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Old 2021-08-24, 09:06   Link #1
marvelB
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One Piece - Chapter 1023 [manga]

Welcome to the weekly manga discussion thread for One Piece.

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It's that time again! Credit for the spoiler info goes to Redon and co. from AP:

-Chapter title is "As alike as two peas in a pod". Splash features Vivi and Carue.

-While King and Queen are down from Zoro and Sanji's respective strikes from last chapter, one of the Beast Pirates tries to snipe Zoro, but he gets taken out by Kawamatsu! As the all-stars get to their feet, virtually unhurt, Marco recalls Whitebeard telling him that a "land of gods" existed on the Red Line, long before Mariejois was founded. As the battle resumes, Sanji tells Zoro that his body began feeling strange ever since he used the raid suit for a second time. Queen taunts the cook, calling him a Germa cyborg, like the rest of Judge's children! Sanji argues that he's a complete human, but the all-star begs to differ.... because a "normal" human wouldn't be able to generate fire with their body alone. That is, unless they belong to the Lunaria race. In other words, Queen seems to strongly imply that Sanji shares the same blood as King's race!!!! However, he says it doesn't matter what Sanji is in the end, as he's facing a cyborg that Vegapunk can only dream of creating....!!!

-As for Zoro vs. King, the all-star uses a strange sword with combed edges, but doesn't just stick to swordplay, either. Hyougoro and Kawamatsu, who are also watching the battle unfold, note that Zoro reminds them of the former lord of the Ringo province, Shimotsuki Ushimaru. In fact, they're even reminded of the legendary ancestor of the same clan, Ryuma, who also had a scarred, one-eyed face! We then cut to Inuarashi vs. Jack, the latter of whom is finally in his hybrid form! Their fierce battle eventually takes them to the courtyard, where the clear, moonlit sky enables Inu to return to his Sulong form! Elsewhere outside the castle, Perospero is cornered by Nekomamushi.... who also goes Sulong. Back inside the castle, Raizou vs. Fukurokuju resumes. The Oniwabanshu leader says that Wano can't trust its leadership to a mere child, but Raizou argues that his lord shouldn't be underestimated by his youth alone, since people can still grow....

-Back on the mainland, Shinobu has finally granted Momo's wish: He is now an adult! More specifically, he's now age 28. What's more, he's now capable of transforming into a gigantic dragon! Luffy urges him to fly them back to Onigashima and take back the land of Wano....!!!!!

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Last edited by marvelB; 2021-08-26 at 13:33.
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Old 2021-08-24, 09:13   Link #2
marvelB
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Huh, interesting twist with Sanji there. While I'm usually not a fan of the whole secret powerful bloodline twist, I think I can let it slide this time because we knew from the beginning that Judge did gene manipulation experiments on his kids. Thus, Sanji wouldn't be a "pure" member of whatever race King represents. Still, in retrospect, it now makes way more sense why Big Mom was so interested in stealing Germa's tech at the wedding.... if if she can gene splice new DNA into her future kids, she can realize her dream of a multi-ethnic paradise without forcing any more of her kids into political marriages. Quite intriguing indeed, if you ask me....
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Old 2021-08-24, 11:38   Link #3
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The Lineage Factor coming back to explain the flames is nice and the power boost for Sanji by activating the dormant genmanipulation helps with the power progression for the current situation.
At one point the Ringo thing had to come up, probably only going to be very brief if it happens mid-fight.
Not a fan of Momonosuke losing 20 years of his life and the child within an adult body thing, but it was obvious from the point Shinobu's DF was revealed.
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Old 2021-08-24, 13:53   Link #4
Ramero
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Huh, interesting twist with Sanji there. While I'm usually not a fan of the whole secret powerful bloodline twist, I think I can let it slide this time because we knew from the beginning that Judge did gene manipulation experiments on his kids. Thus, Sanji wouldn't be a "pure" member of whatever race King represents. Still, in retrospect, it now makes way more sense why Big Mom was so interested in stealing Germa's tech at the wedding.... if if she can gene splice new DNA into her future kids, she can realize her dream of a multi-ethnic paradise without forcing any more of her kids into political marriages. Quite intriguing indeed, if you ask me....
I think it's like Halo 4 where the Librarian plants the genes inside the Master Chief's body and can only be activated under special circumstances, earning him resistance against the Composer. This could also affect Sanji as there could be some hidden genes inside him and it requires some conditions to awaken it.

In the Halo case, the Librarian awake Master Chief's dormant genes, while for Sanji, it could through some extreme conditions as well.
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Old 2021-08-24, 13:54   Link #5
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I actually thought about the Sanji/King thing after what Marco said last chapter, but dismissed it pretty quickly. Never expected Oda to bring it up right away.
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Old 2021-08-24, 15:18   Link #6
Ka-el
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the diable jambe is merely an effect created through friction to heat up and it was took by Pearl's principle of creating fire when he was in danger using that same foundation.
In fact Sanji's leg "fire" is more and effect, not an actual fire, if you recall at enies lobby his leg wasn't on fire, it was merely very hot to add a burning effect to his kicks.

I think that Oda merely used Diable Jambe fire as an excuse to have the argument about King's race brought up again after Marco mentioned it in the previous chapter, so then some flashback or explanation or both will happen in the next chapters. Sanji was 100% humans and Judge tested him multiple times to make sure of it, so it would be pointless to have him granted genetic modification after that, especially because he had to be human who was better than superhuman of his family just with his training. It's more acceptable if the raid suit gives him some power up that is not just invisibility, but not genetic, please...
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Old 2021-08-24, 15:21   Link #7
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Originally Posted by Galaxian View Post
I actually thought about the Sanji/King thing after what Marco said last chapter, but dismissed it pretty quickly. Never expected Oda to bring it up right away.
Zoro learned from Kin'emon how cut fire, King has a sword that he still has not used, King is the strongest after Kaido... .it was obvious it's Zoro the one who will deal with him. The point is that, in my opinion, Zoro won't even be full strenght because you can't just recover over 20 broken bones, I think it's more like what Ivankov did to Luffy at Impel Down and Marineford, otherwise it would not make sense that Zoro just doesn't use his final attack that he used against Kaido to finish the fight in one shot. However I think that it's possible that King reveal to have Haoshoku too and try to use it to scare Zoro and finally Zoro is able to unleash his own and so he finally confirms to himself that he has it.
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Old 2021-08-24, 15:35   Link #8
Ramero
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Originally Posted by Ka-el View Post
the diable jambe is merely an effect created through friction to heat up and it was took by Pearl's principle of creating fire when he was in danger using that same foundation.
In fact Sanji's leg "fire" is more and effect, not an actual fire, if you recall at enies lobby his leg wasn't on fire, it was merely very hot to add a burning effect to his kicks.

I think that Oda merely used Diable Jambe fire as an excuse to have the argument about King's race brought up again after Marco mentioned it in the previous chapter, so then some flashback or explanation or both will happen in the next chapters. Sanji was 100% humans and Judge tested him multiple times to make sure of it, so it would be pointless to have him granted genetic modification after that, especially because he had to be human who was better than superhuman of his family just with his training. It's more acceptable if the raid suit gives him some power up that is not just invisibility, but not genetic, please...
I'm most likely think that Sanji's genetic code was somehow dormant or went to slumber. A genetic code or modification that went inactive can't be noticed until its awakening.
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Old 2021-08-24, 16:45   Link #9
marvelB
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Originally Posted by Ka-el View Post
I think that Oda merely used Diable Jambe fire as an excuse to have the argument about King's race brought up again after Marco mentioned it in the previous chapter, so then some flashback or explanation or both will happen in the next chapters. Sanji was 100% humans and Judge tested him multiple times to make sure of it, so it would be pointless to have him granted genetic modification after that, especially because he had to be human who was better than superhuman of his family just with his training. It's more acceptable if the raid suit gives him some power up that is not just invisibility, but not genetic, please...
*Shrug* It may very well be the case that this Sanji twist is a retcon on Oda's part.... but again, I'm willing to let him off the hook for this due to the implications it has on the overall Lineage Factor plot thread. Actually, I recall we even had a discussion a while back about Sanji's siblings possibly having been infused with DF-based LFs. Now it looks like our cook friend may possess the LF of a special race, himself....

....And since we're on the subject of King's race, I'm now wondering if they're connected to that "Sun God Nika" that Who's Who brought up during his fight with Jinbei? I mean, Marco seems to imply that this race came from a "land of gods" on the Red Line (which I guess could technically apply to Mariejois, but still), and I don't think it would be hard to connect the sun to a clan capable of generating fire through their own bodies, so.....
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Old 2021-08-24, 16:46   Link #10
judasmartel
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Originally Posted by Ramero View Post
I'm most likely think that Sanji's genetic code was somehow dormant or went to slumber. A genetic code or modification that went inactive can't be noticed until its awakening.
Reminded me of Yusuke's Atavism of the Mazoku in YuYu Hakusho. Raizen's genetic code which went dormant and was only activated 44 generations later.
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Old 2021-08-24, 17:03   Link #11
Kanon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ka-el View Post
the diable jambe is merely an effect created through friction to heat up and it was took by Pearl's principle of creating fire when he was in danger using that same foundation.
In fact Sanji's leg "fire" is more and effect, not an actual fire, if you recall at enies lobby his leg wasn't on fire, it was merely very hot to add a burning effect to his kicks.

I think that Oda merely used Diable Jambe fire as an excuse to have the argument about King's race brought up again after Marco mentioned it in the previous chapter, so then some flashback or explanation or both will happen in the next chapters. Sanji was 100% humans and Judge tested him multiple times to make sure of it, so it would be pointless to have him granted genetic modification after that, especially because he had to be human who was better than superhuman of his family just with his training. It's more acceptable if the raid suit gives him some power up that is not just invisibility, but not genetic, please...
That's what Diable Jambe initially was, but you can't exclude a retcon. Besides, how do you explain Hell's memories? His whole body was on fire. That was probably him tapping into his true potential.
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Old 2021-08-25, 00:20   Link #12
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Not a fan of Momonosuke losing 20 years of his life and the child within an adult body thing, but it was obvious from the point Shinobu's DF was revealed.
Personally I don't see, what he gains by it. Technically he shouldn't be able to control his DF power better, just because he is older. Up until now the control of the powers was always a matter of training und it's not like Shinobu put him into some hyperbolic time chamber.
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Old 2021-08-25, 02:28   Link #13
OH&S
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I was talking about Sanji and his Diable Jambe not too long ago in the Chapter 1015 Discussion Thread:
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Originally Posted by OH&S View Post
While we're on this topic, I was always curious about Sanji's Diable Jambe. Oda has held off on providing an explanation about what it is aside from that one SBS question where he stated: "while Sanji's flames burn hot, his heart burns hotter" ...which appears to be a joke answer.

But is there something more to it given the fact that Sora made sure Sanji kept his emotions at the cost of the exoskeleton and supposed powers? It could also tie in to Sanji's fiery moment in Thriller Bark and the Hell Memories in Fishman Island.

Given Oda has recently tied Asura to Zoro's Haki, is he going expand further with Sanji as well? Or is this just another fleeting dream?
I'm pretty stoked about this. I knew there had to be something more to Sanji's apparent fire powers but I didn't think it would link into King and his lost fire-manipulation race. Makes me wish even more for that Sanji vs King fight (which by now is completely out of question).
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Old 2021-08-26, 13:39   Link #14
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My bad for taking a while, but summary updated! So, we got the name of King's race, the reveal of Jack's hybrid form (FINALLY, lol ), the return of the mink rulers' Sulong forms, and of course, dragon Momo. Though to be honest, I'm more interested in seeing his human adult body, since it seems strongly implied that he's a dead ringer for his father. It's probably gonna be a good while before we see his human form, though.... sorta like how it took some time before we first saw his original body at Punk Hazard. And of course, I also assume he'll have a badass hybrid form to reveal.....?
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Old 2021-08-26, 23:38   Link #15
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That's what Diable Jambe initially was, but you can't exclude a retcon. Besides, how do you explain Hell's memories? His whole body was on fire. That was probably him tapping into his true potential.
The canonic explanation was friction and for the whole body he himself answered that he doesn’t burn when he is on fire because is passion is burning hotter than the flames…it was merely a joke and now it should become a superpower? It’s like if they say that Luffy has regenerative LF because he always recover his teeth after he lost some in a fight just by drinking milk..
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Old 2021-08-27, 04:54   Link #16
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my guess the genetic start awekening after sanji use the raid suit for the 1st time..thats why judge think that sanji just a normal person because he didnt let sanji use the raid suit when he is small


and let be honest normal person cant make the damn fire use foot and this is so fuckinh weird when i watched one piece at that time when they show sanji fire foot
me like :yo sanji is a normal guy right what the hell is that...and the shoes didnt get burned...
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Old 2021-08-27, 07:31   Link #17
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Originally Posted by Ka-el View Post
The canonic explanation was friction and for the whole body he himself answered that he doesn’t burn when he is on fire because is passion is burning hotter than the flames…it was merely a joke and now it should become a superpower? It’s like if they say that Luffy has regenerative LF because he always recover his teeth after he lost some in a fight just by drinking milk..
I don't like it either, but that's how it is.

For that matter, I don't like Zoro being pretty much revealed to be a Shimotsuki too. Why does everyone need to be special? Oh and my guess is that he's actually the son of Koushirou's sister, assuming he has/had one. Better than him being an illegitimate son of Koushirou.
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Old 2021-08-27, 09:12   Link #18
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The canonic explanation was friction and for the whole body he himself answered that he doesn’t burn when he is on fire because is passion is burning hotter than the flames…it was merely a joke and now it should become a superpower?
When you go back and re-read early One Piece (the first 300 chapters), you pick up on the fact that Oda constructs his story by leaving noticeable gaps in regards to explanation so he can fill them in later to make it look like one seamless story. Things like:
  • the blank 10 years of Luffy growing up and skipping his actual departure from the village. (Covered in his Luffy's flashback.)
  • Sanji already being on the ship Zeff attacked and then the whole thing about him being born in North Blue. (Covered in Sanji's second flashback).
  • Yosaku's explanation about Jinbe releasing Arlong into East Blue. (Covered in the Fishman Island flashback).
  • Zoro's method for cutting through steel. (Ryuo)
Sanji's Diable Jambe was the same. The initial explanation of the friction causing the flames in Sanji's first use of Diable Jambe is still valid. But Oda's explanation of Sanji not being hurt by the flames in the SBS (and parroted in this very chapter) was suspect after the timeskip. Sanji straight up used Diable Jambe underwater; ain't no friction there. And with Hell Memories and thereafter, it appeared the flames themselves were responding to Sanji's feelings. Then we get to Whole Cake Island and learn about Judge's manipulation of the Lineage Factor as well as Sora's efforts to protect Sanji's emotions. At this point, Sanji's Diable Jambe was highly suspect.

The only point against this line of reasoning is the lack of mention it received in the Whole Cake Island Arc. But it looks like its being brought up now.

At what point can we really call it a retcon?

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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
For that matter, I don't like Zoro being pretty much revealed to be a Shimotsuki too. Why does everyone need to be special? Oh and my guess is that he's actually the son of Koushirou's sister, assuming he has/had one.
Can you explain to me what makes being a Shimotsuki so special?
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Old 2021-08-27, 09:44   Link #19
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Makes me wonder what King’s race really is. 🤔
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Old 2021-08-27, 18:48   Link #20
Kanon
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Can you explain to me what makes being a Shimotsuki so special?
Super strong samurai genes, obviously. Can you explain to me what the point of making Zoro a Shimotsuki is?
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