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Old 2017-03-09, 15:40   Link #121
SleepingTerror
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Relistening to Thrilling One Way.. Holy I hope we get more songs like this.

edit: It kinda reminds me of a mix between Lily White and Guilty Kiss?
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Old 2017-03-09, 22:40   Link #122
novalysis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post

The more serious complaint is the fact that the available two minutes sound more like a trio song with six backup singers than a nine person song. If the rest of the song follows the same structure, this would set a bad precedent for the remaining center-vote songs.
Certainly, if they want to convey a happy message, then the range of music genres they can play around in is limited to a certain extent. But the actual content of my concern here is that HPT indicates that Aqours would play it quite safe with the Next-Step, in contrast to the last few BD songs - that's why suggestions that HPT carries the same vibes as a Muse song is concerning to me, from the standpoint of Aqours distinguishing themselves from Muse

That being said, I do agree that your complaint about HPT has merit. If we look down at the numbers, we have VERY long solos, even by sub-unit standards.

Suwawa solo: 0:22 -0:44 - 22 Seconds
Aikyan Solo: 0:45 - 1:06 - 21 Seconds
King Solo: 1:07 - 1:19- 12 Seconds

Now, the big issue I think isn't so much that the Center get's a long solo, but rather, the next top two performers in the polls also get similarly long solos. It makes me wonder whether this is a one-off event due to how narrowly Suwawa (Kanan) beat out Aikayan (Yohane) in the Center Elections or part of a longer trend.

I'm less concerned that the Centers get long solos, because it seems to me that the Aqours fanbase has more or less a broad consensus that girls who already won the Center shouldn't be winning the Center twice in a row. If You, for example, appears to be winning the Fourth Single Center, it's very likely the "no two centers in a row" crowd would simply rally around the second most likely person to win the elections.

The big issue here, though, is when the top three performers in the elections get a disproportionate amount of Solos. There are certain girls that have a very high chance of at least making it to the top three (You, Yohane, Hanamaru) in any poll, and other girls with next to zero chance (the gem sisters, Dia and Ruby).

And the problem get's worse if there are always certain very popular girls who always make it to the top three, but can't quite win the center. Hanamaru and Yohane are probably the two most prominent examples right now, and the longer they don't win the Center, the longer they'd remain in the top three because these girls have rather.... huge and fanatical fanbases. In part, it's because King and Aikyan have two of the best voices in Aqours.... which basically means that the part of their fanbase who love their singing is basically locked in for what is probably most of the lifespan of Aqours.

In all probability, if the First Live produces a Riko victory for the next election, she's probably going to be joined by Hanamaru or Yohane in the top three, unless the anime's second season radically rearranges the popularity of Aqours characters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laevatein View Post
I'd guess that Guilty Kiss' popularity is because their material is different to the typical Love Live fare and has more of an edge, thus drawing in people who wouldn't consider themselves fans of the show, or idol anime in general.
Thanks for replying. Yes, I thought of that possibility too, and certainly, Guilty Kiss is the one sub-unit with an excellent chance of receiving mainstream J-Pop attention because of how atypical Guilty Kiss is for Love Live and possibly most Idol groups. As well as the fact that their music seems deliberately modeled after the kinds of music that are likely to top the charts in the recent pop scene.

But I am not certain whether Guilty Kiss has received that outside-Idol anime attention yet. I don't think Lantis has been marketing Guilty Kiss outside of the Love Live context, and Guilty Kiss entire setup DOES run the risk of alienating more orthodox minded Love Live fans.

We also have to remember that youtube view counts do take into account repeated views from the same Ip address after a cooldown of around 6-8 hours (though the weight repeated views bring to view count is unknown). To me, it suggests to me that Guilty Eyes Fever is simply more streamable as a song that you might return to listening every day rather than Ps Musou.

I do think the stunning popularity of Guilty Kiss is a topic that deserves more discussion. Is it because the Aqours fanbase, especially those coming over from Muse demands innovation and novelty, and Guilty Kiss delivers while CyaRon promises more of the same? Is it because Guilty Kiss is seen as the successor of Bibi among large portions of the sub-unit following fanbase and it is Bibi fans (by the way, Bibi songs at the end of Muse's lifespan were out streaming their other sub-units by large margins, though GK's margin is even larger) literally transferring their loyalty to Guilty Kiss as worthy successor in a way the other sub-units might not be doing ? Is it, as you have said, because Guilty Kiss is actually managing to hook in fans from outside the Idol fandom, most likely from the EDM and larger J-pop fanbase?

The third possibility suggests that Love Live and Lantis has a potential Baby-metal situation on their hand with Guilty Kiss - a sub-unit that can potentially make it as a big major J-pop group even if spun-off from the main unit. Babymetal was basically once a sub-unit of an Idol Group called Sakura Gakuin... that became big on it's own. But until Gk singles actually start beating or coming close to matching Aqours animated singles in sales, the extent GK is drawing fans outside the Idol fanbase is probably not clear.

I'd like to know if anyone else here have any other thoughts on this matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepingTerror View Post
Relistening to Thrilling One Way.. Holy I hope we get more songs like this.

edit: It kinda reminds me of a mix between Lily White and Guilty Kiss?
We need more songs like Thrilling One Way. It's my opinion that these kinds of hard rock songs really bring out the strength of many of Aqours singers compared to the normal kinds of songs Aqours does - Aikyan is one huge beneficiary, but so to are other singers like Suwawa, Ainya and Shuuka.

Which is my concern with HPT. It feels like a step back from Thrilling One Way.
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Old 2017-03-10, 01:30   Link #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
EDIT: I've thought about it and compared it to a few Muse songs, and an idea I had since the first time I played the two songs back to back remains. Back in ep2, Chika said she wanted to make a song like Yume no Tobira and Happy Party Train's first two minutes really give me the same feeling as Yume no Tobira.
Yume no Tobira from Happy Party Train? Honestly I don't feel it. If you look outside of Love Live and go towards idolm@ster, HPT reminds me a bit of Hoshikuzu no Symphonia. Also, these singles don't exist in the anime canon (yet).

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
And the problem get's worse if there are always certain very popular girls who always make it to the top three, but can't quite win the center. Hanamaru and Yohane are probably the two most prominent examples right now, and the longer they don't win the Center, the longer they'd remain in the top three because these girls have rather.... huge and fanatical fanbases. In part, it's because King and Aikyan have two of the best voices in Aqours.... which basically means that the part of their fanbase who love their singing is basically locked in for what is probably most of the lifespan of Aqours.
You're thinking too much into it. Umi from the OG never once got a centre song. Mimorin was hugely a more popular seiyuu before she was cast into Love Live, and was a far better singer from the start. If anything, the fanbase can be unpredictable.

Quote:
Is it because Guilty Kiss is seen as the successor of Bibi among large portions of the sub-unit following fanbase and it is Bibi fans (by the way, Bibi songs at the end of Muse's lifespan were out streaming their other sub-units by large margins, though GK's margin is even larger) literally transferring their loyalty to Guilty Kiss as worthy successor in a way the other sub-units might not be doing?
It was at the start, but once the fans got round to understanding the dynamics of the group based on things like the anime, magazines, radio drama, short stories etc..., Guilty Kiss became a different beast altogether. I mean you have 2 eccentric girls and 1 girl who is the only voice of reason forming the group. It helps that the songs they were given hit it off with the group's theme and dynamic.

Quote:
We need more songs like Thrilling One Way. It's my opinion that these kinds of hard rock songs really bring out the strength of many of Aqours singers compared to the normal kinds of songs Aqours does - Aikyan is one huge beneficiary, but so to are other singers like Suwawa, Ainya and Shuuka.
Eh honestly I won't want that to be a repeat. If anything, Thrilling One Way sounds too much like a typical anime song even if the song is fantastic.
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Old 2017-03-10, 01:40   Link #124
Laevatein
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Another possibility regarding Guilty Kiss' popularity: Given that the current idol boom has been going on for a while now, maybe it's a sign that audiences are ready to move on to something else? If you've watched Viga's Idols of Anime series on Youtube, in one episode she talks about the end of the Golden Age of Idols in the 80s, and how J-Pop was supplanted by J-Rock in the 90s. Maybe something similar might happen in the late 2010s? We know that musical trends come and go, and the current idol boom has to end sooner or later.
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Old 2017-03-10, 02:22   Link #125
SleepingTerror
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The genre Guilty Kiss covers is rather popular. I agree with Laevatein - times are changing, these kinds of songs are more popular now. I don't think the idol trend is going to end (like, ever) but they're moving on from sugary pop to pop rock, even pop metal.
HPT doesn't worry me, I hope they push for variety rather than a complete makeover. That being said.. CYaRon does worry me ^^' They could use more variety. Still feels a lot like Printemps with different voices.
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Old 2017-03-10, 03:48   Link #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepingTerror View Post
The genre Guilty Kiss covers is rather popular. I agree with Laevatein - times are changing, these kinds of songs are more popular now. I don't think the idol trend is going to end (like, ever) but they're moving on from sugary pop to pop rock, even pop metal.
HPT doesn't worry me, I hope they push for variety rather than a complete makeover. That being said.. CYaRon does worry me ^^' They could use more variety. Still feels a lot like Printemps with different voices.
I don't think idols will disappear, but they may fade into the background for a while, until they get repackaged.
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Old 2017-03-10, 03:55   Link #127
novalysis
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Thanks for all the responses!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nork22 View Post

You're thinking too much into it. Umi from the OG never once got a centre song. Mimorin was hugely a more popular seiyuu before she was cast into Love Live, and was a far better singer from the start. If anything, the fanbase can be unpredictable.
I'm not talking about so much who makes it to the Center - that's probably quite unpredictable. I'm talking about who is more likely to make it to the top three on a routine basis if indeed HPT indicates that the top 3 performers in Center elections are going to get out-sized roles during the Next Stage phase of Aqours.

And that is subjected to quite a bit less unpredictability I think because the issue now becomes whether and how likely a singer is to make it to the top three. You'd probably have to show that Mimorin basically was no more likely to make it to the top three in Center Elections than Muse seiyuu usually thought off as less popular to use that example to debunk my point, since my point was not "who is going to win center". Rather, the problematic thing about the top three getting outsized roles in singles if HPT signals a start of a trend, is that some Seiyuus will likely consistently end up in the top three, and others stand no chance.

Quote:
It was at the start, but once the fans got round to understanding the dynamics of the group based on things like the anime, magazines, radio drama, short stories etc..., Guilty Kiss became a different beast altogether. I mean you have 2 eccentric girls and 1 girl who is the only voice of reason forming the group. It helps that the songs they were given hit it off with the group's theme and dynamic.
It is true the group dynamics of Guilty Kiss is very different from Bibi. Not only that, the characterization of the two girls (one is a Chuuni dressed in goth who believes herself to be a fallen angel, and another is a rich eccentric half-gaijin metal-head troll) permits Guilty Kiss to cultivate that edgy/cool image they did, and plunge right into Hard Rock and Hard EDM without compromise.

It is also helped by the fact that Guilty Kiss has very distinct voices from their Bibi counterparts - no-one is going to confuse Yohane for Maki or Mari for Eli or Nico. And because Guilty Kiss liberates their Seiyuus not to sing in a moe cutsie manner, those distinct voices makes Guilty Kiss sound nothing at all like Bibi.

Still, I do see people making comparisons to Bibi, especially in Guilty Kiss Guilty Night and Guilty Eyes Fever - which personally feels strange to me, since these two songs are far more deeper into EDM than Bibi ever ventured. But it does seem to indicate that at the least as I think you have suggested (correct me if I misunderstand), that while the association of GK with Bibi at least helped kicked off the initial gap in popularity between GK and the other sub-units, the chasm that might be emerging between GK and the rest are rooted in GK's very distinct, edgier, cooler, pseudo-Chuuni identity.

I've seen quite a few comparisons to A-RISE too. Perhaps Guilty Kiss is the EDM style sub-unit in the spirit of A-RISE that Muse never quite had.

Quote:
Eh honestly I won't want that to be a repeat. If anything, Thrilling One Way sounds too much like a typical anime song even if the song is fantastic.
I didn't mean I wanted clones of Thrilling One Way. Rather, I was expressing my hope that Thrilling One Way represents Aqours daring to be as adventurous as they have been in the final BDs songs of Step Zero to One during the Next Stage. Furthermore, the genre that Thrilling One Way is set in, Hard rock is a diverse genre in itself. So, more accurately, my hope is that Aqours explores that particular genre. To me, that exploration does not entail a risk of a repeat, because of the diversity of that genre. The same applies by the way for G Senjou and Daydream Warriors. More hard EDM, and more full out Jazz will be very welcomed, and I think will go a long way for Aqours to further build a richer musical identity that is distinct from Muse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laevatein View Post
Another possibility regarding Guilty Kiss' popularity: Given that the current idol boom has been going on for a while now, maybe it's a sign that audiences are ready to move on to something else? If you've watched Viga's Idols of Anime series on Youtube, in one episode she talks about the end of the Golden Age of Idols in the 80s, and how J-Pop was supplanted by J-Rock in the 90s. Maybe something similar might happen in the late 2010s? We know that musical trends come and go, and the current idol boom has to end sooner or later.
I think you've raised a fascinating point. Perhaps the creators of Babymetal are far-sighted indeed and read ahead of the curve with the concept of Kawaii-Metal - it is the future. The audiences are changing. And similarly, Guilty Kiss is further ahead of the current music zeitgeist than Cya-Ron or AZALEA. Though I agree with Sleeping Terror - this is not necessarily an end of Idol boom, but an indication of where Idol Music is heading, or rather, what Idol Music must adapt to in order to thrive.

It's also quite possible that GK music, for whatever reason is far more "streamable" than the other sub-units in the sense that it's the kind of music streamers will return to on a daily basis. And this is probably connected to both the current zeitgeist of pop music as well as the advent of music streaming affecting the way music is consumed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepingTerror View Post
The genre Guilty Kiss covers is rather popular. I agree with Laevatein - times are changing, these kinds of songs are more popular now. I don't think the idol trend is going to end (like, ever) but they're moving on from sugary pop to pop rock, even pop metal.
HPT doesn't worry me, I hope they push for variety rather than a complete makeover. That being said.. CYaRon does worry me ^^' They could use more variety. Still feels a lot like Printemps with different voices.
I actually wonder whether Guilty Kiss will make the jump into Pop-metal and how will the group will fare if they ventured into that territory. Strawberry Trapper seems to hint at amazing things to come if GK does into that territory.

I agree with you that the Idol Trend is likely changing rather than going away - Idols have always been a marketing tool in many ways, and not one necessarily confined by genre. In that sense, if it's true that the Idol trend is changing and sugary pop is falling out of favor, even among Idol fanbases, then Guilty Kiss is partly fortunate because they are ahead of the curve.

However, GK currently has two hard EDM songs and one hard rock song in Strawberry Trapper. If anything, GK's success seems to suggest hard EDM is increasingly demanded even by fans of Idol trend. So, in addition to Hard Rock and Pop-Metal, I suspect EDM is also part of this possible "wave of the future" if GK is a weather vane indicating where the winds of music trends are blowing. What's interesting is that AZALEA seems to also be chasing that same EDM trend.... and is only doing marginally better than CyaRon.

And no, I don't think Aqours needs a complete make-over. I do think they can benefit from continuing to offer more genre varierty as the most recent BD songs have provided, and their image and mythos (walk your own path distinct from your predecessors) do permit and justify this variety. That being said, we don't have to look very far to imagine how Aqours would be like with a "Fallen Angel Idol" style makeover proposed in Episode 5. Guilty Kiss is already that make-over made into an actual sub-unit, although it isn't really a makeover since Mari and Yohane's characterization lends itself so brilliantly to that concept. Aqours does not need an image change - Guilty Kiss already functionally is that image change.

CyaRon in my view is in a very bad position here, especially if the theory that Idol Music is on the verge of undergoing a shift out of sugar pop to other genres is true. It wouldn't surprise me that if CyaRon again goes for Moe-Genki in their second single as in their first single, they are going to perform the worst again in terms of sales and streams for their second single. Again, I guess we'd have to wait for June to see a clearer pattern, but the view counts are ominous. If the best girl effect partially contributes to sub-unit popularity, CyaRon is basically being carried by You and if she weren't in it, CyaRon would be doing even worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laevatein View Post
I don't think idols will disappear, but they may fade into the background for a while, until they get repackaged.
If anything, GK's success and rather unconventional image for Love Live seems to indicate this repackaging is in the process of happening right now.
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Old 2017-03-22, 05:37   Link #128
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Lantis has published a new video previewing the B-side tracks to the upcoming Happy Party Train single, SKY JOURNEY and Shoujo Ijou no Koi ga Shitai [少女以上の恋がしたい]:

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Old 2017-03-24, 05:19   Link #129
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Daydream Warriors has just become the first Non-Single Aqours song on youtube to past the 1 million view count mark today. It is currently the fifth most viewed Love Live Sunshine song, after the three singles and Self Control.
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Old 2017-03-24, 08:57   Link #130
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Ruby's voice tho. RUBY's VOICE THO

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Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
Daydream Warriors has just become the first Non-Single Aqours song on youtube to past the 1 million view count mark today. It is currently the fifth most viewed Love Live Sunshine song, after the three singles and Self Control.
can you link the video?
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Old 2017-03-24, 09:22   Link #131
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Is it just me or does Chika sound more and more like Kotori? O_O
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Old 2017-03-24, 09:34   Link #132
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can you link the video?
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Old 2017-03-27, 02:55   Link #133
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Urrrkk... Aqour's is part of the 2017 Anisama lineup. God help me, do I want to fight for tickets to go to Japan to watch this 3 day concert?
http://anisama.tv/2017/artist/index.php

Shit... looking at the line up for all 3 days, they are spreading the good stuff across all of them.
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Old 2017-03-27, 21:10   Link #134
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[ube]OK5GfyEp8[/youtube]
ah, that doesn't count! I thought he was talking about a video from the lantis channel.
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Old 2017-03-28, 08:14   Link #135
novalysis
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ah, that doesn't count! I thought he was talking about a video from the lantis channel.
Last I checked, the Lantis Channel preview only has about 480k views. The video that passed 1 million views is a Color Coded (voices in each part of the song identified) unofficial full upload.

Right now though, an upload of Saint Snow's Self Control has slightly more views - last I checked, it was on 1.09 million views thereabouts.
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Old 2017-04-03, 23:31   Link #136
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They will eventually move on to kpop at this pace. By the end of Aqours franchise or the next possible LL group will be girls with bigger boobs, more sex appeal and dancing just like kpop.
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Old 2017-04-05, 02:44   Link #137
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After rewatching the Happy Party Train PV about a few times and listening to the song even more, I actually grew to love it. Gonna sit down and listen to the B-side songs as well. Hopefully someone gets to the radio dramas as well.
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Old 2017-04-05, 07:10   Link #138
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Two of the three drama tracks have been translated too. If you think the Chika in the puppet show was a fluke, think again.
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Old 2017-04-07, 12:11   Link #139
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Happy Party Train's sales figures for the first three days are now out (from 4th to 6th April).
Day 1: 23854 Sales
Day 2: 11354 Sales
Day 3: 7247 Sales
3 Day total: 42455 sales.
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Old 2017-04-11, 06:16   Link #140
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Happy Party Train sold 54517 copies in its first week. This makes it the highest sold Aqours album ever - prior to this point, the highest sold Aqours single was the First Single which sold 48477 copies.

Incidentally, HPT is also the first Love Live main unit single to sell within the 50-60k range on its' first week. Only Bibi's third (58k) and fourth single (51k) sold within that range. Prior to the Love Live movies, only Bibi's 3rd Single and Love Live SIP S2 OP (65k) sold more than HPT.
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