[MANGA] Bleach Chapter 339 Discussion

[Kakashi]

After Allon's defeat I actually suspected we'd be swinging back to HM very soon. All the fraccion (except for Lilinette who is reserved for Yachiru) are defeated. And there's really no point in continuing the higher level espada fights without seeing what's going on with Ulquiorra.

Originally Posted by aliasxn

Ichigo got his bankai in three days and learned shunpo on Byakuya's level on the way from the training site to the soukyoku. Why are people still so skeptical?

Ichigo beat Byakuya in sequence of distinct stages. The first time he fought him, he didn't know what hit him, literally. The second time they met, Ichigo could at least follow Byakuya's movement, although he would have lost badly if the fight had continued for a few seconds longer. The third and final time he matched Byakuya by obtaining bankai. While Byakuya's blade was shattered, he was in decent condition since he could still shunpo. Ichigo was pretty much immobile and relied on his sword to stand up and maintain any sort of posture, so Byakuya could easily have performed a kidou spell and finished him off, but he chose not to because Ichigo 'shattered his sword with his resolve'. In other words it was a mental victory and Byakuya respected that. In a way, Byakuya was always going to be the easiest captain to overcome since deep down Byakuya didn't want Rukia to be executed.

The difference with Ulquiorra seems to be that Ichigo has no apparent power ups to rely on. His hollow mode is strong but Ulquiorra managed brush it off in his unreleased form. Furthermore, he seems to have no strings attatched to the source of Ichigo's resolve in this case, Orihime. That said, the basis of their rivalry is Orihime and that could develop. Right now though, Ichigo is pissed at him for sullying her reputation and Ulquiorra just wants Ichigo to die.

[tensashinigami]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

I cant post much due to say lack of resources . But here goes

i'm sure they are going to change that in the anime; since, they made her jacket longer to cover the lower part of her chest.

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by AkatsukisApprentice

Quite an interesting choice of colours. Do you think she really has that colour skin, if you see the face off on the following panel, you can notice she would probably be a much darker colour skin compared to hitsugaya's colour.

Anyway, very cool and nicely made art work!

She is dark skinned in anime and she is dark skinned in picture...Do you want to make her even darker?

[MidnightViper88]

Originally Posted by AkatsukisApprentice

Quite an interesting choice of colours. Do you think she really has that colour skin, if you see the face off on the following panel, you can notice she would probably be a much darker colour skin compared to hitsugaya's colour

It's called a difference in tone; Grayscale works funny in comparison to color...

[cloak_and_dagger]

Originally Posted by Langus

Okay, I could be remembering this wrong, but when Ulquiorra first reported back to Aizen about Ichigo's powers (this was right after the Yammy/Orihime pimp-slap heh) Aizen said "show your 20 brothers and sisters what you've seen" (or something along those lines).

This was right after Hitsugaya estimated that if Aizen had even 10 Vasto Lorde level hollows under his command SS was finished.

If we guestimate that the first 10 "brothers and sisters" were the espada, then it's entirely possible that there are still 10 vasto lorde that have yet to be introduced. That would certainly explain Aizen's cool confidence that he won't have to lift a finger to win.

I think Hav0kkx's got it right.

They could aslp be the fraccion...remember Shawlong was in the same assembly hall?

I'm counting Shawlong, Edorad, Ilforte, Lilinette, D-Roy, 3 Halibel fraccion, Tesla and Apache. I don't think they are any more, so that's 10 there.


BTW, I'm really hoping by some flaw that I'm wrong here.

[cloak_and_dagger]

Originally Posted by Langus

Okay, I could be remembering this wrong, but when Ulquiorra first reported back to Aizen about Ichigo's powers (this was right after the Yammy/Orihime pimp-slap heh) Aizen said "show your 20 brothers and sisters what you've seen" (or something along those lines).

This was right after Hitsugaya estimated that if Aizen had even 10 Vasto Lorde level hollows under his command SS was finished.

If we guestimate that the first 10 "brothers and sisters" were the espada, then it's entirely possible that there are still 10 vasto lorde that have yet to be introduced. That would certainly explain Aizen's cool confidence that he won't have to lift a finger to win.

I think Hav0kkx's got it right.

They could aslp be the fraccion...remember Shawlong was in the same assembly hall?

I'm counting Shawlong, Edorad, Ilforte, Lilinette, D-Roy, 3 Halibel fraccion, Tesla and Vega. I don't think they are any more, so that's 10 there.


BTW, I'm really hoping by some flaw that I'm wrong here.

[MidnightViper88]

"20 brothers" doesn't necessarily hint that there are 10 Vasto Lorde alongside the 10 Espada...For one thing, Ulquiorra would've been reporting to 8 of the Espada (Assuming all 10 Espada were present, as only Halibel, Ulquiorra, Grimmjow, and Yammy were explicitly shown), minus Ulquiorra himself and Yammy who had accompanied Ulquiorra to the real world...If the assumption that the 10 Espada were present, you'd still have all of Grimmjow's Fraccion (He has 5, but only 2 are explicitly shown) and at least 2 other explicitly shown Arrancar...

Assuming all 10 Espada are present, Grimmjow's 5 Fraccion, and the 2 other Arrancar, that's a head count of 17 at the very most...If we go only on what was explicitly shown, you have 4 Espada, 2 of Grimmjow's Fraccion, and the other 2 Arrancar, and that's a known head count of 8...If you take out Ulquiorra and Yammy from the "20 brothers" equation, that's a known head count of 6...

It can be divvied up in many ways with only assumptions filling in the rest, but it still doesn't necessarily mean that any Vasto Lorde are present in the first place...

[Mr. DJ]

Originally Posted by tensashinigami

i'm sure they are going to change that in the anime; since, they made her jacket longer to cover the lower part of her chest.

she unzips her jacket though

[Langus]

Yeah, she'll unzip her jacket and those hand nipple covers will just extend down across the rest of her chest. If we're lucky we'll get a half boob animated...

[Mr. DJ]

I look forward to being disappointed

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by Kakashi

The difference with Ulquiorra seems to be that Ichigo has no apparent power ups to rely on. His hollow mode is strong but Ulquiorra managed brush it off in his unreleased form. Furthermore, he seems to have no strings attatched to the source of Ichigo's resolve in this case, Orihime. That said, the basis of their rivalry is Orihime and that could develop. Right now though, Ichigo is pissed at him for sullying her reputation and Ulquiorra just wants Ichigo to die.

For this reason I think we are going to see Ichigo get a power up by powering up his resolve to save Orihime and Karakura, and overwhelms Ulquiorra a bit before he starts questioning Ulquiorra's reason for fighting, Ulquiorra finds his own resolve launches full throttle attacks in his unreleased form beating Ichigo. Then Orihime is going to do something to try and stop Ulquiorra then Orihime strengthens her resolve after seeing Ichigo realizes deaths are sometimes necessary and Kubo finds a way to make Ichigo and Orihime stronger in one blow! But then again Kubo isn't that good at writing in depth storylines or mental fights therefore Ichigo will probably just get hax.

[MidnightViper88]

Originally Posted by Langus

Yeah, she'll unzip her jacket and those hand nipple covers will just extend down across the rest of her chest. If we're lucky we'll get a half boob animated...

They've shown a full-body completely nude Yoruichi, fuzzing out only the important parts...As long as Halibel keeps her clothes on (And the animation team knows their limit given their show's timeslot), I don't see it posing a problem...

[aliasxn]

Originally Posted by Kakashi

Ichigo beat Byakuya in sequence of distinct stages. The first time he fought him, he didn't know what hit him, literally. The second time they met, Ichigo could at least follow Byakuya's movement, although he would have lost badly if the fight had continued for a few seconds longer. The third and final time he matched Byakuya by obtaining bankai. While Byakuya's blade was shattered, he was in decent condition since he could still shunpo. Ichigo was pretty much immobile and relied on his sword to stand up and maintain any sort of posture, so Byakuya could easily have performed a kidou spell and finished him off, but he chose not to because Ichigo 'shattered his sword with his resolve'. In other words it was a mental victory and Byakuya respected that. In a way, Byakuya was always going to be the easiest captain to overcome since deep down Byakuya didn't want Rukia to be executed.

The difference with Ulquiorra seems to be that Ichigo has no apparent power ups to rely on. His hollow mode is strong but Ulquiorra managed brush it off in his unreleased form. Furthermore, he seems to have no strings attatched to the source of Ichigo's resolve in this case, Orihime. That said, the basis of their rivalry is Orihime and that could develop. Right now though, Ichigo is pissed at him for sullying her reputation and Ulquiorra just wants Ichigo to die.

What I meant was it is not unprecedented for Ichigo to show huge improvements in short time spans. His hollow form has been implied to be incredibly powerful, Ulquiorra already said that Ichigo's reiatsu is even greater than his if only he could control it... Kubo has been preparing us for this for a long time now. It's gonna feel hax when we see it, but that ship has sailed anyway… Ichigo x Aizen will be a tough one to explain, though. He’s already been given all the divine interventions a character can get (bankai in 3 days, shunpo in 15 minutes, vaizard…) and it is still gonna take all he’s got to beat Ulquiorra, who is probably half as strong as Stark, who is probably half as strong as Aizen. Since the big fights in Bleach are always 1x1, Kubo is gonna have his hands full trying to come up with something minimally reasonable…

[Langus]

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

They've shown a full-body completely nude Yoruichi, fuzzing out only the important parts...As long as Halibel keeps her clothes on (And the animation team knows their limit given their show's timeslot), I don't see it posing a problem...

Awe, I wish. That was years ago with a different time slot. They've got more stringent network regulations breathing down the animators' necks now. As much as I'd like to believe that we'll get some nice Halibel boobage when the time comes, judging by the Nel example I just don't see it happening.

[bleachnut]

Originally Posted by Enishi316

Ichigo will win some how win his which will make no seance at all considering he just barely beat grimmjow.Meaning no way he could of took on #5...so how is he suppose to beat #4...Is Ichigo a saying..maybe his father is really goku seeing he gets stronger after ever battle when he comes close to death....lets move on
#3 VS Hitsugaya i kinda see Soi Fong stepping in to Finish that fight and finally showing her Banki same for the other too Captain sick and Captain lazy
#2 VS Ukitake = Banki
#1 VS Kyouraku = Banki

BTW!!!
Where are the Vizards!!! I really see them joining in for the fight with Aizen, Gin and Tousen.

Okay how do you know Ichi couldn't take on #5 being fully healed? Haven't you noticed how with each fight he goes through, his mask lasts longer? With each battle, Ichigo grows. That's all there is to it, I thought it was explained well enough.

Originally Posted by aliasxn

Ichigo got his bankai in three days and learned shunpo on Byakuya's level on the way from the training site to the soukyoku. Why are people still so skeptical?

Ah, but that was all because he wanted to save Rukia. In fact, Rukia has been directly involved with every one of his power up abilities, as far as I can tell. Plus, Ichigo tells Byakuya straight out that he gained his power for Rukia's sake, and he didn't go to control his hollow until AFTER Rukia became injured, and in his own time, he's recently seen Rukia alive and well. I do hope that if Ichigo displays some new power, it, like the rest, would be tied in with Rukia in some way, shape, or form.

[MidnightViper88]

Minor correction there, though...

Ichigo's resolve to save Rukia is what pushed him with regaining his shinigami powers and then obtaining bankai, while his resolve to protect Chad and Orihime (Especially Orihime) is what pushed him to control his inner hollow and gain Visored powers...

Rukia's already been the damsel in distress; Orihime is the new princess at the top of the tower, which is why Ichigo is engaging Ulquiorra now...

[Lunarskylar]

personally kubo could pull a nice twist by pulling a jinchuuriki moment
(i don't know how many parallels i've drawn to naruto controlling his kyuubi and ichigo suppressing his hollow already)
Ichigo goes in himself, finds shirosaki and tells him that his resolve is so strong, he knows he can't do this alone
hell, it'd be even better if he goes, I know I hae no chance against this guy, not even plotkai can save me
and Shirosaki's all, "But you realize that I > plotkai, and want me to take over"

then we have a battle of the make up wearing paleheads!
then ulquiorra will be all... yuo're pale too? now this fight is personal, there can only be 1 pale shinigami-hollow badass hybrid in this show

[bleachnut]

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

Minor correction there, though...

Ichigo's resolve to save Rukia is what pushed him with regaining his shinigami powers and then obtaining bankai, while his resolve to protect Chad and Orihime (Especially Orihime) is what pushed him to control his inner hollow and gain Visored powers...

Rukia's already been the damsel in distress; Orihime is the new princess at the top of the tower, which is why Ichigo is engaging Ulquiorra now...

Ichigo didn't take the initiative to control his hollow powers after Inoue & Sado were hurt, it wasn't until after Grimmjow punched holes in Rukia, and then we get the Ichi tender face at Rukia, that he goes and gets his resolve to control his hollow. ONLY after Rukia got hurt. The offer was made prior to that, and ONLY Rukia getting hurt motivated him to take the final step and go control his hollow.

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by tensashinigami

i'm sure they are going to change that in the anime; since, they made her jacket longer to cover the lower part of her chest.

er.. she's not dark, she's a sandy colored. Go back and watch the Grimm fight, she has an arabian type of tone.

[MidnightViper88]

Originally Posted by bleachnut

Ichigo didn't take the initiative to control his hollow powers after Inoue & Sado were hurt, it wasn't until after Grimmjow punched holes in Rukia, and then we get the Ichi tender face at Rukia, that he goes and gets his resolve to control his hollow. ONLY after Rukia got hurt. The offer was made prior to that, and ONLY Rukia getting hurt motivated him to take the final step and go control his hollow.

My memory's leaking...We're both right...Although it could be argued that Ichigo's resolve to protect both Orihime and Rukia after their respective pimp-slaps and stabs is what drove Ichigo to obtain his Visored powers, it was really Ichigo's personal frustration with his inner hollow interfering with his progress in the middle of battle...

Round one: Yammy rips Chad's arm off and threatens to kill Orihime too...Ichigo comes in strong and nearly defeats Yammy with ease driven by his resolve to protect his friends, but falls short when his inner hollow tries to take over Ichigo's body, leaving him open for an ass-whooping and Orihime for a facial reconstruction...That leaves Ichigo depressed about not being able to save his friends until Rukia gets his drive back up by motivating him, where Rukia also tries to convince Ichigo to fight his inner hollow...Before this, Ichigo had just met Shinji was was introduced to the Visored...

Round two: Grimmjow and Friends lead their own mini-assault on Karakura Town by targeting Ichigo and Co....Rukia is left with a critical injury by Grimmjow and Ichigo engages him...By using his black Getsuga Tensho while in Bankai, Ichigo was able to inflict some damage on Grimmjow, but the use of a technique originally created by his inner hollow gave it another chance to try to take over Ichigo's body, where 2 or 3 more uses of that attack would've been the limit before the hollow would gain control again...Feeling he had failed to protect his friends the second time in a row, Ichigo finally goes to the Visored to tame his inner hollow...

So really, it was Ichigo believing he had failed to protect his friends Chad, Orihime, and Rukia during both consecutive Arrancar contacts, but also the frustration that he couldn't continue to fight on his own accord without first controlling his inner hollow...