Nanoha FanFiction Discussion

[Andarkoshi]

Mr. Coin

Originally Posted by Mr Coin

Lindy died... T_T
How it that plausible?

Time traveling? And who in the world did Alicia inherited her red eyes, and golden hair?

Just make the story, and make it believable to the readers as much as you possibly can. *raising the "Fund it" sign as high as possible.

Well Alicia inherited a lot of her personality from Precia while Fate... just look at the girl, kind-hearted, helpful can sacrifice herself for others and uses swords to fight bad guys.

Well if you really want to know about Shirou...

Spoiler for Information about the backstory of Fate/Stay Nanoha Emiya Shirou:

It is actually Dimensional Travel. Long story short this Emiya Shirou was childhood friends with Matou Sakura. He met her soon after Kiritsugu died and they became friends. Years passed, they played together, were happy and all, Sakura slowly began to love Shirou and wanted to confess but was afraid.

Then the Grail War came (I'm going with UBW scenario). Afterwards Sakura finally managed to gather up courage to confess to Shirou but when she tried...

"Ah... sorry Sakura, I'm flattered but I... I'm already with Tohsaka"

That... broke Sakura... badly. Over the next year she saw Rin slowly taking over her place in Shirou's life. After Shinji was discharged from the hospital (I changed things a bit, Illya survived and Shinji was never used as Grail but he got abused badly by Gilgamesh) he began to abuse her even more and Sakura having ENOUGH OF THIS went and struck back at him. She abused him back, Hard for what he did to her and Zouken quietly approved of that.

Shirou left with Rin for London, leaving the betrayed, broken Sakura behind. He lived, fought and even had a child with Rin. Then the Grail Conflict came.

Two groups of magi fought over the Grail ten years after the 5th War. One wanted to destroy it, the other claim it. Shirou along with Rin and Waver were on the former side. Zouken and Sakura on the latter, the old magus unleashed Sakura upon the Fuyuki out of spite. He activated her as Living Grail and even though she only got a bit of power from the Grail she used it well to abuse and kill those who went against her.

In the end Shirou and Sakura found themselves in the Great Grail cavern. Shirou tried to save her, he was convinced that Sakura was actually under the control of Angra and Zouken so he Rule breakered her... but she wasn't. She was insane, broken and wanted to use the Grail to make those who hurt her, abandoned her and betrayed her Suffer.

In the end Shirou killed her and destroy the Great Grail, but there was still power in it from the last two wars when the wishes were not fulfilled. With her dying breath Sakura wished to separate Shirou and Rin. Make it impossible for them to return to each other.

With that last bit of power Shirou was thrown into another universe, another dimension. Straight onto Mid-Childa.

There he wandered the streets, confused, hurt, traumatized and met a woman. She was so focused on reading a book that she didn't notice an incoming car. Shirou pushed her away but got hit instead.

After he was admitted into the hospital the woman, 20-something Precia Testarossa began visting him and... that's how things started.

Kuroi Hadou

I wouldn't worry too much about it. RB is off busy in Beast's Lair and doesn't seem interested in AS anymore, and I haven't seen dc around for at least several months. But you should go look up their stories on ff.net anyway. They're good examples of writing, and the character trauma is unrivaled.

I... think I will politely refuse, reading things like that would only make me RAGE, I have this bad habit or being pissed off when characters get hurt...
As for the red eyes, golden hair... I'll just blame it on genetics and weird inheriting...

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by Andarkoshi

I... think I will politely refuse, reading things like that would only make me RAGE, I have this bad habit or being pissed off when characters get hurt...

You get pissed off when you read about characters getting hurt... but you want to write it?

As for the red eyes, golden hair... I'll just blame it on genetics and weird inheriting...

*Warning: Partial biology lesson ahead*

You could do that quite easily. It'd just require both of them to have a parent that carries both the blonde hair gene and an eye color that had a sufficient enough lack of melanin. Precia herself is already borderline there. Red eyes aren't actually red: They're a complete lack of coloring (melanin) that doesn't hide the blood in the irises. Purple eyes like Precia's are caused by there being just enough blue to mix with that without overpowering it. For Alicia and in turn Fate to have red eyes, the genes Precia and Shirou passed onto her would need to completely strip that melanin back out.

What you should be a bit more concerned about, in my opinion, is the Shirou/Precia backstory.

[Andarkoshi]

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

You get pissed off when you read about characters getting hurt... but you want to write it?

Yeah I know it sounds rather ridiculous... but it may be a difference in approach. I DON'T know what will happen to the characters whom someone else writes and I don't know if they will recover. With me writing stuff I know what will happen and that I'll somehow reward the characters for suffering... and I think I might have a bit of a sadistic streak in me...

*Warning: Partial biology lesson ahead*

You could do that quite easily. It'd just require both of them to have a parent that carries both the blonde hair gene and an eye color that had a sufficient enough lack of melanin. Precia herself is already borderline there. Red eyes aren't actually red: They're a complete lack of coloring (melanin) that doesn't hide the blood in the irises. Purple eyes like Precia's are caused by there being just enough blue to mix with that without overpowering it. For Alicia and in turn Fate to have red eyes, the genes Precia and Shirou passed onto her would need to completely strip that melanin back out.

What you should be a bit more concerned about, in my opinion, is the Shirou/Precia backstory.

Mhm this Shirou probably already has white hair so it might affect his DNA which he passes to Alicia and Fate. Magecraft can do some screwy things to a human body.
As for the backstory, care to elaborate? [grabs a pen and notebook]

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by Andarkoshi

Yeah I know it sounds rather ridiculous... but it may be a difference in approach. I DON'T know what will happen to the characters whom someone else writes and I don't know if they will recover. With me writing stuff I know what will happen and that I'll somehow reward the characters for suffering... and I think I might have a bit of a sadistic streak in me...

RB and dc are about emotional trauma, not physical.

Mhm this Shirou probably already has white hair so it might affect his DNA which he passes to Alicia and Fate. Magecraft can do some screwy things to a human body.

Just so long as you've got something plausible.

As for the backstory, care to elaborate? [grabs a pen and notebook]

Well, the starting point is fine, but one of the absolute biggest things you need to figure out is where the hell Shirou was when Alicia died and afterwards. Every indication for the backstory (at least as far as I know) is Alicia's father wasn't around either before or after she died. In this case, deciding where Shirou was, how Alicia's death affected him, and why he wasn't around to stop the Fate Project and Precia's descent into madness are pretty major plot points you need to have the answers to ASAP. There's also the question of whether or not he recognizes Fate, her being a clone of his own daughter. If he doesn't, you need to decide why he doesn't, and if he does recognize her, you need to answer why he agonizes about whether or not to help her, which will likely tie into what I mentioned above. I'm sure there are more details you'll want to flesh out, but that's just off the top of my head, and the most important ones to boot.

[Lhklan]

^ You're oddly active Kuroi. Not that it's a bad thing, just wondering what happened.

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by Lhklan

^ You're oddly active Kuroi. Not that it's a bad thing, just wondering what happened.

I was bored with nothing to do, so I decided to swing by the fanfic thread to see what was happening lately.

[NorthernFallout]

Originally Posted by Andarkoshi

Yeah I know it sounds rather ridiculous... but it may be a difference in approach. I DON'T know what will happen to the characters whom someone else writes and I don't know if they will recover. With me writing stuff I know what will happen and that I'll somehow reward the characters for suffering... and I think I might have a bit of a sadistic streak in me...

I find this an interesting approach, if a bit antithesis to myself.

I rejoice in the suffering of characters and Everyone Can Die promises. Killing off my favorite character(s) in a horrible (and well-written) way often causes me to praise the work in question because it had the "courage" to do it (due to too many sugary and "good" ends in media I think). If they aren't even rewarded for their suffering, it's twice the pain and glory.

What I would like to suggest for you, though it's up to you if you want to go through with it, is to try and read and watch works that has that which you don't like, in this case that fear of yours. By doing that, yes you'll torture yourself kinda, but your own writing will be better off if you pick good examples. Avoiding those works might work against you.

In my case, this would be romance and well-done drama works, a weak point in my writing.

But that's my approach. Every writer has his own and if you're comfortable with what you're doing, do that.

And welcome. Excuse my ramblings.

[Lhklan]

^ You and Gen Urobuchi would get along swimmingly.

[Andarkoshi]

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

Well, the starting point is fine, but one of the absolute biggest things you need to figure out is where the hell Shirou was when Alicia died and afterwards. Every indication for the backstory (at least as far as I know) is Alicia's father wasn't around either before or after she died. In this case, deciding where Shirou was, how Alicia's death affected him, and why he wasn't around to stop the Fate Project and Precia's descent into madness are pretty major plot points you need to have the answers to ASAP. There's also the question of whether or not he recognizes Fate, her being a clone of his own daughter. If he doesn't, you need to decide why he doesn't, and if he does recognize her, you need to answer why he agonizes about whether or not to help her, which will likely tie into what I mentioned above. I'm sure there are more details you'll want to flesh out, but that's just off the top of my head, and the most important ones to boot.

That's what I get for being lazy... Not writing down the whole thing.

Anyway I've got that part figured out

Spoiler for More Backstory for Fate/Stay Nanoha Shirou:

Shirou doesn't even Know he has a daughter. It went like this.

After he recovered from his injuries and mental trauma a bit he REALLY wanted to go back to Earth. Precia was visiting him regularly and took a liking to him, he was kind but very very sad.

Precia helped him get to Earth and even went with him but... it was all wrong. There was no Magic Association, no Magi, Fuyuki probably didn't even exist. This was NOT his Earth. Afterwards, having nowhere to go and completely shocked by not being able to go back to his family he accepted Precia's offer to stay with her. She liked him and he did share some of his backstory with her, being a scientist she was curious about this man who came from a different universe and used magic so much different than the one of her world.

Shirou repayed her kindness with looking after her house And her. She could be a bit absent-minded when focused on her research so Shirou proved to be a great help to her. In time Shirou realized that there was no chance of going back, he did a lot of research, checked all kinds of things but came up with nothing. In the end he was stranded in a different dimension with no way to go back.

In the end Shirou grew to like Precia back, he felt guilty about "cheating" on Rin but the memories and trauma slowly faded and Precia Was rather enthusiastic in her attempts to seduce him.

But happy times couldn't last. One day Shirou got involved in something, a robbery, terrorist attack, something that awakened his desire to Save People. He dispatched the terrorists and disappeared into the crowd without anyone knowing who he was. But because of that incident he grew restless, he wanted to save people so he started going out. After several months he built up connections and resources necessary to function in the darker side of the world. But that brought unwanted attention to him.

He was attacked when he was with Precia, he fought off the assailants but Precia was gravely hurt because of that. He accompanied her into hospital and traced Avalon to help her. He cured her but was faced with a dilema, he would have to either abandon his ideals and stay with her, or continue but abandon Precia. He couldn't have both.

In the end he chose ideals, after making sure Precia was cured and okay he left.

What he didn't know was that Precia was carrying his child, Alicia. Precia was heartbroken when he left her but Alicia managed to cure her from that in time.

Several years later (I'm going with movie explanation) the reactor Precia worked on went into meltdown and killed Alicia.

Shirou did not know of any of this. He was out in the galaxy, saving people, taking down criminals, human traffickers, rogue scientists and others.

But that brought him a lot of unwanted attention, he was powerful, ruthless and absolutely scary, nothing like the TSAB mages. Between his device (made by Precia) Avalon and his "My body is made of swords" he was nearly unkillable and UBW provided him with efficient and extremely dangerous tools to fullfil his goal of Saving people.

But with time he grew ruthless, a couple of times he allowed some scientists or criminals get away because he priotizied saving hostages or something like that and THAT usually bit him in the ass because those he let escape either struck back at him, killing many people around him or were in possesion of dangerous lost logia or weapons.

With time he grew cold, ruthless, very much like Kiritsugu. But that only escalated the violence, his enemies were terrified of him and they could level buildings or attack populated places because he was or MIGHT have been there.

The breaking point was Emilia. At one point the various bad guys allied together to fight against Shirou and... Jail got involved. He was curious about Shirou who used strange magic and weapons he have never seen before. He helped the bad guys out, provided them with a variety of research avenues they could use. One of them were strengthened, high-performance cybernetics. They did not have time to make clones BUT they discovered a rare genetic defect which made people compatible with the cybernetics (I'm messing a bit with the "Genetic modifications necessary to make a cyborg" from canon) they kidnapped the girls, killed off the parents to cover their tracks and forcibly converted them.

The process was messy, very painful and lethal. Only around 30-40% of girls survived and even those were in constant pain because of the strain the cybernetics put on them.

They were actually just a stop-gap measure before the bad guys could figure out the Eclipse Virus. They kept sending the cyborg girls against Shirou as soon as they were finished with their training and modifications. All the girls were killed by Shirou and the memories of the killed were implanted into the ones who survived to make them more effective.

In the end Shirou found the facility which worked on that and completely wrecked it. Emilia, the last surviving girl managed to escape in the chaos. She ran and ran, she wanted to get back home, her body hurt all the time, her memories were in shambles, she was utterly broken. Then she arrived at her home planet and found her parents dead... that finally made her snap and she went after the ones who hurt her... with Shirou close on her heels. He chased her as she continued her murderous rampage and finally caught up with her and killed her.

But that broke him, he learnt of the things done to the girls, of the things the bad guys researched to stop him and... he could no longer go on. He stood in the midst of an ocean of blood, all of it because of him. He no longer saved, he only brought death and misery to those around him.

The world would have been a better place without him. He might have committed suicide but one little girl stopped him. Agito whom he saved from a lab some years back accompanied him until that point and stopped any suicide attempts.

In he end Shirou and Agito moved to Earth where no one could find him. There he lived peacefully in Uminari until Fate quite literally Fell from the sky. He was torn... he wanted to save her but was afraid of What would be the result of him getting involved.

In the end he decided to save her.

Northern Fallout

I find this an interesting approach, if a bit antithesis to myself.

What can I say, we humans are naturally born hypocrites after all ^^

While I do appreciate the advice... my imagination tends to spring up some nasty scenarios on me from time to time. Ones that make my blood run cold, I prefer not to give it Extra food. It's bad as it is.

[NorthernFallout]

@Lhklan: If only I was good at writing that is *sadface*

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by NorthernFallout

What I would like to suggest for you, though it's up to you if you want to go through with it, is to try and read and watch works that has that which you don't like, in this case that fear of yours. By doing that, yes you'll torture yourself kinda, but your own writing will be better off if you pick good examples. Avoiding those works might work against you.

In my case, this would be romance and well-done drama works, a weak point in my writing.

That will definitely help, but you'll get even better by actually writing and getting it critiqued by someone else. They have the advantage of a different POV and have an easier time pointing out weak points or flaws in writing compared to trying to find them yourself.

Originally Posted by Andarkoshi

That's what I get for being lazy... Not writing down the whole thing.

Anyway I've got that part figured out

Spoiler for More Backstory for Fate/Stay Nanoha Shirou:

*snip*

Ooookay, let's backup for a second, because I can see a much more serious problem at hand. You need to be very careful not to make Shirou a god mode sue here. A device, UBW, Agito, wrecking criminal syndicates more efficiently than the TSAB, even the TSAB is afraid of him, and dropping him into season one of Nanoha to boot? That's asking for a story without any drama or conflict, because Shirou could just solve everything by himself in one chapter.

[Lhklan]

@Tentacle monster
Yeah, scale back a bit. Back then I backed out of your discussion with shikyo because it was going way overboard.

@Kuroi
Hey, do you have any advice on how to write a SoL love story?

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by Lhklan

@Kuroi
Hey, do you have any advice on how to write a SoL love story?

... a what?

[Andarkoshi]

Ooookay, let's backup for a second, because I can see a much more serious problem at hand. You need to be [B ]very[/B] careful not to make Shirou a god mode sue here. A device, UBW, Agito, wrecking criminal syndicates more efficiently than the TSAB, even the TSAB is afraid of him, and dropping him into season one of Nanoha to boot? That's asking for a story without any drama or conflict, because Shirou could just solve everything by himself in one chapter.

[grins] That is the exact point here. Shirou is CHAINED by his power, he has crime syndicates running scared, willing to cause lots of collateral damage to get him. The point is that Shirou CAN'T use his power. He might get a bit involved in the first and second season but not much.

He has to stay under the radar PARTICULARLY now that he has a family. Imagine what would the criminals and bad guys do if they learnt that he has a family. A soft target they can strike at.

I made Shirou a God Mode Sue... and then made him Incapable of using his power. One wrong move, one slip up, one rumour about him being on Earth and all hell will break loose around him hurting all the people he cares about. What is the point of having power to take on Crime Syndicates if a single surprise attack can kill your entire family.

[Lhklan]

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

... a what?

Slice of Life. Basically no magic, no conflict, just every day life story.

[NorthernFallout]

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

That will definitely help, but you'll get even better by actually writing and getting it critiqued by someone else. They have the advantage of a different POV and have an easier time pointing out weak points or flaws in writing compared to trying to find them yourself.

Ofc. I take that as granted.

I myself currently have 2 chapters (6000+7000) being beta'd now, and they have been for close to two weeks or more. The importance of this cannot be overstated.

Which reminds me: If someone want beta/editor help, I'm still available.

[Lhklan]

Originally Posted by NorthernFallout

Ofc. I take that as granted.

I myself currently have 2 chapters (6000+7000) being beta'd now, and they have been for close to two weeks or more. The importance of this cannot be overstated.

Which reminds me: If someone want beta/editor help, I'm still available.

*Looks at own fic* Dude, you're still better than me. My Nanoha fics on FFnet have 5 chapters and it's only around 10k words.

As for the beta... what's your stand on shipping? Have to get that out of the way first, less I offend you or something.

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by Andarkoshi

[grins] That is the exact point here. Shirou is CHAINED by his power, he has crime syndicates running scared, willing to cause lots of collateral damage to get him. The point is that Shirou CAN'T use his power. He might get a bit involved in the first and second season but not much.

He has to stay under the radar PARTICULARLY now that he has a family. Imagine what would the criminals and bad guys do if they learnt that he has a family. A soft target they can strike at.

I made Shirou a God Mode Sue... and then made him Incapable of using his power. One wrong move, one slip up, one rumour about him being on Earth and all hell will break loose around him hurting all the people he cares about. What is the point of having power to take on Crime Syndicates if a single surprise attack can kill your entire family.

To be perfectly honest, that's a bad way of going about it. You've got an all-powerful bystander who's ability to influence the story is limited specifically because of that power. You've essentially wrote Shirou into such a corner his only role in the story is to be in it and give Fate a father. If you've got a character who's role is, in your own words, highly limited to begin with despite being one of the main characters, why bloat the cast and spend time writing that character to begin with when it could be spent on the characters that actually have an impact?

Originally Posted by Lhklan

Slice of Life. Basically no magic, no conflict, just every day life story.

Ahh, okay. Well, I do have some advice for you. The first thing and most important thing you need to figure out is who your pairing is. That'll give you your main characters, and in turn your supporting characters in the form of their friends and family. Once you have your characters, you can start building their interactions. Are they already together? If so, for how long and how serious are they? If not, will the story be about the process of them becoming a couple, or do they hook up near the beginning and go from there? From there, decide how you want their story to end. The journey from the start of the story to the destination will be your main plot thread. Your supporting cast are sort of like ripples in a pond that'll bounce off of the main relationship, influencing how it develops and even helping decide the bumps in the road that occur, and spin off their own side plots as the main relationship influences them as well.

Originally Posted by NorthernFallout

Ofc. I take that as granted.

I myself currently have 2 chapters (6000+7000) being beta'd now, and they have been for close to two weeks or more. The importance of this cannot be overstated.

Good man.

[NorthernFallout]

Originally Posted by Lhklan

*Looks at own fic* Dude, you're still better than me. My Nanoha fics on FFnet have 5 chapters and it's only around 10k words.

Eh, word count isn't that important. My current secret project will be my most qualitative one, but compared to, say, Xena or PhoenixFlare it's not too long... Well, I'm counting on 60.000 at least. At the pace I'm going it won't be done until 2014, though

As for the beta... what's your stand on shipping? Have to get that out of the way first, less I offend you or something.

I have my reservations for shipping, but when it comes to beta/editing it doesn't matter. If you manage to offend me, you can congratulate yourself; that's a hard thing to do.

[Lhklan]

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

Ahh, okay. Well, I do have some advice for you. The first thing and most important thing you need to figure out is who your pairing is. That'll give you your main characters, and in turn your supporting characters in the form of their friends and family. Once you have your characters, you can start building their interactions. Are they already together? If so, for how long and how series are they? If not, will the story be about the process of them becoming a couple, or do they hook up near the beginning and go from there? From there, decide how you want their story to end. The journey from the start of the story to the destination will be your main plot thread. Your supporting cast are sort of like ripples in a pond that'll bounce off of the main relationship, influencing how it develops and even helping decide the bumps in the road that occur, and spin off their own side plots as the main relationship influences them as well.

Thanks. I already have a pairing in mind (Given my track records, you should be able to figure out who and who), but it's the kinks in between that had me somewhat stumped (seeing as I've never been in a relationship in the first place. True facts )

I'm planning to have them hook up at the end, I think, since I have no idea where to go after that.

Thank you for your advice. I'll take it to heart.

@Northern.
Ah, okay. Thanks for answering. (Hopefully I won't offend you somehow. I can be really insensitive sometime, or so they say).