[Manga] Naruto Chapter 688 Discussion Thread

[randomdude24]

Originally Posted by dniv

Well, I just thought what happened wasn't that hard to believe/accept.

We know that Obito has a stash of tons of eyes that he stole from the Uchiha clan when he massacred them. So he just used his Kamui to move them to Kakashi, which makes sense. It is very possible that he gave them to himself first before giving them to Kakashi which could let Kakashi have the EMS, but that hasn't happened yet, which would make sense from my first explanation, of them being moved to him by using the Kamui.

Either way, even if it makes sense in-story, this is all still BS.

But it's all hilarious BS, so it's okay. I will continue reading this if not just for everyone's weekly reactions to this.

*Munches on Popcorn*
*Passes the Beer*
*Goes to DVR and prepares to select the best recording*

Lol, fast escalation.

If that happens that would make things worse...so your saying obito who is a spirit is going to walk over to his lab with the stored eyes grab a pair walk back and then shove them into kakashi's eyes?

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

edo-madara explicitly says he has his brother's eyes

Yes, i just had to check again, its chapter 624, i totally forgot that

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

kakashi got MS when obito did when he saw Rin killed. kakashi just didn't know it and must have stumbled upon it while training. it's very different than him awakening it on his own

Well Kishi found a nice way to somehow put that in, just like he did with Sasuke awakening his sharingan for a moment on the night of the Uchiha massacre. But the point was that Kakashi really got his MS upgrade from nowhere at the beginning of part 2 of the manga. So if most of us accepted that upgrade and others that i mentioned in the previous post then this new upgrade he got shouldn't be so much different.

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

i agree here. it's highly possible that kakashi is using obito's chakra right now

There's so much godlike stuff going on at the finale of this war that we can take the combination of powerups and just say that all that shit makes Kakashi's upgrade reasonable
I mean Obito was the new Sage for some time, Sasuke got the super-rinnegan (the rinnegan with the dots), Naruto can just regrow body parts and heal people that even Tsunade would not be able. Madara could use rinnegan powers with no eyes. And of course we are inside the worlds created by Kaguya, which could also be classified as some half-genjutsu magic world (since the Narutoverse surely doesn't have any part with high gravity, assuming its a normal planet with no gravity anomalies), so magic things are more likely to happen in crazy magic worlds

Originally Posted by randomdude24

Now that I think about even with his chakara its still a gamble for him to use sussanno having chakara doesn't improve your stamnia at all..according to the databooks Kakashi's stamnia is like 3 which is like chunnin level so either way he shouldn't be able to do it.

It's not like everybody gets stronger but Kakashi stays the same. He's getting stronger too, both skills with sharingan and chakra level seem to be upgraded from time to time. Kakashi is not one of those side characters that stay at the same level the whole time, he's part of the main cast, so shonen manga powerups apply to him too. I didn't expect that he will get so many powerups but apparently he's very popular among the readers so i guess the author had no choice

[JustRob]

I don't agree with your comparison of Kakashi's gaining MS and this new double MS / EMS power up. At the beginning of part 2 Kakashi was bedridden for a week after two shots of Kamui. For me, that was acceptable, and as long as no reason was given for his MS, I surmised that it was up in the air and at the very least acceptable.

But this, him suddenly gaining two MS / EMS from a dude who already died, and pulling a perfect complete Susano out of his ass without any prior experience, is ridiculous. Far more ridiculous than him simply gaining the MS in my opinion.

[ranchan13]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Well Kishi found a nice way to somehow put that in, just like he did with Sasuke awakening his sharingan for a moment on the night of the Uchiha massacre. But the point was that Kakashi really got his MS upgrade from nowhere at the beginning of part 2 of the manga. So if most of us accepted that upgrade and others that i mentioned in the previous post then this new upgrade he got shouldn't be so much different.

To be honest, I attributed Kakashi awakening MS to his moniker of "Copy Ninja" and him allowing Itachi to catch him in the Tsukuyomi. I was able to ignore the bloodline because Kakashi had the eye. He might not have the bloodline, but he does have the eye's abilities, why couldn't he copy MS?

Now, his MS power made absolutely no sense till the whole Trollbito thing.

[milan kyuubi]

Announcement

Apparently, next week (11th - 17th August 2014) Obon festival is held in Japan meaning that most likely there won't be a new Naruto chapter as serialisations are put on hiatus for the holiday.

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Well Kishi found a nice way to somehow put that in, just like he did with Sasuke awakening his sharingan for a moment on the night of the Uchiha massacre. But the point was that Kakashi really got his MS upgrade from nowhere at the beginning of part 2 of the manga. So if most of us accepted that upgrade and others that i mentioned in the previous post then this new upgrade he got shouldn't be so much different.


There's so much godlike stuff going on at the finale of this war that we can take the combination of powerups and just say that all that shit makes Kakashi's upgrade reasonable
I mean Obito was the new Sage for some time, Sasuke got the super-rinnegan (the rinnegan with the dots), Naruto can just regrow body parts and heal people that even Tsunade would not be able. Madara could use rinnegan powers with no eyes. And of course we are inside the worlds created by Kaguya, which could also be classified as some half-genjutsu magic world (since the Narutoverse surely doesn't have any part with high gravity, assuming its a normal planet with no gravity anomalies), so magic things are more likely to happen in crazy magic worlds


It's not like everybody gets stronger but Kakashi stays the same. He's getting stronger too, both skills with sharingan and chakra level seem to be upgraded from time to time. Kakashi is not one of those side characters that stay at the same level the whole time, he's part of the main cast, so shonen manga powerups apply to him too. I didn't expect that he will get so many powerups but apparently he's very popular among the readers so i guess the author had no choice

Iruka is inexplicably popular with the readers. Where is his Sussanno dammit?

But the best defense of this chapter is that we have seen plenty of ridiculous things in the manga that make no sense. Especially the past 30 chapters with magic ghosts waging an eternal war, and the horribleness of the Kaguya storyline. So why should what Kakashi and Obito did, be any different compared to all the other horsecrap?

But for some reason, this chapter struck a cord and got more negative feedback than any Naruto chapter I have ever seen. That tells me it was over the top and too much BS, even for Kishi. He just pushed his audience too far. But hey, what does he care? He is ending this thing and there will probably be some sort of Part 3 that he might have no real part of.

Originally Posted by randomdude24

Next chapter Sakura gets the byakugan...i'm done

I would love that only for the NaruSaku vs. NaruHina fandom lulz.

[Shinagami]

Based on most of the arguments here I don't know how people can even begin to compare Hagoromos power to Obito I mean Obito didn't even have both rinnegans which the sage was born with, he didn't even posses indra chakra to make him whole, he didn't even have the rinnegan/sharingan third eye like the sages and the sage was born from a godlike being... So comparison between the two is stupid... So far everyone who has obtained EMS has received transplants from their brother and Kakashi shouldn't even be able to maintain susanoo with his chakra levels even if he is using Obitos chakra that still shouldn't be enough because even Sasuke with Indras chakra could only manifest half of susanoo for some time.... It wouldve been better if Kishi made Kakashi use kamui instead or probably Kakashi will die after using susanoo

[randomdude24]

Originally Posted by Shinagami

Based on most of the arguments here I don't know how people can even begin to compare Hagoromos power to Obito I mean Obito didn't even have both rinnegans which the sage was born with, he didn't even posses indra chakra to make him whole, he didn't even have the rinnegan/sharingan third eye like the sages and the sage was born from a godlike being... So comparison between the two is stupid... So far everyone who has obtained EMS has received transplants from their brother and Kakashi shouldn't even be able to maintain susanoo with his chakra levels even if he is using Obitos chakra that still shouldn't be enough because even Sasuke with Indras chakra could only manifest half of susanoo for some time.... It wouldve been better if Kishi made Kakashi use kamui instead or probably Kakashi will die after using susanoo

I am glad I wasn't the only one concerned lol

[DragoMuseveni]

In manga it says that it may be temporal the MS that kakashi posses , and also knowing kakashi chakra it wont be able to mantain it more that 3 minutes

[justavisitor]

but remember Obito wants Kakashi to live longer so that obito and rin won't get interrupted in afterlife, so who knows, that "temporal gift" might mean a life time XD

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by DragoMuseveni

In manga it says that it may be temporal the MS that kakashi posses , and also knowing kakashi chakra it wont be able to mantain it more that 3 minutes

I'm sure it's meant to be permanent, it was even stated that he is "sharingan kakashi". Also now that Obito got his happy ending Kakashi surely won't die for a long time. And most likely Kakashi will keep using the sharingan only when nothing else works, as a last resort in battle, that's his limit and also his style of fighting that we always knew. BTW it's funny how that damn mask he has is still on despite all the shit happening around

Well, i didn't like either Kakashi being able to pull out a susano like that, and i think considering the circumstances that was the only "BS" thing in this chapter. I think when Naruto and Sasuke are around Kishimoto just makes other characters plot devices for them. Sakura who's usually strong on her own immedately becomes "damsell in distress", etc., and now just to teach Sasuke a life lesson Kishimoto gave Kakashi susano. I think teaching Sasuke a lesson could have been done in a more realistic way. For example the last time when he was saved from a random dimension by Obito and Sakura who he deemed useless and expendable was much more realistic than giving susano/EMS to Kakashi.

[Shinagami]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

I'm sure it's meant to be permanent, it was even stated that he is "sharingan kakashi". Also now that Obito got his happy ending Kakashi surely won't die for a long time. And most likely Kakashi will keep using the sharingan only when nothing else works, as a last resort in battle, that's his limit and also his style of fighting that we always knew. BTW it's funny how that damn mask he has is still on despite all the shit happening around

Well, i didn't like either Kakashi being able to pull out a susano like that, and i think considering the circumstances that was the only "BS" thing in this chapter. I think when Naruto and Sasuke are around Kishimoto just makes other characters plot devices for them. Sakura who's usually strong on her own immedately becomes "damsell in distress", etc., and now just to teach Sasuke a life lesson Kishimoto gave Kakashi susano. I think teaching Sasuke a lesson could have been done in a more realistic way. For example the last time when he was saved from a random dimension by Obito and Sakura who he deemed useless and expendable was much more realistic than giving susano/EMS to Kakashi.

From the whole Sasuke and Kakashi thing I kind of get the point because earlier Sasuke didn't respect Kakashi for nothing with him being useless and all...this is probably so that Sasuke can respect Kakashi again or probably have Sasuke go crazy with non-uchiha hatred so we can remember that Sasuke is an evil guy. Hopefully its not permernant

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Shinagami

Based on most of the arguments here I don't know how people can even begin to compare Hagoromos power to Obito I mean Obito didn't even have both rinnegans which the sage was born with, he didn't even posses indra chakra to make him whole, he didn't even have the rinnegan/sharingan third eye like the sages and the sage was born from a godlike being... So comparison between the two is stupid...

I'm not sure why it is stupid. Despite Obito's shortcomings, he still, for a brief time, possessed more chakra than all the living creatures on the planet (or whatever nonsensical scale is used to describe the Jyuubi's chakra levels). And whether he used that power effectively or not (he didn't), having such power flow through him could quite conceivably leave behind something that could be used to do whatever crazy thing he did in this chapter. Obito just happened to use an extremely watered down version of a technique we've now seen the Sage use.

Originally Posted by Shinagami

So far everyone who has obtained EMS has received transplants from their brother and Kakashi shouldn't even be able to maintain susanoo with his chakra levels even if he is using Obitos chakra that still shouldn't be enough because even Sasuke with Indras chakra could only manifest half of susanoo for some time.... It wouldve been better if Kishi made Kakashi use kamui instead or probably Kakashi will die after using susanoo

"So Far" is the key here. We once believed that the only way to gain the MS was to kill the one most precious to you (we also used to believe in only 3 MS techniques, and a slew of other "facts" abotu the Sharingan that have, if not been disproven at leats been shown to be far more subjective than originally described), but as pretty much everyone but Madara (and Kakashi to an extent) has shown, that is not true. Sasuke only gained his MS after realizing the sacrifices his brother made for him; Itachi gained his MS by watching his best friend kill himself (Shisui); Obito gained his MS after watching his best friend kill his love. And while the act of directly inserting anothers eyes has been shown multiple times (well, technically only once, but Madara and others were said to have used the same procedure), we have also now seen chakra being directly placed within another resulting in a change of bloodline (Sasuke gaining the Rinnegan).

I do not think it is too far of a stretch (based on what we've seen in the series so far) for Obito, using vestigial powers left from the Jyuubi (or possibly even from when Naruto inserted some Sage chakra into him), to "gift" his chakra to Kakashi which resulted in Kakashi being able to utilize the EMS.

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by james0246

I'm not sure why it is stupid. Despite Obito's shortcomings, he still, for a brief time, possessed more chakra than all the living creatures on the planet (or whatever nonsensical scale is used to describe the Jyuubi's chakra levels). And whether he used that power effectively or not (he didn't), having such power flow through him could quite conceivably leave behind something that could be used to do whatever crazy thing he did in this chapter. Obito just happened to use an extremely watered down version of a technique we've now seen the Sage use.



"So Far" is the key here. We once believed that the only way to gain the MS was to kill the one most precious to you (we also used to believe in only 3 MS techniques, and a slew of other "facts" abotu the Sharingan that have, if not been disproven at leats been shown to be far more subjective than originally described), but as pretty much everyone but Madara (and Kakashi to an extent) has shown, that is not true. Sasuke only gained his MS after realizing the sacrifices his brother made for him; Itachi gained his MS by watching his best friend kill himself (Shisui); Obito gained his MS after watching his best friend kill his love. And while the act of directly inserting anothers eyes has been shown multiple times (well, technically only once, but Madara and others were said to have used the same procedure), we have also now seen chakra being directly placed within another resulting in a change of bloodline (Sasuke gaining the Rinnegan).

I do not think it is too far of a stretch (based on what we've seen in the series so far) for Obito, using vestigial powers left from the Jyuubi (or possibly even from when Naruto inserted some Sage chakra into him), to "gift" his chakra to Kakashi which resulted in Kakashi being able to utilize the EMS.

Yeah I I am think that "vestigial" power is simply knowledge/awareness that's inherent with the sages abilities. Kinda like how obito "knew" naruto was short the one and eight tail chakra when he stole them from madara. He was previously clueless.

But as others have stated Kakashi may just be an avatar. We seem obito in chakra form when he returns to earth and we then see that form jump into Kakashi. But my guess is which is also why obito apologizes to Rin. He is gonna fight alongside Kakashi until the chakra runs out

[james0246]

Just as a reminder there are no spoilers this week.

[DKN117]

Does "no spoilers" mean "no chapter"?

[milan kyuubi]

Originally Posted by DKN117

Does "no spoilers" mean "no chapter"?

See this...

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

Announcement

Apparently, next week (11th - 17th August 2014) Obon festival is held in Japan meaning that most likely there won't be a new Naruto chapter as serialisations are put on hiatus for the holiday.

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by james0246

"So Far" is the key here. We once believed that the only way to gain the MS was to kill the one most precious to you (we also used to believe in only 3 MS techniques, and a slew of other "facts" abotu the Sharingan that have, if not been disproven at leats been shown to be far more subjective than originally described), but as pretty much everyone but Madara (and Kakashi to an extent) has shown, that is not true. Sasuke only gained his MS after realizing the sacrifices his brother made for him; Itachi gained his MS by watching his best friend kill himself (Shisui); Obito gained his MS after watching his best friend kill his love. And while the act of directly inserting anothers eyes has been shown multiple times (well, technically only once, but Madara and others were said to have used the same procedure), we have also now seen chakra being directly placed within another resulting in a change of bloodline (Sasuke gaining the Rinnegan).

I do not think it is too far of a stretch (based on what we've seen in the series so far) for Obito, using vestigial powers left from the Jyuubi (or possibly even from when Naruto inserted some Sage chakra into him), to "gift" his chakra to Kakashi which resulted in Kakashi being able to utilize the EMS.

If this is the case, why couldn't Kishimoto simply explain this in the manga? We have seen him waste numerous panels explaining far more mundane things.

On the surface, here is what we just read. Obito dies. He becomes 13 years old again and immediately meets Rin in the afterlife. He then decides he wants to head back and uses kamui. He meets a 13 year old Kakashi and magically gives him the EMS in both eyes. We then see the current Kakashi with EMS in both eyes. He then preforms a perfect susanoo, something even Itachi could not do.

It is up to the readers to figure out what the hell just happened. That is why there was such a massive backlash. Some have speculated that Obito passed on some of his chakra to Kakashi. That is why a non-Uchiha with notorious stamina problems, can now do ridiculously powerful techniques with little drawback. Which jives with it being temporary. But none of it was explained, so it is guesswork. Others have said that Obito was able to leave the afterlife and travel back because Kaguya's dimensions are not the real world. So the same rules don't apply. Okay, but again, this is just speculation.

Of course we should know by now that chakra is basically capable of almost anything, and there is no real explanation. As someone wrote many years ago about Naruto, Shikamaru has a 5 minute time limit on the kagemane, until he doesn't.

[GDB]

Give him another chapter. He was clearly using this as a cliffhanger this chapter, so it's not like he'd be able to explain it.

It'd be like telling a joke, and explaining the punchline before you even got to the punchline.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by GDB

Give him another chapter. He was clearly using this as a cliffhanger this chapter, so it's not like he'd be able to explain it.

It'd be like telling a joke, and explaining the punchline before you even got to the punchline.

yea i agree. this chapter was supposed to be surprising. we'll surely get an explanation for this. for now, my theory is that kakashi is using obito's chakra to make the perfect susano'o. it will run out, but he will still have the EMS and be able to use at least kamui in the future with his own chakra. i doubt he'll be able to do susano'o on his own, but with EMS he can now use kamui forever without going blind. he could probably use susano'o in the future if naruto gives him chakra though