Vivid Strike! - Episode 5 Discussion / Poll

[FlareKnight]

I do agree the key is more than purely beating Rinne in a fight. That's more of a minimal clearance factor. She can't really help her if she can't overcome her. But I think Fuka understands that. She has to withstand everything contained in Rinne's fist. The four years that has shaped the current Rinne has to be taken and overcome. Fuka did say it herself. It is up to her to clear away the past four years that has shaped her friend's very being. But it's as much how she does it and how she handles the aftermath that will be critical.

Vivio's fight against her lacked some factors. She didn't really know Rinne and thus couldn't even approach her on that emotional level. But also she won by points. By the end of the fight they were both standing and arguably Vivio had taken more damage. She just got a single down advantage and that carried her. Fuka will have to do more than win by the points. She has to bring her down.

The emotional side of that fight will be interesting. I agree Rinne may truly think that Fuka had it so much easier than she did. She sees her friend doing well and having a lot of friends and in her memories even the orphanage was easier than the experiences she had after. I'm sure she doesn't realize how bad Fuka was doing until just recently and how damaged she was emotionally after their 'fight.'

Anything could happen, but I see a pretty standard path ahead of them. Fuka wins, Rinne realizes where she went wrong and they rekindle their friendship.

[FlameSparkZ]

Wow, there was a bit more to Rinne's trauma than just the previous episode...ouch.
It seems the bullies (or atleast one of them) didn't learn their lesson. Sure, they're terrified, but still lied about the circumstances...that's basically hinting that they want revenge/payback.

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Rinne was great at that kind of verbal wrecking even as a kid. Although it was brutally honest. Unlike some of her official matches where she had no excuse to not use the person's name. To be honest...I didn't know which was which either. I suppose it was probably the girl with glasses. Broken nose and skull damage would more than make sense. Although the girl she kicked could qualify as well. I discount the first one because she also had to have a broken arm and that wasn't mentioned.

Yes. Judging by the leader's hair color, I'd say Sara was the one who got kicked, but it's also possible that it's the girl with glasses

To me, it seems that when Rinne broke, she developed somekind of "memory block" that makes her forget the names of the name of people she defeats
I understand not knowing the names of the three bullies, even if they were classmates...but forgetting the name of a match opponent (Carrie) is unusual.
In her mind, it's probablly being processed as: "I defeated this person, therefore it is someone whose name is not worth remembering". The opposite is also true, if she hasn't defeated/fought against an opponent she knows is strong, she'll remember their name.


Seems we'll be jumping right into the Winter Cup next week, I guess we won't have a "training montage" episode

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Anything could happen, but I see a pretty standard path ahead of them. Fuka wins, Rinne realizes where she went wrong and they rekindle their friendship.

I want to see them both on their knees, hugging eachother and crying in the middle of the ring...meanwhile the spectators are baffled at what's going on.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Fuka will have to do more than win by the points. She has to bring her down.

It's that even possible? Rinne is a beast. She's not just crazy talented, but has been training non-stop for years. I don't see how a few months of training could give Fuka the ability to overwhelm Rinne. I just don't see it, not in a believable way at least.

Don't get me wrong. I've no doubt Fuka will win. I just don't think she will manage to bring her down. At most, they'll knock each other out and Fuka will win by points or something.

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

It's that even possible? Rinne is a beast. She's not just crazy talented, but has been training non-stop for years.

You realize you just described Fate in season one? Yet Nanoha defeated Fate decisively in their final match. That is the nature of this sort of series. There are multiple examples throughout the franchise.

It will be a tough fight, however it goes, but it will end decisively. That's the way things in this universe work. That's the way befriending works, and how lessons are taught to people, whether it's through magic or via fists.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

You realize you just described Fate in season one? Yet Nanoha defeated Fate decisively in their final match.

Nanoha was described as a prodigy by Yuuno. That's what justified her quick growth. Fuka's cool, but she has never been described that way. In fact, Nove has expressed doubt that she could beat Rinne even after all this training.

It will be a tough fight, however it goes, but it will end decisively. That's the way things in this universe work. That's the way befriending works, and how lessons are taught to people, whether it's through magic or via fists.

I wonder. I remember Einhart commented that just because Vivio beat Rinne, that doesn't mean Nove's views are right and Jill's are wrong. The same counts for Fuka and Rinne. Even if Fuka wins, this doesn't mean she's right and Rinne is wrong. All in all, I get the feeling we'll see something a little different from the usual befriending this time.

[Stark700]

Well, the background storytelling overall for Rinne makes sense now and I'm pretty sure Fuuka made her resolve to not hold back at all in their upcoming fights.

Curious to see how well she and her new partner will coordinate though. Rinne is still a favorite to win by the audience so I expect that match to be in the finals or something.

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

^ Nanoha was described as a prodigy by Yuuno. That's what justified her quick growth. Fuka's cool, but she has never been described that way.

In episode 2 they basically described Fuka as a prodigy, possessing exceptional power and talent. Hell, that was the entire reason she caught Einhart's attention in the first place.

In fact, Nove has expressed doubt that she could beat Rinne even after all this training.

Well duh, Rinne's the first place fighter and she's really really good. If this wasn't going to be hard it wouldn't be a story. Overcoming that kind of difficulty is part of the journey.

I wonder. I remember Einhart commented that just because Vivio beat Rinne, that doesn't mean Nove's views are right and Jill's are wrong. The same counts for Fuka and Rinne. Even if Fuka wins, this doesn't she's right and Rinne is wrong.

That's not the point. The point is to get her into a state where she will listen. Right now Rinne isn't receptive. She doesn't realize the kind of person she's becoming: the kind of damage she is doing. You don't prove right or wrong with a fight, you get people to stop being stubborn and to finally talk with you so things can be worked out.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

In episode 2 they basically described Fuka as a prodigy, possessing exceptional power and talent. Hell, that was the entire reason she caught Einhart's attention in the first place.

They said she has talent, which she obvious has, but she's not a prodigy.

Anyway, let's just wait and see.

[FlameSparkZ]

Fuuka might have the advantage when it comes to training.

What I mean is, so far we've only seen Rinne train on her own, while Fuuka has been training with multiple opponents, and learning from them...it's basically a case of Solo Training VS Group Training.

[Random Wanderer]

So putting this discussion aside, I give points to Fuka for performing better than Miura in her first attempt against Mikaiah. In their match in the Inter-Middle, Miura made that exact same mistake of charging in at Mikaiah, and got the same result: duck under the strike and slash across the middle. However, Fuka was able to react and defend against it, getting a gauntlet up to take the hit and drawing back to prevent further strikes; while Miura was slashed straight across the midsection which left her open for followup strikes that almost eliminated her right at the start.

The fact that Fuka was able to recognize her mistake in time to defend and avoid taking notable damage is seriously impressive. That sort of strike is Mikaiah's specialty. Iaijutsu: quickly drawing the blade in a counterstrike for massive damage. Even recognizing that a strike from that is coming is impressive.

[ryllharu]

Fuuka is a natural brawler, and has that advantage going into a fight with Rinne. She never really thinks about what she does, including the reason she's fighting Rinne. She just knows that she has to try and beat her ass, and then maybe use the opportunity from accomplishing that.

Nanoha had a goal, talk to Fate once she knocked her down. Fuuka doesn't care about all that, she just wants to take down someone who looks at others with disdain.

I think Fuuka's lack of forethought played well into the fight with Mikaiah. Fuuka reacted to the strike even though she made the same mistake as Miura did, as Random Wanderer said. Fuuka protected her midsection without even knowing exactly what strike would be coming. She didn't think, she just reacted. That may be her edge on Rinne, who will be swirling with all kinds of thoughts once they start fighting. Rinne fights, Fuuka brawls.

While we don't have many examples of Rinne's formal fighting style, she's very deliberate and puts her opponents down as fast as possible with overwhelming force. Fuuka fights in a way that she can get some counter hits in. She's much like a hybrid of Einhart and Vivio.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

It's that even possible? Rinne is a beast. She's not just crazy talented, but has been training non-stop for years. I don't see how a few months of training could give Fuka the ability to overwhelm Rinne. I just don't see it, not in a believable way at least.

Don't get me wrong. I've no doubt Fuka will win. I just don't think she will manage to bring her down. At most, they'll knock each other out and Fuka will win by points or something.

Easy to accomplish? No. Possible? I think so. Rinne is a beast to be sure. But, it's not like Fuka can't be one herself. They've set Fuka up to have that ability. That even untrained and near exhaustion she delivered a good shot at Einhard and caught her eye. With a short amount of instruction delivering an attack with enough force to send Vivio flying out of the ring. Magical ability that was too much for the gym's top magic casters to control.

I'd be surprised to see the fight ending without Fuka getting in the knock out (or knock down since they need to have a talkative moment after) hit on Rinne. She'll take a beating, probably be near exhaustion, but she'll knock her out. And I think that's the way it has to go. Even if 9/10 she'd lose, this has to be the 1/10 where she outright wins. It's the only way she'd get Rinne to really listen to her. There's any number of ways you can make that win believable. Rinne being emotionally shaken up during the fight, a moment of weakness due to training herself too hard, etc.

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

So putting this discussion aside, I give points to Fuka for performing better than Miura in her first attempt against Mikaiah. In their match in the Inter-Middle, Miura made that exact same mistake of charging in at Mikaiah, and got the same result: duck under the strike and slash across the middle. However, Fuka was able to react and defend against it, getting a gauntlet up to take the hit and drawing back to prevent further strikes; while Miura was slashed straight across the midsection which left her open for followup strikes that almost eliminated her right at the start.

The fact that Fuka was able to recognize her mistake in time to defend and avoid taking notable damage is seriously impressive. That sort of strike is Mikaiah's specialty. Iaijutsu: quickly drawing the blade in a counterstrike for massive damage. Even recognizing that a strike from that is coming is impressive.

I did actually think about that as well. Made the same kind of reckless opening charge, but was able to handle the counter a lot better. Was able to follow that attack a bit better and protect herself. Shows that the training has really allowed her natural abilities to be strengthened. A lot of potential that was just never fully tapped into since she had no training.

That really worked nicely to show us where Fuka currently is with a comparable we are familiar with. I agree with ryllharu that it shows her natural instincts well. She's lived her life with occasional brawls popping up here and there. So maybe that's why her body was able to react very smoothly to the surprise attack by Mikaiah. Unlike when she fought against Vivio and was caught offguard by her counter attack, her body is better able to actually respond to what is coming her way.

[Blueknight78]

peoples must not forget which fuuka herself already had a lot of "experience" with street battles unlike rinn which only started to fight in tournaments 4 years ago after the bullying problem, while fuuka had her early life having to deal with thugs and risking her life much more than what rinn had, this is enough to give her a huge advantage without count her natural talent for fights as already stated.

[TYxTxYT]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

She's not just crazy talented, but has been training non-stop for years.

So did Einhart.
And it didn't really do her much good until she let go of the past and became a player among the girls...

[B214]

Originally Posted by TYxTxYT

So did Einhart.
And it didn't really do her much good until she let go of the past and became a player among the girls...

But Rinne has a coach while Einhart didn't. Einhart just blindly followed her ancestor's memory and use it to challenge people to fight in the streets. Einhart back then was like a person with above average skills & lots of talent but without any actual direction for improvements.

[Metaneo]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Nanoha was described as a prodigy by Yuuno. That's what justified her quick growth. Fuka's cool, but she has never been described that way. In fact, Nove has expressed doubt that she could beat Rinne even after all this training.

Nanoha is actually a (double?)subversion of the whole Prodigies are better than hard workers. While yes, Nanoha was born powerful, her quick growth had nothing to do with the fact that she was a prodigy. Nanoha put herself through constant hellish training to achieve the power and skill she has now. She's a prodigy who also works hard.

Also remember that Nanoha beat Fate in season one even though Fate had much, much more magic training than her and was arguably more driven than Nanoha at the time. Given the setting Fuka can justifiably take on Rinne by the time she faces her in the ring.

[chaos_animagic]

Like I said in ep 4's thread.

I fully support Rinne and she should have killed all of them bullies.

Bullies are nothing but trash of the world, they beat people up then makes themselves look like the victim... bastards.

Rinne is still way too nice after the incidents, she still thinks about Fuka... and didn't want to drag down her foster family, that takes guts to leave her home for the sake of people that isn't her blood relatives. (especially home she loved and was loved and had everything she needs) (I can't even think of anyone here leaving your home and never ever contact your relatives ever again...)

Meanwhile Fuka gets a way better life and thinks Rinne is bullying her... especially if as said by someone in the previous thread that they kept in contact (I thought they didn't judging by the way Rinne says she misses Fuka).

I actually want Fuka to get beat up more here, all she thinks is about herself really, even in this episode she just wants to show she can be stronger than Rinne rather than thinking how she can resolve this and be friends again...


But then again as said by ppls... the weaker main character will always win in the end against a stronger opponent. It's undeniable fact in the manga/anime universe.
So technically we already know how this is going to end, we're just watching a rerun.

[Metaneo]

Originally Posted by chaos_animagic

*snip*

You have quite the skewed view of both Fuka and reality....

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by chaos_animagic

I actually want Fuka to get beat up more here, all she thinks is about herself really, even in this episode she just wants to show she can be stronger than Rinne rather than thinking how she can resolve this and be friends again...

...It's kind of like you're not watching the same show the rest of us are watching. The entire purpose of Fuka becoming strong enough to beat Rinne is so they can become friends again. Rinne's attempt to become strong enough to avoid losing anything that she considers precious is actually costing her the very things that she considers precious, and it's also harming innocent people that she doesn't even realize really exist, because they aren't important to her as anything other than stepping-stones.

This isn't about selfishness at all. It's about helping her friend who's become so lost that she can't realize or accept that she even needs help at all.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

...It's kind of like you're not watching the same show the rest of us are watching. The entire purpose of Fuka becoming strong enough to beat Rinne is so they can become friends again. Rinne's attempt to become strong enough to avoid losing anything that she considers precious is actually costing her the very things that she considers precious, and it's also harming innocent people that she doesn't even realize really exist, because they aren't important to her as anything other than stepping-stones.

This isn't about selfishness at all. It's about helping her friend who's become so lost that she can't realize or accept that she even needs help at all.

I have to presume that chaos_animagic is joking. I can't imagine watching this show and actually interpreting it like that. Just about everything said there was in the reverse.

All Rinne is doing right now is isolating and hurting herself. Training up to and possibly beyond her limits seeking some vague idea of strength so she won't lose anything. But by doing that she's losing things and leaving herself unable to gain anything new to protect or care for. She's closed herself off from anyone that would reach out a hand of friendship. From classmates, from competitors, and even old friends like Fuka. That's not healthy and is rather a self-destructive path.

It's imperative that someone tries to help her. Right now the one person in a good position to do that is Fuka. She has the potential ability to win that fight and the past connection that might be able to get through this brutal wall Rinne has up. We saw in episode 1 she still cares for Fuka. So if Fuka can get through...then she's someone who can help her move forward.