(CR) Boogiepop wa Warawanai

[Last Sinner]

Originally Posted by shmaster

Asukai and Minahoshi has different goals.

What you stated above is only Asukai's goal, which isn't too different from EVA's Human Instrumentation. The same main stream topic during that time.

But Minahoshi is far more complicated, and to thoroughly discuss her will involve topics outside what the anime is going to cover.
To put it in simple terms without spoling; her ideology is based on spiritualism and concept of self. With issue over trust as a conflict over her ideology (which is why she initially choose Asukai as her accomplice).

But the "treating the symptom but not a cause" is also a major problem that this series is demonstrating. Even the Boogiepop is no exception to this problem.
Which is also the conflict between him and Minahoshi.

Eva was the obvious elephant in the room on that issue. It was also prominent in the Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex series.

The girls being altered to no longer feel fear and to adhere to a certain way certainly resonated with me. Fear can certainly be a major negative, but without it, you can't have courage, a major positive. You need negative aspects for the positive sides of it to exist. Otherwise, in a coalesced existence, while there would be no pain, there would be no feeling, no identity, no meaning. Pain and negative feelings/experiences are a necessity to be able to feel the positives. Something that Jin has abandoned and that Imaginator usurped without hesitation.

I guess the 'symptom over the cause issue' does resonate within all the major players. Boogiepop is passive about it, while Nagi seems to have an overriding issue with people in general that prevents her from even considering the cause. Jin suppresses the symptoms and he is coercive about it. While people have to submit in order for Imaginator to be able to affect them, once they do their will and identity are subverted. Certainly, there is an issue of no one really looking for the cause and what needs to be done about that.

I guess why I still see Boogiepop in a more positive light than the others so far is that they do give out some advice. They wanted Suemi to not take on this risky path alone. Lack of communication with others is one of the age old issues with teens/anime characters. You let something fester, it gets out of control. But clearly, something in Suemi's past is preventing her from having faith in someone else. I also get the feeling that it could also be a sense of ego preventing her from doing that. Suemi is seen as someone that has a grasp of what is going on while so many of them don't. While I do think Suemi's intentions overall are good, I do think that a core part of her identity is that people see her as someone they need to speak to in order to get a grasp of what's happening. She is very lucky that Jin didn't decide to harm her because a clash of wills/someone knowing too much is usually a target. I get the feeling the time will come where Suemi will push her luck too far. Hopefully, one of her friends or Boogiepop will be around to prevent that.

[Ghostfriendly]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

In the case of Nagi, you saw how she dismissed Kei and Shiro, claiming they were too "normal" to help, and underestimated Saotome (the Manticore's "boyfriend") for the same reason. But in the end Saotome slashed her throat with minimal effort and Kei and Shiro saved the day. There was a very clear lesson for Nagi to learn there. Don't you think? But did she learn? It's unclear right now.

She certainly isn't managing to communicate with her brother about the trouble he's involved in (Haven't seen latest ep. If this hasn't been dealt with in the last episode, possibly Spooky E simply wants to draw out Boogiepop with a fake Boogiepop's death. This plan assumes that Boogiepop cares about their public reputation, which Spooky E would probably be wrong in assuming).

Even if Nagi, Masaomi and Suema are flawed and in over their heads, one can't help respecting them more than other characters, including Boogiepop, for taking action. If Suema held back because Boogiepop said that they should, I think she'd be on the same thematic side of the fence as the kid Spooky E brainwashed. They're presented too sympathetically for judgement on them to be simple. Making non-conformists look like contemptible cranks is easy, Agatha Christie did it all the time, and it's not being done here.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly

If Suema held back because Boogiepop said that they should, I think she'd be on the same thematic side of the fence as the kid Spooky E brainwashed.

There's the importance of taking actions for the right reasons. When Jin suggested Suema was more interested in solving the mystery than actually helping Kotoe, that hit deeper than the anime let on. There's a reason Suema gets involved in this sort of weird shit and is not become she wants to help people. So, rather than holding back, what Boogiepop was trying tell Suema is to fix her own shit first, because she has issues.

Let's leave Nagi for the next arc.

[Last Sinner]

Hmm, hadn't realised they just re-released the light novels in English in omnibus form. After what I've seen, I'm ordering those in April.

Question - was Boogiepop the first LN to sell well?

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

Hmm, hadn't realised they just re-released the light novels in English in omnibus form. After what I've seen, I'm ordering those in April.

Question - was Boogiepop the first LN to sell well?

Depends what you consider light novel.
But Record of Lodoss War and Sorcerous Stabber Orphan all came before Boogiepop.

Though, up to what volume of Boogiepop they are re-releasing in English?
Hopefully they can at least make it up to vol.13

[Last Sinner]

Originally Posted by shmaster

Depends what you consider light novel.
But Record of Lodoss War and Sorcerous Stabber Orphan all came before Boogiepop.

Though, up to what volume of Boogiepop they are re-releasing in English?
Hopefully they can at least make it up to vol.13

I've only seen up to 6 listed. They've been put into two 3-in-1 omnibus volumes as of this month. Individual releases never went past 6 either.

[Cosmic Eagle]

So, if Jin had not run into Camille he's still going to have no idea how he's going to "change the world?" That's pretty sad actually. What's the point of seeing people's hearts but not understanding them at all? It's no different from any other normal person. Anyway, what's the Snow in April artwork supposed to represent?

[Spica]

Originally Posted by shmaster

Now we are getting into the tricky area. As this asking one of the most difficult question in the series: "Just what is Minahoshi Suiko exactly?"
If you want, let's bring the discussion to private because to thoroughly discuss her, it'll involve spoiler beyond Boogiepop series itself.

But if to give a simple answer, it'll be that "Minahoshi Suiko is Minahoshi Suiko, there is no other beings like her."

I will take the deal, spoil me about her.

[Kanon]

The arc apparently came to a close. It turns out Jin and his plans never mattered because the effect his power has on people is only temporary. The snow in april analogy was good.

Boogiepop never considered Jin a threat, which explains why he hasn't been doing anything. It seems the only reason he acted in this episode was to protect Suema. As for Imaginator, she just disappeared without even interacting once with Boogiepop. Obviously not gone for good though, given how people have been hyping her up. You have to wonder why she was seen as a threat to the world, when she chose a pawn/accomplice that was completely useless. It makes her seem pretty incompetent. I'm really not sold on her as an antagonist.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Kanon

You have to wonder why she was seen as a threat to the world, when she chose a pawn/accomplice that was completely useless. It makes her seem pretty incompetent. I'm really not sold on her as an antagonist.

I think she just doesn't have many options to choose from. People with special powers don't grow out from trees.

Besides, what Boogiepop said isn't completely true. Sure Jin's influence might be "temporary" but we don't know how long it actually lasts. Some of Jin's followers had been under his control for months, for instance. And if Jin managed to get Spooky under his control, he would have access to Towa's vast resources. That would have changed the whole game.

Ultimately, what saved Aya from Jin's power was her love for Masaki. That was the real protection. But Jin had no way of knowing that.

[shmaster]

Conformity to society is no different than brainwashing. People's mind has no freedom.
Yet Boogiepop just passively let things move on the way it is.

But Minahoshi is the polar opposite. Your world belongs to yourself only, screw rest of the world that tries to invade your own world. Why should you comply to a world that has nothing to do with how you feel and my heart believe in?
Humanity must "break through", hatch out from the shell that trapped them.
But ironically that's also why she could not brought upon the changes she desired.

Originally Posted by Kanon

The arc apparently came to a close. It turns out Jin and his plans never mattered because the effect his power has on people is only temporary. The snow in april analogy was good.

Boogiepop never considered Jin a threat, which explains why he hasn't been doing anything. It seems the only reason he acted in this episode was to protect Suema. As for Imaginator, she just disappeared without even interacting once with Boogiepop. Obviously not gone for good though, given how people have been hyping her up. You have to wonder why she was seen as a threat to the world, when she chose a pawn/accomplice that was completely useless. It makes her seem pretty incompetent. I'm really not sold on her as an antagonist.

That's the very weakness of Minahoshi.
She only believes in her self, she think she is the only possibility.
Albeit she is the invincible being, every time she fails to grasp the possibility that could lead her to the "break through" she desired.
But her her words to Masaki in the end is the most important. Remember what she said and that Masaki is the one who she had spoken to. And if vol.9 ever made it to English make sure you read it.

[Kazu-kun]

I have a soft spot for Suiko because I'm a believer that sometimes you really just got to "break through" even if it means going against society or the world itself. Just protecting the little corner of the world you live in isn't enough sometimes. Sometimes you really have to try change the world.

We would still live in caves if people through history just accepted what their current society deemed acceptable and didn't seek out big changes.

That doesn't mean Boogiepop is wrong. Actually there is no right or wrong here, just different philosophies and mindsets. Sometimes, instead of trying to change the world, you have to focus on what's important to you, your little corner. No everyone can be a revolutionary or a hero.

This time Boogiepop won because, well he's the "main character." But it would be foolish to believe his is the only valid answer.

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

This time Boogiepop won because, well he's the "main character." But it would be foolish to believe his is the only valid answer.

No, Boogiepop won because Minahoshi only believes in herself.
She wants to change people, but how is that possible if she does not believe in the people she is trying to change?
Also why it is significant that she now has some faith in people at the end of this episode.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by shmaster

Also why it is significant that she now has some faith in people at the end of this episode.

So she's got some character development out of this. That's interesting.

EDIT: subs are out.

[Stark700]

Episodes 10-13 (2 hour special) is out now too.

Adapts the "Boogiepop at Dawn" arc.

[serenade_beta]

I wonder how many of those supposed "Fate fans" watch this and if they do, realize what they saw is supposedly the inspiration for Kiritsugu/Shirou...?
Or these days, perhaps they would think that this copied off of Fate?

[Haak]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

I wonder how many of those supposed "Fate fans" watch this and if they do, realize what they saw is supposedly the inspiration for Kiritsugu/Shirou...?
Or these days, perhaps they would think that this copied off of Fate?

Which bit though? I can see Shirou and Sakura in Masaki and Camille but only if I look hard enough and I don't see a Kiritsugu expi.

I did think the first episode with Boogiepop's character was very reminiscent of Kara no Kyoukai with Shiki's character, before I realised the influence though.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Haak

Which bit though? I can see Shirou and Sakura in Masaki and Camille but only if I look hard enough and I don't see a Kiritsugu expi.

I did think the first episode with Boogiepop's character was very reminiscent of Kara no Kyoukai with Shiki's character, before I realised the influence though.

I think serenade_beta is referring to Scarcrow.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

I wonder how many of those supposed "Fate fans" watch this and if they do, realize what they saw is supposedly the inspiration for Kiritsugu/Shirou...?
Or these days, perhaps they would think that this copied off of Fate?

Has Nasu confirmed this somewhere? Would be cool if it is true.

[Cao Ni Ma]

I don't know if it's the voice director/coach or if this is all Aoi Yuki but Boogipops voice work has been fantastic throughout the stories. Her conversation with Scarecrow and the interview with the psychiatrist were really well done in this last arc.

[Kazu-kun]

Aoi Yuki is doing a god's work. The way Touka's voice transitions into Boogie's voice is masterful.