Miya's genetic material. And that Miyuki was simply the more stable one of the two.

Maybe, the Shiba siblings were technically twins? Like born from the same batch. But Tatsuya "woke up" first, and when they saw he wasn't exactly what they're looking for, they put Miyuki online. This has a lot of holes, but still...the thought has crossed my mind before.

[millie10468]

Let's all come back from this little Kyle XY trip we took, okay?

[Lucarion]

Here's something I want to discuss: The possibility of a 3rd Shiba sibling.

Like Tatsurou having a daughter with Sayuri that he's desperately trying to keep out of Yotsuba eyes. I feel like this would be a nice development for the story and some of the side characters.

Also, I feel like this kind of a reveal would cast serious doubts on the nature of his feelings for Miyuki. Because assuming it was true, and it turns out Tatsuya has another sister, I have a feeling Tatsuya isn't going to feel anything more for her than any other girl. Which means his feelings are less "love for my sister" and more "love for Miyuki".