Mari Okada discussion

[Triple_R]

After watching Mayoiga Episode 11, and thinking back on Selector-Spread WIXOSS and Aquarion EVOL, I think there's a particular strength of Okada's that perhaps deserves more attention.

And what is that strength?

Writing highly amusing campy antagonists/villains. A good number of Okada's antagonists/villains remind me vividly of what comic book supervillians tended to be like in the 80s and 90s. In other words, very camp and theatrical with good screen presence. Okada's more psychopathic characters also feel like they're straight out of Arkham Asylum.


Aquarion EVOL had its issues, but Mykage was not one of them. He was a superb villain.

I liked WIXOSS a lot, and possibly its biggest strength was its highly amusing and colorful antagonists. Two in particular really stand-out for me.

Mayoiga can be hard to get into, but its most recent episodes have represented substantial improvement for the show, in my view. A lot of that is the more compelling character drama, but some of it is also how fun/colorful the more antagonistic characters have become.

Of particular note here is Okada's skill with villain team-ups. WIXOSS and Mayoiga both showcase that nicely.

I honestly think Okada would make an excellent Marvel/DC comic book writer, particularly for one of their big event crossovers (she's handled Mayoiga's massive cast better than I thought she would after the first few episodes).


Now, to be fair, solid Director work is a factor here. I definitely think Okada's dialogue needs to be visually framed a certain way for this to be as effective as possible. But Mayoiga and WIXOSS do have different Directors, and are produced by different studios, so I think a big part of this is Okada's own skill at writing colorful antagonists/villains.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

After watching Mayoiga Episode 11, and thinking back on Selector-Spread WIXOSS and Aquarion EVOL, I think there's a particular strength of Okada's that perhaps deserves more attention.

And what is that strength?

Writing highly amusing campy antagonists/villains. A good number of Okada's antagonists/villains remind me vividly of what comic book supervillians tended to be like in the 80s and 90s. In other words, very camp and theatrical with good screen presence. Okada's more psychopathic characters also feel like they're straight out of Arkham Asylum.

Lol!

I'm going to imagine Okada writing for SAO/AW then xD

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Kudelia though seems to have gone a different route, though I suppose we also have idealism shattered much like in someone else's "OH YOU HAZ IDEALS LOL" work. Though Okada is pretty adept at this. Not a bad idea, though I really have had to start on IBO again. She seems pretty good when it comes to Gundam female protagonists which usually I find pretty weak. Maybe I just haven't watched enough Gundam, but it just seems like all the interesting female characters are evil? (Well, Cecily and Audrey were decent...)

Personal opinion, she was the weakest character in IBO. Closest think I can think of is your typical harem girl. It has to be said that the general characterization of the cast got lost/stale after few episodes.


About Mayoiga, it's a very odd series and exactly I don't know why I'm liking it yet. Surely it's not thanks to its characters. Kiznavier instead is probably my favorite series of the season so far.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Arya

Personal opinion, she was the weakest character in IBO. Closest think I can think of is your typical harem girl. It has to be said that the general characterization of the cast got lost/stale after few episodes.


About Mayoiga, it's a very odd series and exactly I don't know why I'm liking it yet. Surely it's not thanks to its characters. Kiznavier instead is probably my favorite series of the season so far.

Well, haven't seen IBO completely though I don't think she was that plain enough to be that kind of label. She seems to be melded off the sheltered, peaceloving princess trope in mecha, but oftentimes that type remains stupidly adamant to the cause regardless of situation. I think it was a bit different from what I saw. It is very disappointing if the characterization stalled like that.

I was always comparing to yet another martian princess in a similar role in another recent mecha anime, though that show had such forgettable characters that I barely remember it. I think it had a Keeanu Reevevs wannabe that loved eggs and some guy that got hilariously tortured all the time because the writers didn't like him. And there was always loud pretentious music regardless of scene. That princess was really cute though!

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Well, haven't seen IBO completely though I don't think she was that plain enough to be that kind of label. She seems to be melded off the sheltered, peaceloving princess trope in mecha, but oftentimes that type remains stupidly adamant to the cause regardless of situation. I think it was a bit different from what I saw. It is very disappointing if the characterization stalled like that.

She really is not stalled. She grew into someone who knows the real importance of her goal after she experienced some deaths, reality checks and a mindfuck first-hand and became street-smarter after "waking up" from her naiveté and idealism. And after realizing that her cause is actually bigger than what she thought before, she no longer held her idealized "let's go with the peaceful method where everybody can live"-way and she accepted the reality that she must talk & negotiate with Arbrau leaders about her people's rights no matter what and Gjallarhorn needs to be stopped and sacrifice (including Tekkadan kids) is needed to achieve victory for all the people whose lives depend on her action (sometimes literally). And she is certainly leagues better than that other damned (literal) Martian Princess (whereas Kudelia is not really a princess).

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Writing highly amusing campy antagonists/villains. A good number of Okada's antagonists/villains remind me vividly of what comic book supervillians tended to be like in the 80s and 90s. In other words, very camp and theatrical with good screen presence. Okada's more psychopathic characters also feel like they're straight out of Arkham Asylum.

That's also true for Lupin III: Mine Fujiko to Iu Onna. Both that show and AKB0048 rarely get mentioned in this thread. Those are probably my favorite scripts by Okada.

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

She really is not stalled. She grew into someone who knows the real importance of her goal after she experienced some deaths, reality checks and a mindfuck first-hand and became street-smarter after "waking up" from her naiveté and idealism. And after realizing that her cause is actually bigger than what she thought before, she no longer held her idealized "let's go with the peaceful method where everybody can live"-way and she accepted the reality that she must talk & negotiate with Arbrau leaders about her people's rights no matter what and Gjallarhorn needs to be stopped and sacrifice (including Tekkadan kids) is needed to achieve victory for all the people whose lives depend on her action (sometimes literally). And she is certainly leagues better than that other damned (literal) Martian Princess (whereas Kudelia is not really a princess).

When did she ever have that view?

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Kurohane

When did she ever have that view?

Starting from the first episode and persist during the period where she's still willing to offer herself up to the Gjallarhorn . And then the show made a very clear conclusion/contrasting point of Kudelia's character growth in the penultimate episode where she refused to come along and keep fighting (verbally) even when she was threatened at axe-point by a giant Mobile Suit because doing that means it will defeat the purpose of her journey (not gonna spoil further).

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Starting from the first episode and persist during the period where she's still willing to offer herself up to the Gjallarhorn . And then the show made a very clear conclusion/contrasting point of Kudelia's character growth in the penultimate episode where she refused to come along and keep fighting (verbally) even when she was threatened at axe-point by a giant Mobile Suit because doing that means it will defeat the purpose of her journey (not gonna spoil further).

That instance was very situational though, and when Gjallarhorn (Crank) actually offered it.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Kurohane

That instance was very situational though, and when Gjallarhorn (Crank) actually offered it.

You forgot in episode 5 she proposed the same damn thing again to Orga (to give her to the Gjallarhon) the moment she witnessed that Tekkadan's shuttle being surrounded by Gjallarhorn's forces. In fact, episode 3 & 5 established that whenever she sees Tekkadan got forced into a corner by Gjallarhorn, she'll offer herself up to avoid any killings. It's not after a certain someone's death that she figuratively said "Fuck it!" to Gjallarhorn and other parties who kept pushing her around.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

She really is not stalled. She grew into someone who knows the real importance of her goal after she experienced some deaths, reality checks and a mindfuck first-hand and became street-smarter after "waking up" from her naiveté and idealism. And after realizing that her cause is actually bigger than what she thought before, she no longer held her idealized "let's go with the peaceful method where everybody can live"-way and she accepted the reality that she must talk & negotiate with Arbrau leaders about her people's rights no matter what and Gjallarhorn needs to be stopped and sacrifice (including Tekkadan kids) is needed to achieve victory for all the people whose lives depend on her action (sometimes literally). And she is certainly leagues better than that other damned (literal) Martian Princess (whereas Kudelia is not really a princess).

That's closer to my expectations.

It seems like you understand your mecha series well.

[karice67]

I find the distinction that some people seem to be making between IBO's Martian 'princess' and that other Martian princess rather ironic, considering that the latter basically went "Fuck it," too. But this isn't the thread to be discussing either of those series to that extent. Could you please keep it to Okada discussion here, and take IBO discussion back to the relevant sub-forum?

@SeijiSensei

If you were involved in the discussion for AKB0048 here (or elsewhere) as it was airing, might you be able to shed light on the following?

Originally Posted by karice67

I did come across something on AKB0048 that I'm a bit curious about though. On pages 4-5, people started referring to complaints by staff working on the show about Okada's work/attitude. I haven't seen the show, and a brief google search didn't net me anything, so could someone please tell me what that was about?

[SeijiSensei]

On pages 4-5 of the discussion here? I don't see any of that. In fact those postings are all from before the show aired. Are you perhaps referring to this? I wasn't paying attention to AKB0048 until the series aired, and the finished product didn't seem especially rushed in terms of screen writing.

I don't usually pay much attention to "inside baseball" discussions of staff and the like. I'm mostly interested in what I see on the screen. Whatever issues Okada may or may not have had with the staff, she also wrote half the scripts for the sequel, so someone (Kawamori?) must have liked her work for the first season.

Also there was a contingent of AKB48 otaku in that discussion who were talking about things I didn't care about like the actual group members, their representations in the show, etc., etc. I had never watched anything by AKB48 before watching the anime series, though I'll admit I liked the original "Manatsu no Sounds Good!" music video with its surreal combination of boobs, blood, bikinis and ballistic missiles. The director worked on Evangelion. It's almost impossible to find online; a Google search returns a link to JPopSuki, but I get a "500 server error" when I try to play it. There are other versions at places like YouTube, but not the original seven-minute long opus.

[Arya]

My bad, it was the Ohana reference that caught me off guard [EDIT] since I don't see any similarities.

[Last Sinner]

From what I recall, weren't Kawamori and Okada always at war with each other during Aquarion EVOL?

Pretty sure a lot of it stemmed from the main duo. That Okada thought it made so sense for them to ever be a couple, which lead to Kawamori angrily declaring that they simply were and handle it. Which lead to Okada intentionally writing things as she did to spite Kawamori.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

On pages 4-5 of the discussion here? I don't see any of that. In fact those postings are all from before the show aired. Are you perhaps referring to this? I wasn't paying attention to AKB0048 until the series aired, and the finished product didn't seem especially rushed in terms of screen writing.

Sorry, it started on page 3 of this thread, rather than 4... I had kept on browsing, and really should have checked carefully to make sure I'd gotten the right page. (In fact, I only now realise that that report was linked in that post in this thread... orz) My bad... m(_ _ )m

But yes, that does look like the right info....

In fact, that's been very helpful. I've used it to find a Japanese blogger who also wondered about the accuracy of the report and decided to look it up. Apparently, the following part was added by whoever who wrote the report you linked:

「それ伝えたらマリーブチ切れ」
'When they brought it up, Mari got really mad.'

TL;DR…

 

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

So it really seems like it was a baseless rumour. Thanks for finding that report for me!

As a sidenote: both Kawamori and Okada's (separate) Bandai Creator's Selection interviews suggest that they really enjoyed working together... (Just in case: Okada's is here. I'll eventually translate the Kawamori one as well, hopefully before the current Macross series ends.)

Originally Posted by Arya

My bad, it was the Ohana reference that caught me off guard [EDIT] since I don't see any similarities.

Sorry. I didn't think your comment was particularly problematic...until the others took it and ran with it back into straight character discussion on IBO. I just hoped to curb it before it got out of hand again, given that it apparently happened a few months back as well.

[Archon_Wing]

I was hoping to make light of the association made between two characters from 2 separate works that involved Mari Okada. I wasn't really trying to discuss IBO in particular as more as I wanted to take into context of what she brought to Gundam because I really couldn't draw any similarities at face value. I thought the chain of discussion offered new insight that's not possible just by discussing the show by itself.

But whatever.

[Arya]

Nah, it's my fault, Kudelia problems had been already addressed in this thread and this led to a long discussion about her, and not the author, that relentlessflame had to move into the right sub-forum. Karice was just trying to prevent it to happen again.

The fact is that I was not referring to what that character did, but how that character was written, that is a different thing.

To make it clearer back to the comparison, as you noted yourself there no similarities of sort between Ohana and Kudelia. But on a second thought it is the context/set-up that is similar: new family.
Both characters got introduced into a new family; Ohana with her grandmother and all the people that gravitate around Kissuisō, Kudelia into Tekkadan and its boys.

But the similarities end here, since Ohana interacted with all the other persons in Kissuisō, that was the point and what defined her, while Kudelia barely interacted with anyone apart for some harem shenanigans some romance-relating interactions with the MC and the plot-moving related ones.

So my stance about her character, that I consider more a plot device.
Especially since Okada was involved, considering what I consider her being good at, character to character dynamics and such (I wrote about it earlier). So not an example that could add insight about the writer, or better, not I can think of.

(as a side note, it's not a matter of liking or disliking a character, Mirage from Macross Delta has been subjected to a similar treatment so far, apart that she has no plot device rights, and I like her a lot, but my judgment about the writing about her as of now is in fact similar).

[Archon_Wing]

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/inte...graphy/.113359

Mari Okada: Origins

[Haak]

My impression from those excerpts is that Jun Naruse is basically teenage Okada.