AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Retired M-Z > Umineko

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2015-04-24, 19:58   Link #35121
haguruma
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Germany
Age: 33
Send a message via ICQ to haguruma Send a message via MSN to haguruma
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inbuiltx9 View Post
why the bunnies are called “Siesta sisters”
Like Bluemail already mentioned:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Answer to the Golden Witch
K I also thought about whether the name of the Siesta sisters had it’s origin in the number 6. Is it?

R That thought is quite intersting, but if I would have to answer that honestly, it comes from the Chester in Winchester. That’s why the name Siesta really doesn’t begin with an S but a C. If you enter an I into the word Chester you get Chiester. And isn’t it fascinating how even a gun can become a bunny if you put love into it (= 愛 (love) is read Ai in Japanese).
Quote:
or why Gertrude and Cornelia always start with: “Allow me to speak”.
Well, to be completely correct, they say, 謹啓謹んで申し上げる (Kinkei tsutsushinde moushiageru), which translates less smoothly to, "Dear Sirs, I humbly state this."
It's simply a very formal, written way to show respect while stating something that might not be entirely positive. I'd like to hear your idea on what it means in your interpretation though.

Spoiler for truth in umineko:


Quote:
I just want to show that I understood it, and if Ryukishi doesn’t reveal anything, then I will probably delete all my posts and keep it to myself :P But I also wanted to write it down, because Ryukishi managed to do something amazing here, and its such a pity if its not appreciated.
I think the reason why many of us don't really know what to do with your theory is that you are so sure that it is the truth, even Ryukishi coming up to and telling you that you are wrong might not convince you.
Your approach is basically "author not admitting what I found = author is lying".

EDIT:
For all who haven't heard it. Umineko is going to end in August with a double-release of volume 8 and 9 of the Episode 8 manga. This probably means that the manga will stop running in about 2 or 3 chapters. I do wonder though if the tankobon release will have additional content.

Last edited by haguruma; 2015-04-25 at 18:37.
haguruma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-04-25, 21:02   Link #35122
jjblue1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Chow View Post
This may be a bit far-fetched, but I think that we are gonna see Tohya collapse clutching his head going to a fetal position and screaming. Yet at the same time I think this is unlikely. It might even be possible that Tohya would die right then and there, which would in a sense fit with what Featherine said having a deceased friend (I would cry if he was just a friend, though if they were f*** buddies...).

Considering that Ryukishi said in the APGNation interview that the manga will no longer be an individual's interpretation what are your predictions about the final scene with Tohya at the Fukuin House seeing everyone alive?
My feeling was that it meant that the Battler inside Tohya's head was finally put to rest. Otherwise Ange too would have to die as she's also there to welcome Battler. Though it can be that Ange had put a time bomb inside the Fukuin house just to be together with her family and so... KABOOM!

LOL, just joking of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Chow View Post
Food for thought:
What does Jessica have in common with Kinzo? This just occurred to me, but doesn't every one of Kinzo's grandchildren inherited qualities he possessed?

George = Yandere
Leon = Headship (arguably incest romance borne from his incestuous origin, at least to his servant counterpart)
Jessica = ?
Battler = Appearance
Ange = Recklessness
Maria = Occult fan.
Well, all the grandchildren inherited something, even though they're much, much better than Kinzo so Kinzo's bad sides are in them in a tamer manner.

I would have said Jessica has the abrupt, bordering violent streak. Kinzo was prone to beat up his children when angered. Jessica don't hesitate jumping on Maria or even Eva. She doesn't exactly beat them (she's better than Kinzo) but she gets closer to it.

George has the ambition and possessiveness and also he's prone to look down at people. Again he's better than Kinzo.

Lion doesn't really care much about others' wishes and tends to stick to certain rules. Jessica asks him not to candidate as this will put her in a bad spot, but not only he does it anyway but doesn't even he tells her beforehand or discuss it with her. He could intercede with Kinzo to help Maria but doesn't care, he's not troubled by not remembering servants' names, when he's told his relatives might not like him being the head he's all 'too bad for them, that's what is decided' and he feels he's allowed to enforce rules/manners/whatever by pinching people, even complete strangers like Will. Again he's better than Kinzo who didn't care at all about his children and their feelings and used people as tools.

Battler is more like young Kinzo, full of dreams, playful, competitive, yet overly stubborn, overly proud and find hard to let go of things. Also, when angry he yells like Kinzo (he sort of scares Eva). And of course he has Kinzo's look.

Ange is... well, she's mourning Kinzo. She can't stop mourning on her family same as Kinzo couldn't stop mourning on Beatrice and is totally obsessed by her own tragedy. Again, she's better than him as she ultimately manages to let it go.

Maria has the love for English and for occult. She also collects lot of info on occult in the same way as Kinzo collected lot of books on it so the two have managed to get a good knowledge of it. She's also prone to indulge herself in delusions same as Kinzo that deluded himself that his daughter was Beatrice reborn.

Sayo (I'll consider her different from Lion) like Kinzo tends to obsess on the person she loves, idealize him and sees in him her salvation (Battler is her prince and she wanted him to be her saviour). Like young Kinzo who let the elders trap him she tends to be passive but yet she's prone to huge, suicidal gamblings.

LOL, and since I'm at it I'll list his children as well:

They're all verbally abusive and prone to brash actions, although each one in different settings.

Krauss got his pride and his misoginist streak. He is also not good at expressing himself and at showing he cares (it seems with age Kinzo got more fond of his family but...).

Eva got his brains but she's so obsessed by the Ushiromiya family she sees George as a pawn. Like Kinzo had Krauss marry Natsuhi for profit and tried to shape his children into heirs of his liking she worked George hard so that he could be a heir and won't mind to marry him. Differently from Kinzo she loves her child but doesn't really care about his opinion.

Rudolf likes doing risky, illegal operations and can't stay loyal to his wife to save his life (though Kinzo betrayed his own wife not out of lust but out of love for another woman). His handling of his family is debatable as apparently he took poor care of Battler and didn't mind to switch his sons pushing Kyrie's son to Asumu (Kinzo pushed his child on Natsuhi).

Rosa is physically abusive and prone to commiserate herself. She cries and begs for Maria to be forgiven but then she has no problems repeating the same mistakes (Kinzo wanted "Beatrice"/Sayo to forgive him but it was all a pro forma as Sayo had no idea what he was forgiving him for and once he had done he felt he has nothing to regret anymore) and manipulating her daughter (Kinzo manipulated/forced Beatrice to sleep with him and to think she was her mother's reincarnation).

Really, Kinzo handed some really horrible traits to his children and grandchildren and it's a good thing they're still better people than him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
EDIT:
For all who haven't heard it. Umineko is going to end in August with a double-release of volume 8 and 9 of the Episode 8 manga. This probably means that the manga will stop running in about 2 or 3 chapters. I do wonder though if the tankobon release will have additional content.
Yes, I've heard. *sighs* I'm so gonna miss the manga. It's so bad Umineko has not as much side material as Higurashi... ;_;

Am I the only one who wants a sidestory about Battler's life in those 6 years he hadn't been an Ushiromiya? I'd like to know how his mother died, if his grandparents were nice and if they died of illness or old age or... something else (really, where Battler goes people die, first Asumu's child, then Asumu, then Asumu's parents, then his whole family... it's a miracle Ikuko's still alive... LOL, just joking of course...), if he was really living his life to the max or, as hinted, those 6 years weren't actually so smooth, what kept him so... busy... if he thought at Sayo and so on.

Though I doubt we'll get Battler's side of the story... but it'll be nice to get to... know him. In a way we never really know him as he was merely represented through Sayo's tales (and she hadn't seen him for 6 years) and Tohya's tales (and he's suffering of amnesia).

On a sidenote... has someone read the Ougon manga and knows what it talks about? Is it just a story about fights?
jjblue1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-04-26, 20:24   Link #35123
Megumi Kitagawa
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Hi, I have a question in regards to EP7s tea party. It may be a very simple answer, but the answer has eluded me for some time.

When Bernkastel sees Lion and Will in EP8, she mentions she expected them to be floating in the Fragment sea. What confuses me is how would Lion be able to access or cross the sea without a Voyager or someone else to take him through (that's what I think Lion was crossing at the end of the Episode).
Megumi Kitagawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-04-26, 21:52   Link #35124
haguruma
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Germany
Age: 33
Send a message via ICQ to haguruma Send a message via MSN to haguruma
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megumi Kitagawa View Post
When Bernkastel sees Lion and Will in EP8, she mentions she expected them to be floating in the Fragment sea. What confuses me is how would Lion be able to access or cross the sea without a Voyager or someone else to take him through (that's what I think Lion was crossing at the end of the Episode).
They accessed the sea at the end of EP7, yes. Technically Lion was already removed from his own fragment by being placed in Bernkastel's strange bricolage-fragment within the chapel.
It's pretty much implied (at least in the manga) that it was Lambda who gave them the ability to steer through the sea of fragments and then it would be Battler's invitation that gave them the ability to enter the Twilight fragment.
haguruma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-04-27, 13:44   Link #35125
Mali
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
I agree with haguruma here.

My theory is that Ange met a nameless forger we don't know and propose to read 2 similar tales which happen to be the tales with Rudolph and Kyrie as culprits with and without Lion. She denied both tales and that she did not know a cousin named Lion. After finding an inofficial birth certificate or notes of Nanjo about the baby it was established as a fact (Lambda) that there was an another relative.
Mali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-04-27, 14:29   Link #35126
Tazar
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mali View Post
I agree with haguruma here.

My theory is that Ange met a nameless forger we don't know and propose to read 2 similar tales which happen to be the tales with Rudolph and Kyrie as culprits with and without Lion. She denied both tales and that she did not know a cousin named Lion. After finding an inofficial birth certificate or notes of Nanjo about the baby it was established as a fact (Lambda) that there was an another relative.
Maybe she just read an internet forgery at some point that matched the diary?
Tazar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-04-27, 15:38   Link #35127
Megumi Kitagawa
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
They accessed the sea at the end of EP7, yes. Technically Lion was already removed from his own fragment by being placed in Bernkastel's strange bricolage-fragment within the chapel.
It's pretty much implied (at least in the manga) that it was Lambda who gave them the ability to steer through the sea of fragments and then it would be Battler's invitation that gave them the ability to enter the Twilight fragment.
Okay, that makes sense. The scene at the end where Bern tips the chess pieces over probably are what confused me. Thank you!
Megumi Kitagawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-04-27, 20:22   Link #35128
jjblue1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
My guess is that Ange's long travel began after Eva's death with her searching for the truth that lead her on placing her hands on the diary. Ep 7 Teaparty represents her reading it but then rejecting it. She then tries embracing Battler's gameboard (or better a fantasy... possibly mixed with a forgery) but ends up rejecting it which leads her back to what she had read in the diary... only she can't bear it and it almost kills her. However she comes to terms with it and we end up with the magic ending of Ep 8.
jjblue1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-04-28, 05:23   Link #35129
Mali
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Yeah it explains the "why don't you just give up and die" in that scene. The funny thing is about Lions role. Claire's disembowel seems to be the denying of Beato or Yasu. Could be there a connection between this and Beato's heart scene in EP3?
Mali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-04-28, 22:17   Link #35130
Leslie Chow
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Random Question:
Are the games ultimately one-sided? What if Battler solved Beatrice's riddles as they play let's say EP2? Would that mean that the outcome of the games would change? Since everything is scripted, isn't it like Battler is just watching a chess game and that he isn't really controlling anything? There's this part in EP6 where Sorcerer Battler moved a chess piece but doesn't it somehow contradict the notion that everything is scripted? Unless of course the meta-world is part of the story.

If that is the case, then that bring another question: the meta-world. If the meta-world was real, that would mean that Sayo used characters from a TV show (or novel) (Higurashi) to create the meta-story. Because I find it hard to believe that a deranged person writing a series of stories (or plans if they were converted as novels by the Hachijos) or a deluded suicidal teen would just so happen to be noticed by real witches (if Bern or Lambda were real) and be eventually be talking to them in the meta-world or as the manga confirmed the witches world, which is ultimately an alternate dimension, if not a part of someone's head. Or, did Maria's book that had delusions of a nine-year-old girl that as influenced by Sayo also had instructions of the meta-world? If this is the case, then wouldn't that mean that everything in the future is also POSSIBLY have written by Sayo as well (e.g. the portions with Featherine in it, like the interview at the building)?

Was there something I missed? Is there any (in)direct evidence that proves that the meta-world is NOT an alternate dimension?

Last edited by Leslie Chow; 2015-04-28 at 22:34.
Leslie Chow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-04-29, 12:40   Link #35131
AuraTwilight
The True Culprit
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Golden Land
Send a message via AIM to AuraTwilight Send a message via MSN to AuraTwilight
It's strongly implied that Battler gets to control his own piece, so he COULD theoretically change the script. EP6 says multiple times that Battler almost derailed her games multiple times, and she had to improvise on the spot.

The Meta-World is named such because it's metafictional and metaphorical. The Beatrice who exists in the Meta-World is not the Sayo who despaired and died.
__________________
When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531
AuraTwilight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-04-29, 15:08   Link #35132
Leslie Chow
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
If anybody hasn't heard yet, there is an anime convention about to take place in Chicago and Ryukishi07 will be a guest.

http://www.acen.org/guests

For the US members (if any) in this forum, you're lucky if you'll be willing to spend a few $$$ as you'd get a chance to meet (or see) Ryukishi in person and (probably) ask the guy in a panel questions (especially in regards to Rosatrice or anything really).
Leslie Chow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-04-29, 15:15   Link #35133
Levani
貴方が私のマスターか?
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Georgia, Tbilisi
He has denied Rosatrice already, no need to ask about it again.

I'm more interested in what his real name is xD
Levani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-04-29, 15:21   Link #35134
Leslie Chow
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Well, it's not like he said it is an invalid answer or anything, there's still the possibility of not being fully truthful. Plus I am not sure if he's even aware of it, since he made no mention of it and didn't outright deny it by saying "Rosatrice is not the answer".

But even so I'd like to have a pic with the guy and have him autograph my copy of Umineko VOL1....

P.S. I'd like to know his real name too...
Leslie Chow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-04-30, 03:01   Link #35135
Levani
貴方が私のマスターか?
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Georgia, Tbilisi
I think he did say that it was an invalid answer in the recent interview.
Levani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-04-30, 05:19   Link #35136
Leslie Chow
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
He didn't say Rosatrice was an invalid answer. He said that the manga is no longer an interpretation but an official answer. He was also vague about it, so it could have been just in regards to the how dunnit, because as I see it, the who dunnit and the why dunnit, is clear as daylight in the vn. CotGW seems to be just an elaboration of EP7 from a non-magical perspective.

Also Ryukishi nor any of his interviewers seem to be aware of the existence of this theory.

As it stands, Rosatrice is just an alternative answer that exists due to some loopholes and pieces of evidence here and there, like EP7 having no objective observer or if CotGW should be taken at face value. If it is the true answer or not, is debatable. I still don't see why it should get any hate though just because some Rosatrice fanboys were elitists.
Leslie Chow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-04-30, 05:27   Link #35137
Mali
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
What's wrong about being asked the same question?

It would be more appreciating if referenced interviews are applied with a warning of spoilers. Even the interview "Say it in red!" (how ironic) gave this warning. Let's think of our fellow umineko readers who doesn't finished. There are no rules about it but it's fine to post it in spoiler tag, right?
Mali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-04-30, 05:38   Link #35138
Mr. Dent
A Rather Brillig Ember
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: North America
Age: 21
As a US member, I'm actually planning on going to ACEN! I'm really excited, though I'm not sure if he'll do autographs. Not quite sure how it'll be set up to begin with, but I'm assuming there'll at least be a Q&A, or possibly physical copies of his games available for sale. Anyway, he's also coming to Anime Expo in California, so that's also exciting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levani View Post
I'm more interested in what his real name is xD
Hmm, I kind of don't think he'd tell anyone. It kind of defeats the purpose of having an alias to begin with! And besides, what if he's like Batman, and when he reveals his name you realize that he's someone really famous and feel dumb for not realizing that the elusive Purupurupikopuyo-man was within your grasp this entire time? ...wait...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Chow View Post
Also Ryukishi nor any of his interviewers seem to be aware of the existence of this theory.
If I remember right, it's pretty much exclusively a Western Fanbase thing, which makes sense, since some of the pieces of evidence aren't in the original language, but only in WH's TL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Chow View Post
I still don't see why it should get any hate though just because some Rosatrice fanboys were elitists.
Most are elitists, and the reason most are is because the whole theory ascertains that the Official Theory is an obvious lie that you'd have to be "unimaginably retarded" to believe in, but only the true heroes of Umineko can see truth that Ryukishi hid for some reason.
__________________
Mr. Dent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-04-30, 07:39   Link #35139
Levani
貴方が私のマスターか?
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Georgia, Tbilisi
Quote:
I still don't see why it should get any hate though just because some Rosatrice fanboys were elitists.
Because they used to claim that people who followed the "official explanation" were ignorant and blind. They had the arrogance to speak like they understood the story a lot better than us. I think it's quite given that most of us dislike this theory simply because of this.

And the fact that it doesn't even work is another topic.
Levani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015-04-30, 15:34   Link #35140
AuraTwilight
The True Culprit
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Golden Land
Send a message via AIM to AuraTwilight Send a message via MSN to AuraTwilight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Chow View Post
He didn't say Rosatrice was an invalid answer. He said that the manga is no longer an interpretation but an official answer.

What's the difference, when the manga directly confirms the Sayotrice solution?
__________________
When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531
AuraTwilight is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:18.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.