[Manga] Chapter 439 Discussion

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by Mateus

Let's face it, the ramen girl/aka "true" threat to Naruto is actually the hottest female in this manga and not to mention deadliest, I mean she has access to your food so you don't necessarily know what she's putting in it

Ten-Ten... I think she's severly over looked...
/end topic

[cloak_and_dagger]

Originally Posted by Mateus

Let's face it, the ramen girl/aka "true" threat to Naruto is actually the hottest female in this manga and not to mention deadliest, I mean she has access to your food so you don't necessarily know what she's putting in it

Mateus knows what's goin on!

[Justin Kim]

Lol, no more speculation for Orchimaru please. Let's just say the really really annoying character was killed by Itachi. May he rest in peace, along with the other annoying/useless characters that were bound to die by Kishi. Seriously Orichimaru, reviving every single chapter after getting pounded annoyed the hell out of me.

[That Other Ninja]

I wouldn't call the person who provided Sasuke with the means to become as strong as he is now a useless character. The very same person who killed Sandaime Hokage and the bridge between fan favorites such as Kimimaro, Suigetsu, Juugo and perhaps even Karin and the other members of the Sound Five. The person who drives Kabuto to become what he has and who will more than likely play a part in some future event.

Far from it.

[Clixx]

Ten-Ten could kill us all...

[TooPurePureBoy]

Originally Posted by Clixx

Ten-Ten could kill us all...

True. But we are all just a bunch of dweebs on an internet message board.

@James

Temari is not ugly sir. Not at all.

[ShadowAssasin]

Originally Posted by That Other Ninja

I wouldn't call the person who provided Sasuke with the means to become as strong as he is now a useless character. The very same person who killed Sandaime Hokage and the bridge between fan favorites such as Kimimaro, Suigetsu, Juugo and perhaps even Karin and the other members of the Sound Five. The person who drives Kabuto to become what he has and who will more than likely play a part in some future event.

Far from it.

Yes, I really wish I could understand some people's thought process.

[Fran~]

Ramen Girl (Ayame) is hot...

But Naruko >>>> all....

[SpyderSidiouss]

Originally Posted by Mateus

Let's face it, the ramen girl/aka "true" threat to Naruto is actually the hottest female in this manga and not to mention deadliest, I mean she has access to your food so you don't necessarily know what she's putting in it

how about continuing your work in the "favorite female" thread, "will naruto get with sakura" thread, or the loads of Hinata threads? Some people would like to actually read/post about the curret plot in this thread, and not 15 year old little girls!

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

/end topic

Yeah, I agree. I think the conversation of lusting over 15 year old girls should end here too. Theres like 3-4 other threads for that right now already

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

Naruto needs another guiding figure in his life. Too bad such positions normally end up in death for the character in question. Here's hoping Kushina is alive somewhere to take on that role.

I think he should start guiding himself, kind of like Jiraiya did when he got to a certain level. He already went through pretty much more masters than anyone (and two of the most powerful ones), and learned S-Class level techniques from the frog and Jiraiya; and even started developing his own stuff. Plus his ability to learn things in 1/1000 the time, he should definitely start being his own master.

I like that scene of naruto (in the anime beginning.. or the ending scene i dont remember) when he had a tooth pick in his mouth and he walked by Sasuke. To me he looked like a traveling master on his way to enlightenment or something. Like when someone first becomes a master they go on a "personal journey" and on the way solves a bunch of town problems with bandits/thugs as they go along, reminds me of Jubei... But I don't think Jubei was worried about enlightenment, he was just a lazy wanderer lol.

He shouldn’t have huge a problem of creating his own new techniques now; all he has to do is think of one he wants to modify or improve, and develop it (which would still take long even for him). In my opinion he’s at the level of a young master that just got his black belt. Even if he loses this fight. The biggest thing he needs to develop now is the equation for peace. Then, he has to actually do it lol, this could take a while .

[ri0]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Speaking of which I really wonder what did the original Rikudo Sennin seal off

The ten-tailed pikachu?

[KingOfWorlds]

I Wonder if we'll find out a little something about Naruto's mother too...

[Mr. Johnny 5]

It is probably a tactical decision to make the women look not very attractive because if they would get too much fans then Kishi might create too much pressure on himself with his own women-are-useless-theory.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss

I think he should start guiding himself, kind of like Jiraiya did when he got to a certain level. He already went through pretty much more masters than anyone (and two of the most powerful ones), and learned S-Class level techniques from the frog and Jiraiya; and even started developing his own stuff. Plus his ability to learn things in 1/1000 the time, he should definitely start being his own master.

He shouldn’t have huge a problem of creating his own new techniques now; all he has to do is think of one he wants to modify or improve, and develop it (which would still take long even for him). In my opinion he’s at the level of a young master that just got his black belt. Even if he loses this fight. The biggest thing he needs to develop now is the equation for peace. Then, he has to actually do it lol, this could take a while .

-In general I agree that Naruto can become his own master, as far as training and creating his own style of fighting is concerned. However, that was not what I meant by "guiding figure". Even if he creates the most powerful jutsu ever to be witnessed in the Narutoverse he is still a human being. And like all human beings, there are going to be times where he will feel lost and unable to find an answer for his questions. This chapter proved that. Although his combat prowess has increased at an amazing rate he is still a 15-year old kid. This means that he can be affected by the various attrocities that exist in the world. Look at his reaction to Pain's story and questions, he is clearly not ready to be thinking about the world's troubles, much less how to solve them.

-This is why I said that Naruto needs a guiding hand now. He has learned that, although Pain had killed those close to him, he is really acting out the nature of the world that brought him up. Pain himself has admitted that the kind of punishment he brought down upon Konoha is the same as the one Naruto is trying to bring down upon him. Naruto at the moment is the he same as Shinji Ikari from Evangelion during the last 2 episodes of the series. He doesn't know what is the correct answer to Pain's question and it clearly is a difficult answer to find. After all, how would a 15-year old know how to expel hatered, sorrow and war from the world? This is why he needs guidence and if the series holds true to its initial themes, it will be his friends that allow him to reach that answer.

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss

I think he should start guiding himself, kind of like Jiraiya did when he got to a certain level.

I agree but Naruto is gonna have to start making his own decisions very quickly because Pain just mind raped him with all the talk about Peace and Naruto seems to be in need of another mentor. But I do beleive this talk he will have with the Fourth should help him with that and start him off on his own path.

BTW, did I mention? In Japan, Pain is the man, you clowns need to give him a hand!

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

-In general I agree that Naruto can become his own master, as far as training and creating his own style of fighting is concerned. However, that was not what I meant by "guiding figure". Even if he creates the most powerful jutsu ever to be witnessed in the Narutoverse he is still a human being. And like all human beings, there are going to be times where he will feel lost and unable to find an answer for his questions. This chapter proved that. Although his combat prowess has increased at an amazing rate he is still a 15-year old kid. This means that he can be affected by the various attrocities that exist in the world. Look at his reaction to Pain's story and questions, he is clearly not ready to be thinking about the world's troubles, much less how to solve them.

-This is why I said that Naruto needs a guiding hand now. He has learned that, although Pain had killed those close to him, he is really acting out the nature of the world that brought him up. Pain himself has admitted that the kind of punishment he brought down upon Konoha is the same as the one Naruto is trying to bring down upon him. Naruto at the moment is the he same as Shinji Ikari from Evangelion during the last 2 episodes of the series. He doesn't know what is the correct answer to Pain's question and it clearly is a difficult answer to find. After all, how would a 15-year old know how to expel hatered, sorrow and war from the world? This is why he needs guidence and if the series holds true to its initial themes, it will be his friends that allow him to reach that answer.

Guiding figures can only go so far in the series. Specifically, just look at Sasuke. Not only does he have some of the worst guidance counselors (one tried to posses his body, another brutally mind-fucked him, and the last has been the mastermind of Konoha's destruction since its inception), but he just sucks at taking advice in general (considering that he completely rejects any and all good advice that he receives). But, on the reverse side, we have pre-Narutorized Gaara, that solely lived for his own existence, never taking advice from anyone.

So, both extremes are bad.

Naruto, on the other hand, receives advice and then formulates his own opinion (one such example of this is found in the Gaara v Naruto fight, in which Naruto ponders over the advice handed down to him from Haku, and is able to establish his own opinion after analyzing Haku's words). And, in my opinion, Naruto has already received ample advice to formulate his own response to Pain (anyone that thinks that Kishimoto is actually going to provide an answer to the age old problem of hate is completely crazy and should be locked away. The best we can hope for is a Tales of Symphonia style ending in which Llyod has no idea how to defeat the world's prejudices, but he decides to continue fighting anyway.), the only thing holding him back is the same type of indecision that nearly cost him his life in the Gaara fight.

[That Other Ninja]

Logic would have us content with knowing that we can't expel hatred, sorrow and war from the world. Only the means by which we can try to avoid it as much as possible without using terrorism and homicide/genocide as a means for controlling an outcome.

It is interesting to see author's bring up situations and topics like these but in the end the protagonists motivation and answer is usually a cliche one like "I just want to protect those I care about." And I wouldn't put it past Kishimoto to end up with a scenario like that.

I think Ozymandias was the best iteration of ambiguous and antagonistic "world peace" so i'm interested to see how much more Pain will be developed for his portrayal at "saving" the world from itself. If he can/tries to pull it off as smoothly.



Well, actually at this point it isn't going over "smoothly" at all anymore so... Ozymandias wins in that dept.

[Apollian]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Ten-Ten... I think she's severly over looked...
/end topic

Termari and Anko are both hot as heck!

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by james0246

Guiding figures can only go so far in the series. Specifically, just look at Sasuke. Not only does he have some of the worst guidance counselors (one tried to posses his body, another brutally mind-fucked him, and the last has been the mastermind of Konoha's destruction since its inception), but he just sucks at taking advice in general (considering that he completely rejects any and all good advice that he receives). But, on the reverse side, we have pre-Narutorized Gaara, that solely lived for his own existence, never taking advice from anyone.

So, both extremes are bad.

Naruto, on the other hand, receives advice and then formulates his own opinion (one such example of this is found in the Gaara v Naruto fight, in which Naruto ponders over the advice handed down to him from Haku, and is able to establish his own opinion after analyzing Haku's words). And, in my opinion, Naruto has already received ample advice to formulate his own response to Pain (anyone that thinks that Kishimoto is actually going to provide an answer to the age old problem of hate is completely crazy and should be locked away. The best we can hope for is a Tales of Symphonia style ending in which Llyod has no idea how to defeat the world's prejudices, but he decides to continue fighting anyway.), the only thing holding him back is the same type of indecision that nearly cost him his life in the Gaara fight.

-Ah yes, Sasuke. Man, its been a good 40 something chapters that I even forgot he existed. What a memorable character he is . Jokes aside you do have a point there. Although, I would like to argue that the Gaara situation and the current one are vastly different in content and severity. Look at it this way; in his fight against Gaara, Haku's advice couldn't have been more clear-cut: "A person only becomes strong when they have something to protect". Hence, Naruto didn't have to go all batshit insane during that fight in order find an answer to Gaara's problems. But the current situation does not have such a clear answer. Certainly, he has received a general idea from Jiraiya (once people come to understand one another the fighting will stop). However, Pain has called this notion of peace impossible (or at least, quite difficult and time-consuming). What's more, he was able to shatter Naruto's optimistic view with a far grimmer one. As a result, Naruto is desperately trying to find his answer to Pain's question and is clearly failing. As such, he needs to hear another person's perspective before he can come to that conclusion.

-Mind you though, I agree that he needs to come to his own conclusion. However, that doesn`t mean that those that care about him cannot offer a helping hand. After all, how can singular entities like Naruto and Pain speak for the entire world?

[SpyderSidiouss]

Originally Posted by Apollian

Termari and Anko are both hot as heck!

…….Um, thanks for letting us know this very important information. Now I’ll just let you know that the fad already died, you can continue your work in the regular <lust over 15 year old girls> threads now(there should still be plenty around); we’re actually back on topic in this one…

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

And like all human beings, there are going to be times where he will feel lost and unable to find an answer for his questions. This chapter proved that. Although his combat prowess has increased at an amazing rate he is still a 15-year old kid. This means that he can be affected by the various attrocities that exist in the world. Look at his reaction to Pain's story and questions, he is clearly not ready to be thinking about the world's troubles, much less how to solve them.

-This is why I said that Naruto needs a guiding hand now. He has learned that, although Pain had killed those close to him, he is really acting out the nature of the world that brought him up. Pain himself has admitted that the kind of punishment he brought down upon Konoha is the same as the one Naruto is trying to bring down upon him. Naruto at the moment is the he same as Shinji Ikari from Evangelion during the last 2 episodes of the series. He doesn't know what is the correct answer to Pain's question and it clearly is a difficult answer to find. After all, how would a 15-year old know how to expel hatered, sorrow and war from the world? This is why he needs guidence and if the series holds true to its initial themes, it will be his friends that allow him to reach that answer.

Being a Master doesn’t mean you have all the answers, even Masters are still learning. I don’t see why he’s “not ready” to start thinking about what Pein was saying to him, I think its actually the perfect time for him to begin, because he basically accomplished pretty much everything else: hes become super powerful, hes finally contributed to the ninja world and made his own technique, etc.

You’re talking about how he doesn’t have the correct answer for Pein’s question, but even Jiraiya didn’t( and I don’t know who really would have one…). This is where naruto should become his own master and continue Jiraiyas work and hopefully finish it. He doesn’t really need a “guiding figure” like you say, he just needs to do his own research and be his own man now. Kinda like when a PHD student does their own research, and writes a dissertation.

And, I don’t think he’s at a disadvantage just because hes 15, you’d be surprised what young children can do especially if they’re not focused on bullshit like games and other distractions. Plus naruto is definitely not any ordinary kid. I mean look at Itachi...

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

I agree but Naruto is gonna have to start making his own decisions very quickly because Pain just mind raped him with all the talk about Peace and Naruto seems to be in need of another mentor. But I do beleive this talk he will have with the Fourth should help him with that and start him off on his own path.

BTW, did I mention? In Japan, Pain is the man, you clowns need to give him a hand!

I don’t think he got mind raped, he just didn’t know the answer that’s all. Its not like Pein manipulated him into doing something he didn’t want to do. Its great that he was stumped on that question, at that point. Hes sees how important it is first hand.

[Justin Kim]

Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss

…….Um, thanks for letting us know this very important information. Now I’ll just let you know that the fad already died, you can continue your work in the regular <lust over 15 year old girls> threads now(there should still be plenty around); we’re actually back on topic in this one…





Being a Master doesn’t mean you have all the answers, even Masters are still learning. I don’t see why he’s “not ready” to start thinking about what Pein was saying to him, I think its actually the perfect time for him to begin, because he basically accomplished pretty much everything else: hes become super powerful, hes finally contributed to the ninja world and made his own technique, etc.

You’re talking about how he doesn’t have the correct answer for Pein’s question, but even Jiraiya didn’t( and I don’t know who really would have one…). This is where naruto should become his own master and continue Jiraiyas work and hopefully finish it. He doesn’t really need a “guiding figure” like you say, he just needs to do his own research and be his own man now. Kinda like when a PHD student does their own research, and writes a dissertation.

And, I don’t think he’s at a disadvantage just because hes 15, you’d be surprised what young children can do especially if they’re not focused on bullshit like games and other distractions. Plus naruto is definitely not any ordinary kid. I mean look at Itachi...




I don’t think he got mind raped, he just didn’t know the answer that’s all. Its not like Pein manipulated him into doing something he didn’t want to do. Its great that he was stumped on that question, at that point. Hes sees how important it is first hand.

It's interesting though, we would suspect that Naruto would have learned the answer right now. The answer to Pain's question in actuality is that Naruto can create peace among the villages. I mean just look at Gaara and Naruto - first enemies - now really close friends that understand each other. Although Gaara is Kazekage, he still looks up to Naruto, hoping to become emotionally and physically strong like him. It's just because Naruto's nature of befriending his enemies has become so common - that he, himself does not realize it. If he probably told Pain the solution was to befriend your enemies, and realize their problems - Pain would probably scoff it off. The problem with Pain's idealistic viewpoint is simply - he cannot justify his own actions, when he killed others just to get what he wanted. Simply, it's a matter of different viewpoints. But Naruto has a "special ability," to create friends ever since he was isolated by his own village.