F/SN UBW TV - Episode 23 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[bhl88]

Alien geometry with X number of dimensions and alien materials.

[nero12]

man they put the most famous dialogue of the ubw route in the next ep preview!
I actually got goosebumps.

[GDB]

I liked how they expanded the grail gathering wishes. But if they don't clarify Archer's situation next week, it'll just lead to more people wondering whether the person there is Servant Archer or Counter Guardian EMIYA.

[Levani]

Originally Posted by GDB

I liked how they expanded the grail gathering wishes. But if they don't clarify Archer's situation next week, it'll just lead to more people wondering whether the person there is Servant Archer or Counter Guardian EMIYA.

They'll be calling it a deus-ex-machina either way.

Counter Guardian Emiya theory flows so much better... xD

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Levani

They'll be calling it a deus-ex-machina either way.

Counter Guardian Emiya theory flows so much better... xD

What about memories though?

[Levani]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

What about memories though?

What about them? Emiya will not be able to remember?

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Levani

What about them? Emiya will not be able to remember?

Well that's hard to say, because in the "epilogue: Answer" Archer says that he only remembers "for this summoning", but the "original" EMIYA in the throne of heroes, can read the memories of the summoned copies "like a book". I am still not sure if Counter Guardian summoning means that the hero gets outright pulled from the throne of heroes, of if it's a "copy" like it is for servants. At least it seems Servant EMIYA can remember his work as a CG, but I don't know if it works the other way around.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by GDB

I liked how they expanded the grail gathering wishes. But if they don't clarify Archer's situation next week, it'll just lead to more people wondering whether the person there is Servant Archer or Counter Guardian EMIYA.

Only people who obsess over Nasuverse lore enough to even be cognizant of the possibility. 99% of the audience won't even think of any possibility other than the same Servant Archer we all know and love, though a fair number will consider the fact that he's still alive some kind of asspull... Because honestly there is some level of asspullery to it.

[steam fish]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Something about it being a "paradox" to meet your future self, so he forgets things like Archer's face later on, so it's not hard to assume that the skills he gained would get lost too, aside from maybe what "the body remembers", i.e. it would be easier to re-train it again.

Does that mean shiro would forget meeting archer after the war?

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by steam fish

Does that mean shiro would forget meeting archer after the war?

Don't see why. His memories of meeting Archer were acquired "normally". It was the "future memories" of how to use UBW that he gained via the paradox of being the same person as Archer. If it were a paradox to meet a Servant, then every surviving Master would forget previously met Servants, and we've got two examples (Kirei and Waver) to show that that doesn't happen.

EDIT: I just reread the part about forgetting his face, so most likely the paradox also extends to "future details". Thus most likely he remembers that he met a future version of himself as an Archer Servant, but details beyond that are hazy. Clearly he remembers something, or else it wouldn't be noted that he forgets "his face".

[GDB]

To be fair, Archer had previously forgotten pretty much everyone from Fuyuki as well other than Kiritsugu. It wasn't until he heard Rin's name that it all came flooding back.

I think it's just safe to say Shirou has a bad memory for faces.

[quigonkenny]

Shirou isn't exactly a brain trust to begin with... Inherently genius when it comes to the things he's got aptitude for (all things UBW-related), but woefully average (or worse) on everything else.

[Rising Dragon]

Well yeah, but that's to be expected of someone who's clinically insane.

[steam fish]

So does this mean after the war shiro would forget how to use unlimited blade works and he will have to relearn it again? if he loses his sword skills i think it makes sense if he cant use ubw too

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by steam fish

So does this mean after the war shiro would forget how to use unlimited blade works and he will have to relearn it again? if he loses his sword skills i think it makes sense if he cant use ubw too

Well... perhaps using it at least once would make it much easier to re-learn again.

[JustThisOne]

Shirou will not forget how to use UBW after learning how to use it and know about its nature. The memories Archer "forgot" were just related to his previous life, not his combat abilities or magecraft.

Also, Shirou technically cannot forget his sword skills considering that is just a product of his Reality Marble, which is always with him.

[TwilightsCall]

Shirou can reproduce the skills of the original wielder of any weapon he Traces properly, so it would be pretty irrelevant even if he did forget the skills he absorbed from Archer.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by TwilightsCall

Shirou can reproduce the skills of the original wielder of any weapon he Traces properly, so it would be pretty irrelevant even if he did forget the skills he absorbed from Archer.

Well if one of the skills he "took" from Archer is "Eye of the mind (true): B", then it does matter a lot, because that's an ability on the level of Saber's instinct.

[JustThisOne]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Well if one of the skills he "took" from Archer is "Eye of the mind (true): B", then it does matter a lot, because that's an ability on the level of Saber's instinct.

Sword skill is the only thing Shirou can copy. Shirou can't copy Servant skills like those. Also, Archer got Eye of the Mind from his combat experience.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by JustThisOne

Sword skill is the only thing Shirou can copy. Shirou can't copy Servant skills like those. Also, Archer got Eye of the Mind from his combat experience.

And now WHAT does Shirou get from Archer? Exactly: "Combat Experience", because "skills" + "memories" = "Combat Experience".


They even kind of showed him using it at the beginning of EP20 when Archer moved behind him. It was similar to the EP17 moment where Lancer teleported next to Archer and almost impaled him. That seems to me the only moments respectively that would match the desciption of "Eye of the mind (true)"