2013-01-10, 09:17 | Link #322 |
Endless
Join Date: May 2004
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You're not putting up a good fight here.....
A better defense for your stance would be based on what is known about Nagato and Naruto rather than speculating on what isn't. You based your stance on the Rivive jutsu to consume a lot of chakra when nothing has stated that. You also try to say Naruto didn't have any chakra left when in fact it was quite the opposite. A better approach would be to say: based on what is known about Edo Nagato, how much of a chakra difference between Naruto and Nagato is irrelavant. Chakra capacity is a none issue for him when he can just siphon Naruto's. See how much stronger your arguement could be when you base it on know facts rather than assumption? |
2013-01-10, 09:25 | Link #324 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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What has Naruto got against Konan that you are so confident that he will defeat her? He doesn't have the toads with him for their saliva, he hasn't got anything beside shadow clones and rasengan which he already used way too many times. What evidence are you basing Naruto sure shot victory on? He has NEVER fought Konan. Sage mode requires time and concentration. Seriously don't talk about facts and assumptions when you are perfectly fine with ignoring the facts yourself. Oh and if you are going to say that Naruto could have defeated Konan in that state without sage mode then, we have no argument.
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2013-01-10, 09:35 | Link #325 |
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Join Date: May 2004
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I MAYBE underestimating Konan. It can concede that but based on what I have seen she just isn't that impressive. In the two fights she has been in she has been.... Weak. What does naruto have to counter her paper? How about just blow them away with his wind release?
And why do you insist Naruto didn't have sage mode or 9 tails? He clearly did.... I mean I even posted a pic. Konan's strength is an opinion. We can debate that. But Naruto still have loads of chakra is not an opinion. It's a straight fact. |
2013-01-10, 09:45 | Link #326 |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Somewhere far far away
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^ And you were telling me that I wasn't putting up a good fight
Blow her up =_= Well I couldn't care less anyway. Naruto is the hero of this manga. He wins by default no matter what enemy he's facing. I tire of you ridiculing Konan's strength based on her fight with Jiraya(I'm guessing). Just because Jiraya had the perfect counter against her, makes her weak? lol As I said believe what you want..........This argument is finished
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2013-01-10, 12:27 | Link #329 | ||||
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Join Date: May 2003
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But then you do realize that you've just agreed with James right? He didn't say Nagato and Konan would have won had they chose to figh (as you say we can't tell for sure, unless word of god it's a matter of perception), he said they chose not to fight because Naruto convinced them and thus gave up. Last edited by Hunter; 2013-01-10 at 14:45. |
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2013-01-10, 15:48 | Link #333 | |||
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Join Date: May 2004
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2013-01-10, 18:14 | Link #335 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hidden Village of Sake
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I think this is really a matter of opininon, i think that they were both at their limits but Nagato had the advantage because if he decided to go for the kill instead of capture his rinnegan powers at point blank range would have been very effective (just remember Edo-Nagato: he could absorb KillerBee's chakra and make it his own, also he could easily capture both of them while being immobile by using all 6 paths of his power simultaneously), and also i would not underestimate Konan against an exhausted Naruto. Sure Naruto for a brief moment combined the kyuubi powers with sage mode, but it was already stated a few times that if the kyuubi is not his friend then the kyuubi's chakra and nature chakra both have to be balanced out by his own, and at that point his own chakra was already low, since a short time after all that he collapsed while returning to the village. |
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2013-01-10, 20:55 | Link #336 | |
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Join Date: May 2003
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I'm not saying that fighting is all there is to character development in this kind of series but in order to have character growth you need the spotlight and for that you need fight scenes 95% of the time. |
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2013-01-10, 21:18 | Link #337 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: UK
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If Naruto wasn't a fighting manga then it wouldn't look like Sakura did little in Naruto as she doesn't get enough spotlight. I was talking about this on a different forum as well. |
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2013-01-13, 01:19 | Link #338 | |
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Join Date: May 2004
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I personally feel it was when Shinkamaru cheered Naruto up after Jiraiya's death made the most impact. After that I thought: this kid is really turning into decent guy. That moment never happened with Sakura despite being in almost the same amount of fights. |
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2013-01-13, 05:43 | Link #339 |
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Join Date: May 2003
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No it really doesn't. At the time her fight with Sasori impressed most people even many of those who can't stand the character, her downfall (or to be more precise the return to her pathetic status quo) is due to the fact that it was a one time thing after which she was never given anything but feeble lines and being all around useless to anybody.
Shikamaru however has been given more fighting scenes than any other character save from the the main ones and continuous positive exposition in all his regular appearance. Let's put this simply do you actually believe we would be talking about Shikamaru right now if he hadn't had all his fighting scenes in part 2 and only talked to Naruto for 2 panels in this scene you mention? Of course not. But while fighting scenes are the backbones of the characters, those little scenes (and this one is clearly not the most important of all for Shika) are fleshing them out. Taken individually they don't matter much but as a whole they are very important for his characterization but (and this is the point I'm coming across since the beginning) the author won't bother with them much unless fight scenes, spotlight, etc. And this is a side note but guilt trip Naruto? What are you talking about? She didn't guilt trip Naruto, she guilt tripped herself after believing Sai (Sai! I mean what the hell?) when he told her Naruto was running after Sasuke because of her. That was one the worst written and more cringe worthy scene in the entire story and Naruto somehow managed to make it worse when he fainted over thinking about Sasuke too much (something I have seen people blame Sakura as well probably because she's such an easy target) but guilt trip? Explain. |
2013-01-13, 13:29 | Link #340 |
Inactive Member
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Who had more development during the war? Fellow third tier players Hinata or Choji? Choji had a growth fight and Hinata did not. I know it's tricky since Hinata has millions of fans and Choji has almost none, so that can influence things, but it feels like Hinata got the better development without having to fight.
I think it has to be the right type of fight. Choji's growth fight was terrible. It wasn't about overcoming any odds. They had Asuma beat within seconds. Choji then cracked and sobbed like a wuss for three chapters, nearly getting Shika and Ino killed, before Kishi gave him a ridiculous looking powerup; and then rushed through the ending. Compared to Choji's very effective butterfly mode powerup moment against Juubo, which connected with readers because of his friendship with Shikamaru, it was silly and asinine. Fat guy cries, fat guy nearly gets everyone killed by being incompetent, fat guy gets told to man up, fat guy grows huge butterfly wings. Yuck. Another crappy brick in Shippuden's porous wall. Even though it was a fight, I don't think it compares to Hinata's cheesy heroine moment. Yes, Shikamaru is the most developed and important of the K11 outside of Naruto and Sakura because he had the most fights. But it was the type of development he received during those fights where it felt more like something you would see with Sasuke and Naruto. The same can be said with Gaara who is also on that level of secondary importance. Just having a character fight isn't enough. Last edited by Ulquiorra; 2013-01-13 at 13:40. |
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