Sword Art Online II - Episode 2 Discussion / Poll

[Esebian]

Originally Posted by hamazura

more reason why dota is better haha
the reason MOBA player rage quit or start afk is that they dont want to waste any time struggling a pointless unwinnable match (for them, ebcause they are so fricking pessimistic)
but in GGO what? we dont know if there are any penalty for dying. that dyne and friends terrifified face is nonsense and stupid lol there is no reason to feel scared as they have nothing to lose, "its just a game" and gun fighting only last less than 5 minutes, wasting time is not a reason to by whiny coward in GGO
rather they should feel excited if they can beat that rambo bodyguard and gain some fame for themself

But there is a penalty for dying in GGO and you can even see it in the anime ;-)

At around 10:05 after Shinon's shot killed the one player who had the only anti-personnel gun, the gun drops and does NOT disappear with his body.

That means with each death you have a chance to drop your weapon or even more, like your whole gear.
Taking into account that you can exchange ingame money to real money and vice versa many guns most likely were not found but bought by ingame money - P2W at its finest - but that also means that by dying you can loose much money if your weapon or gear was that expensive.

[hamazura]

Originally Posted by Esebian

But there is a penalty for dying in GGO and you can even see it in the anime ;-)

At around 10:05 after Shinon's shot killed the one player who had the only anti-personnel gun, the gun drops and does NOT disappear with his body.

That means with each death you have a chance to drop your weapon or even more, like your whole gear.
Taking into account that you can exchange ingame money to real money and vice versa many guns most likely were not found but bought by ingame money - P2W at its finest - but that also means that by dying you can loose much money if your weapon or gear was that expensive.

yes, after reading kawahara's comment for episode 2
"The gun Dyne uses is the SIG SG550, one of the rarest assault rifles even in GGO. Good thing your guts stopped it from dropping, huh, Dyne!"
thats why dyne become coward, one of rarest gun, who wants to drop it? nobody!
i hate this kind of system, when i was playing ragnarok online during my childhood, my rare sword with +3 cards upgrade drop after i died

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

We know that STR is needed to get access to heavier and more powerful weapons and also to increase a character's carrying capacity. (an odd concept BTW. I've never encountered strength based "carry limits" in Japanese RPG, only western)

Well, GGO's from an American company.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Esebian

But there is a penalty for dying in GGO and you can even see it in the anime ;-)

At around 10:05 after Shinon's shot killed the one player who had the only anti-personnel gun, the gun drops and does NOT disappear with his body.

As long as the dropped items' ownership doesn't get automatically transferred to the killer, dying shouldn't be a problem if the team wins in the end (and you can trust them).

I wonder if Sinon could even carry that minigun, even then just carrying it should trigger the movement penalty...

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Well, GGO's from an American company.

True, but I was more surprised that a Japanese author knew of mechanics typical of western RPGs, maybe he's a fan of those.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

True, but I was more surprised that a Japanese author knew of mechanics typical of western RPGs, maybe he's a fan of those.

Reki Kawahara's gaming choices have come up multiple times in interviews, with his first MMORPG being Ultima Online. He's also played Ragnarok Online, Phantasy Star Online, World of Warcraft, Starcraft, Starcraft 2, and Diablo III. Likely others as well, mention of them simply hasn't made it's way onto text transcripts of interviews for easy retrieval.

In short, the author has played a bunch of fighting games, and MMORPGs, including primarily western ones. He's apparently primarily a PC gamer, who still uses IRC, and was buying hard drives for his computer back when they were in the double digit megabyte range.

[hamazura]

Originally Posted by Krono

Reki Kawahara's gaming choices have come up multiple times in interviews, with his first MMORPG being Ultima Online. He's also played Ragnarok Online, Phantasy Star Online, World of Warcraft, Starcraft, Starcraft 2, and Diablo III. Likely others as well, mention of them simply hasn't made it's way onto text transcripts of interviews for easy retrieval.

In short, the author has played a bunch of fighting games, and MMORPGs, including primarily western ones. He's apparently primarily a PC gamer, who still uses IRC, and was buying hard drives for his computer back when they were in the double digit megabyte range.

... stalker?

[Netto Azure]

It was in the Interviews and Authors notes IIRC.

[Burden]

Once again I come to conclusion that SAO would be better if the characters never talked. Which is honestly sad considering how good their voice actors are.

[bietchie11]

Originally Posted by Esebian

But there is a penalty for dying in GGO and you can even see it in the anime ;-)

At around 10:05 after Shinon's shot killed the one player who had the only anti-personnel gun, the gun drops and does NOT disappear with his body.

That means with each death you have a chance to drop your weapon or even more, like your whole gear.
Taking into account that you can exchange ingame money to real money and vice versa many guns most likely were not found but bought by ingame money - P2W at its finest - but that also means that by dying you can loose much money if your weapon or gear was that expensive.

You know that feeling when you have farmed 3600 and get killed.
Farm again, get 3700 and get killed.
Again, again, and again and now only 2600.
10 minute, no Radiance even when you are 100 gold close to the goal.
And a Rad is a serious bussiness. It changes your life. Kind of, if you get it before 20 minute mark. It win you the game.

But IRL combat or what GGO try to stimulate? It's just a gun man.
You don't necessary need a gun to kill people:
Going into action without a sword is improperly dressed. (Mad Jack)
Bare hand for the swag(Yogendra Singh Yadav).
Compared to actual death in previous game in SAO or live in perpetual frustration and inevitably losing round in DotA. It's no big deal.


P/S:
But of course, you always need to choose the suitable tactic, not standing in front of the muzzle and hoping for the best.. like a dumb ass.

[Esebian]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

But IRL combat or what GGO try to stimulate? It's just a gun man.

A gun that could have costed you 100$ or more? Yeah just a gun...
A gun that could be a 1-off in the entire game like Sinon's sniper? Yeah just a gun...

There are some people (not many) who play this game with the intention of living with what they "earn" inside, dropping their gun would be like dropping their wallet right after they got their monthly pay.

And last but not least: this is in a VR world; some people are already flipping tables when they are killed in a game right now, then think about how it is when they are really inside said game, running and shooting.

[eiyuuou]

When you lose your best equipment, you become weaker and easier to be PK'd again and again and again.
What penalty does DotA have, for you to claim it to be a big deal? The avatar dying once kills the player or deletes the account?


Imagine your friend used his savings to buy a ring to propose, got mugged and you tell him "it's no big deal man". I think that comment itself is rather insensitive.

[DMurphy]

I think there's a decent enough combination of factors to make someone nervous about dying in-game without it seeming too unreasonable:

In-game penalties, which could be quite steep if they scale up with level (as is the case in Accel World, which is a part of this universe).

A 'just a gut' reaction - people get nervous and frustrated about dying in video games now, it's one reason why survival horror games work so well. Imagine how much worse that'll be if it's a VR game where, apart from things like pain, it's as if you're actually there.

The Aincrad incident dwelling on his mind. I mean, Aincrad was a big thing: Hundreds of people get trapped in a game for, as I recall, over a year, and they keep dying. Every death would have shown up on the news. Everybody would be talking about it all the time. It'd end up impressed in the world's cultural consciousness very quickly - and GGO is made using the Seed, isn't it? I can see a few people getting on edge about it from time to time.

Death Gun, especially when combined with the above. Even if nobody believes it. Nobody really believes that saying 'Bloody Mary' in front of a mirror three times will get you killed, but some people still get nervous about it, and might well be even more nervous about it if a year earlier dozens of people had been found dead in their beds after Bloody Mary-ing at a mirror.

Just obstinately not wanting to die. I haven't played MMOs much, but I remember people absolutely hating it if another player killed them.


On their own, none of these things really explain his behaviour. Together, I think they kinda do.

[Znail]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

You know that feeling when you have farmed 3600 and get killed.
Farm again, get 3700 and get killed.
Again, again, and again and now only 2600.
10 minute, no Radiance even when you are 100 gold close to the goal.
And a Rad is a serious bussiness. It changes your life. Kind of, if you get it before 20 minute mark. It win you the game.

But IRL combat or what GGO try to stimulate? It's just a gun man.
You don't necessary need a gun to kill people:
Going into action without a sword is improperly dressed. (Mad Jack)
Bare hand for the swag(Yogendra Singh Yadav).
Compared to actual death in previous game in SAO or live in perpetual frustration and inevitably losing round in DotA. It's no big deal.


P/S:
But of course, you always need to choose the suitable tactic, not standing in front of the muzzle and hoping for the best.. like a dumb ass.

It's a matter of scale. Radiance may take you 10 mins to farm and affect the future 30mins of the game as after the game ends it doesn't matter anymore.

A gun in GGO can take you 1 month to farm if you are lucky and it will affect your future 6 months or more of proffessional game play. Maybe you wont even be able to keep being a pro player without that gun. The gun is many many times more important then that item for one game of dota. Unless that game had like $1'000'000 price pool on the line.

[relentlessflame]

I think I'm going to make another thread for the "gun talk", because this isn't really all that on-topic to things covered in the episode itself. Please wait for this re-organization to continue the tangent.

Edit: It's now moved to here.

[Rising Dragon]

You are FAR too early into the season to judge whether it's a failure or not yet.