[MANGA] Bleach Chapter 433 Discussion

[Mr. DJ]

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

My skin is pretty tough trust me. If anything I am too hard for you. Again that is your opinion and just because you say "Bleach has handled it's story and cast pretty badly since the end of Soul Society" doesn't make it fact. Bleach has lot of fans that feels the opposite. It's my pleasure and I don't feel guilty about it. My thing is how many times can you say that? Okay we got you think the story is crap. However it's not contributing to the discussion. It's just senseless bashing. Also I notice people usually make the comparison whenever they want to justify their opinion that Bleach is terrible or their reasons for preferring another manga. Or when they can't comprehend the ability of character so they go for the closest thing that can understand. i.e Naruto's Kyuubi and Ichigo's hollow which was always compared and lot's of fanboys tried to use Naruto to explain Ichigo's power and they are nothing alike

So those comparison are useless (imo) and I find that kubo's just too deep and most of it goes over your head. Because if you took the time to think about it. It all makes sense...


Without stating why it's a "stupid" explanation. It's just senseless bashing and because not everyone shares your opinion. Because this type of statement causes arguments in any forum but this one it would be considered a useless and offtopic post and deleted


You know what I think? If you can't bothered to validate your criticism then you should keep it to yourself because it's just bashing

In any case I wanna speculate about chapter if it's going to be a bash fest...I can just go back into the beyond....

There are those of us who are sensible, then there are those that are mindless fanboys who believe Kubo can't do no wrong. I'm sensible about these things, which do you lay in?

I've gone about why I believe their explanation was stupid, sorry I don't feel the need to explain myself every time after I've established how I feel about it already. All their power is just manipulating matter around them to their advantage (Oh look, I just explained their power w/out the whole "everything has a soul" garbage)

You just said Kubo's story was deep....you just automatically invalidated everything you can think to post. Good luck and try not to get banned like the other rookies that have come and gone because they couldn't keep themselves in line.

[Lord of Pandemonium]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

No our jokes are senseless bashing, the thing is it seems like you mistake voicing criticisms of the manga as senseless bashing, you also take away any and all point to discussion if you completely disregard other peoples opinion. If people don't like something then they probably have a reason for it and a lot of the time the reason isn't as ridiculous as "My favourite character died so this manga sucks" - that is a stupid reason and should be ignored. Most of what people are saying are legitimate criticisms and just because you disagree doesn't mean it is wrong, (If I disagree then it is wrong ) saying you want discussion then disregard people's opinion destroys all point in discussion.

Also even if you take out all the opinions and make facts of the bad things then heres how it goes:

There is several things left unexplained causing plot holes
Characters change personalities randomly
Power levels fluctuate randomly which can leave readers confused
Things gain new explanations a lot
A lot of people do not like the way the story is going

Sure it has its good points but it needs to address those problems

I said "validate your criticism" meaning you list your reasons like you just did

Whether I agree or not is irrelevant. If you just criticize and don't bother to explain then it's just bashing. If this was BA or MH they would have deleted all these posts long ago

Now a plot hole means that the series has ended and you never got an explanation. Otherwise it's an unanswered question. It's designed to make you want to know. I can't fathom why anyone expects Kubo to tell you everything in a chapter. It's called "suspense". He explains when there is a "big" reveal otherwise it's all hints. He always explains be it now or later and it always tie together quite nicely. This is my belief and it will not change until I see fail

I have never ever seen characters change randomly. I have seen Kubo take a break from being serious and inject humor. A formula which works, and something he does because he doesn't like to be serious for too long all the time. He stated this long ago in a interview. The only one who ever did a 180 was Aizen because no one has ever hit him before. So you can't really say that is a change because it never happened. He's usually the one that has the last laugh after toying with his enemies..

Gin I agree, I thought was a heartless bastard. In fact there was a user that I used to know that always insisted he really had a heart and there was more than just a sadist. But I didn't see it. However if I think about it, this person was right all the damn time. There was always hints that Gin wasn't the evil bastard I thought he was, and he did indeed care about Matsu (Yes you were right all along)
In fact we used to go at on this one thing all time because I thought he was a sadist and Matsu's feelings were one sided.

About powers I have never seen anyone's powers fluctuate but Ichigo's. Now if you give me an example maybe I might have a clue--Please do not. I want to discuss the damn chapter

Now please stop quoting these posts because you are making me have a debate that I am not enjoying. I don't know why I thought this place could be fun, when I registered. Now I am going back into the beyond

Oh and my name is way too long to type. Call me LP it's looks cooler in print..

Ciao!

[Chiisai Kuma]

no new chpt. this day just keeps getting worse and worse for me
the shop i buy bleach volumes from is moving and when they move there not gonna sell any more manga. the next nearest shop that sells manga is over 5 hours drive from me now.

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by Chiisai Kuma

no new chpt. this day just keeps getting worse and worse for me
the shop i buy bleach volumes from is moving and when they move there not gonna sell any more manga. the next nearest shop that sells manga is over 5 hours drive from me now.

That... sucks.

[Alchemist007]

Amazon.com

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

Now a plot hole means that the series has ended and you never got an explanation. Otherwise it's an unanswered question. It's designed to make you want to know. I can't fathom why anyone expects Kubo to tell you everything in a chapter. It's called "suspense". He explains when there is a "big" reveal otherwise it's all hints. He always explains be it now or later and it always tie together quite nicely. This is my belief and it will not change until I see fail

No, a series does not have to end for there to be a plothole as you can note that the element is inconsistent.

The story suffers from a number of issues, mostly due to a serious lack of planning ahead
Kubo himself has admited that he does not plan out the story well beforehand; he once said something to the effect of not thinking Aizen was gonna be the mastermind behind the whole Soul Society plot until after he killed him. This can lead to signs of Retcon as he has to decide

For instance, what was the whole point behind the espada? After everything we saw, WonderWeiss to take care of Yamaji was the ONLY minion Aizen needed. the rest were just wasting our time. Aizen proved that he could effortlessly take down every other captain without even tapping into the true potential of his Sword (which is far more enormous than he ever showed)... And this was all without using his little MacGuffin to turn him into a god; Seriously all he had to do was wait like one more week and he could have destroyed all of SS single handedly. Hell We are even told the real point to kidnapping orihime was to lure his enemies into HM and trap them, but when it comes down to it he never actually NEEDED to do that seeing as he could have destroyed all of them just as easily as he did the rest of SS. In the end, the fights and everything have to do with the espada was pretty much Aizen wasting our time. Hell i think the true embodiment of this idea is Yammy being defeated off screen; the most powerful espada and we don't even get to see his fight; I can't help but think that's Kubo being honest to us and saying that he just wants to get this all over with and move on...

I have also found the use of Minor characters to be pretty terrible... amognst shounen, it's like third behind Naruto and DBZ into poorly used secondary characters. Honestly just because they aren't the main character doesn't mean they can't receive their share of the spotlight and be treated well. A lot of other manga and anime treat their secondary cast with much better tratment

there is more but i have ranted about these things many times before

About powers I have never seen anyone's powers fluctuate but Ichigo's. Now if you give me an example maybe I might have a clue--Please do not. I want to discuss the damn chapter

I have ranted about it many times, but there is a great amount of inconsistancy amonsgt the SS captains, the Espada, and The vizards...
The short version is that given what we knew the SS captains should never stood a chance and should have gotten swatted away like flies... much less being able to defeat someone like stark with just a shikai. the Vizads really should have been the only ones able to match the espada, but unlike ichigo, they did not seem to get nearly the level of power boost that Ichigo got. They were essnetially not much more power than the SS captains

[Mr. DJ]

Kenpachi and Hitsugaya being the most inconsistent.

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by DjTrizz

Kenpachi and Hitsugaya being the most inconsistent.

I can barely keep up with number 6 espada who Grimmi OHKO to oh look I can actually fight on par with the released number 3 espada who is much stronger than Grimmi.

Or Kenpachi's I just barely one against Ichigo to oh look two hands now I can beat released number 5 Espada who is stronger than the guy Ichigo had a bit of trouble with even with his mask. Then to Ichigo just got another hollow power up but he can barely nick Yammy but Kenpachi can slice him like hot butter.

Trying to understand Bleach power levels takes a mental capacity neither the author or any human has.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by DjTrizz

Kenpachi and Hitsugaya being the most inconsistent.

Everything in Bleach (After SS Arc) is inconsistent.


Bleach= Ichigo + Getsuga Tenshou + inconsistencies

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

Trying to understand Bleach power levels takes a mental capacity neither the author or any human has.

That's a minor problem... i mean that logic if A beats B, then if C>A, it should beat B in the end is boring and predictable.

To me, the biggest failure is that Kubo explain one thing months ago and now he gives a totally different explanation. So, you don't know what things are ok and what things are mere speculations. So, something so basic as the nature of those powers is totally a mistery, because we got several explanation to something that it should so simple as the devil fruit from one piece, the nine-tail fox from Naruto or Goku's Saiyan Nature.

So... if we can't answer that simple question, we can't answer anything else.

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by Fran~

That's a minor problem... i mean that logic if A beats B, then if C>A, it should beat B in the end is boring and predictable.

A problem that can be easily overcome if the author has any imagination, A beating B does not have to mean B is weaker, it could just be A was smart enough to find and exploit a weakness, so he was fighting smarter. So even if C beats A it doesn't mean that C should beat B because his ability might be suited to fighting against C.

One Piece I think gives the best example of this, Crocodile is in no way weak and his ability is quite hax however Luffy simply found a way to overcome his ability but Crocodile still remains a powerful force and other people may not be able to beat him this way.

That problem only becomes apparent when something like the strength of my ki or reiatsu or whatever becomes the decider for who wins.

[Kuroi Hadou]

Just thought I'd let you guys know that Bleach wasn't printed with this week's Jump issue. Guess Kubo got sick.

[Mr. DJ]

reportedly he has the flu

[Aqua Knight]

Originally Posted by DjTrizz

Kenpachi and Hitsugaya being the most inconsistent.

At least someone considers him as being inconsistent too. When anyone is bashing Kenpachi, people go on saying "What are you saying? Ken is teh man who pwnz everyone!!"

[Mr. DJ]

I say that as a Kenpachi fanboy but I'm not so blind as to not be able to admit the character's faults. If the fight between Kenpachi and Noitora happened like...a year or two later, the outcome would of been easier to swallow, instead of a few months later coming off a defeat from Ichigo who was still basically a novice to fighting.

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by DjTrizz

I say that as a Kenpachi fanboy but I'm not so blind as to not be able to admit the character's faults. If the fight between Kenpachi and Noitora happened like...a year or two later, the outcome would of been easier to swallow, instead of a few months later coming off a defeat from Ichigo who was still basically a novice to fighting.

That doesn't have anything on the Yammy fight.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Murasaki

At least someone considers him as being inconsistent too. When anyone is bashing Kenpachi, people go on saying "What are you saying? Ken is teh man who pwnz everyone!!"

That's because Ken is teh man!

I don't see how people don't get it by now that Kenpachi is supposed to be an over-the-top, larger-than-life badass. He's not the underdog who barely gets by, he's the guy that curbstomps your ass with a smile. He's like Wolverine, he beats opponents that should be out of his league because he's the "best there is at what he does". It was obvious Kubo wasn't writing his fights with power levels in mind when he lost against Ichigo and then went on to easily beat down 2 captains at once.

Ken and Ichigo create all this power level confusion because they're opposite sides of the characterization coin. Ichigo has to be the struggling underdog, and Zaraki has to be the big shot no matter who they fight. It does create inconsistency when Zaraki's trashing foes Ichigo struggles against, (what happened against Yammi really pushed it) but I think Kubo understands Ken's personality appeal and writes his fights with that in mind more than power levels.

[Mr. DJ]

I just pretend that fight didn't happen...Yammy was defeated off screen by the mysterious man Plot-Fu

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

A problem that can be easily overcome if the author has any imagination, A beating B does not have to mean B is weaker, it could just be A was smart enough to find and exploit a weakness, so he was fighting smarter. So even if C beats A it doesn't mean that C should beat B because his ability might be suited to fighting against C.

One Piece I think gives the best example of this, Crocodile is in no way weak and his ability is quite hax however Luffy simply found a way to overcome his ability but Crocodile still remains a powerful force and other people may not be able to beat him this way.

Aye, you gave an excellent example. Kubo lacks imagination and besides that, he is complicating everything without a significative outcome. Because you can complicate things (Oh! Great) but in the end is ok.

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

Just thought I'd let you guys know that Bleach wasn't printed with this week's Jump issue. Guess Kubo got sick.

I hope that he could get better and to think about all this mess.

[Lord of Pandemonium]

You guys are killing me. I asked you to please stop it. Okay you think it sucks and you want the right to say that. Please respect my right to enjoy the series. Christ find the corresponding thread and heap all your criticism there. Please stop trying to make me see how bad the series is--BECAUSE I DO NOT
If you gonna expend all that energy. How come we can't discuss something of substance.

If you must complain. Complain about the damn chapter. Complain about why Chad's arm looks diffrent
Complain about Ginjo's hole
Complain about the fullbringers
Complain about the reasons Chad is there
Complain that he seems to know more about Hollows than any other character.

Complain about what Ichigo's new abilities might be. Complain because he might use the badge

Hell just discuss the damn chapter!!! This way we reach a compromise

@ Who ever insists there a plot holes. The series hasn't ended. Fans with faulty memories, poor critical thinking and analytical skills and some just plain lack comprehension. Then these people complain about plot holes when there are none. For every plot hole you can find I can show you how it's not a plot hole. The series is ONGOING it hasn't ended. People always say Kubo forgot things he didn't forget just because he didn't give an answer, doesn't mean he's not going to give an answer or give you insight. He just didn't do it yet but he always does. I see bitching and whining about things that Kubo wasn't ready to explain but finally he did and you all forget and then pick something stupid to whine about. Now if you need ever last detail literally spelled out for you. This is surely not the manga for you. Read something simple and less complex
Whatever you do ..Please stop trying to force me to have this stupid debate which all about preference. You dislike Bleach but I REALLY LOVE IT!!!

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

That's because Ken is teh man!

I don't see how people don't get it by now that Kenpachi is supposed to be an over-the-top, larger-than-life badass. He's not the underdog who barely gets by, he's the guy that curbstomps your ass with a smile. He's like Wolverine, he beats opponents that should be out of his league because he's the "best there is at what he does". It was obvious Kubo wasn't writing his fights with power levels in mind when he lost against Ichigo and then went on to easily beat down 2 captains at once.

Ken and Ichigo create all this power level confusion because they're opposite sides of the characterization coin. Ichigo has to be the struggling underdog, and Zaraki has to be the big shot no matter who they fight. It does create inconsistency when Zaraki's trashing foes Ichigo struggles against, (what happened against Yammi really pushed it) but I think Kubo understands Ken's personality appeal and writes his fights with that in mind more than power levels.

Do you want to speculate and discuss the chapter with me? I have lurked here for a loooooooooooong time and I enjoy your posts. Although you don't post that much anymore. (I am starting to suspect I know why). So I figued I join and get into some of the discussions.

Because you know a friend asked me to join here and see if I could inject some life into this bitch because the discussion threads have gone to shit. Now it's full of one liners and haters and random shit

I am an otaku. I want to do otaku things. I wanna speculate. I have theories I wanna toss around. Oh god you are my last hope here..

@ Cloak and Dagger. Yo kid, I TRIED. You asked me to come here and I did, but it's not worth it. Hell I just realized most of the posters that actually had something to say that I found interesting don't post anymore. I just found out why. It's not worth it to me to do something I am not gonna enjoy. I tried to make it pop off, they wouldn't cooperate and instead drove me away.

If the sandman doesn't respond, this will truly be my last post.

Holla at me on MSN. If you wanna discuss things or say hi. I am going to MH were they are serious Otaku's and they understand that Bleach has fans and they demand that we respect a person's right to actually like the series ....

Later...

[Cub-Sama]

^Technically you starting an argument with most of us about comparisons, our opinions and criticisms is what brought us off topic so this is technically all your fault, most people we're just complaining about the chapter which it is their right to do. Also why can we not discuss the entire manga instead of just the chapter, the direction it is going etc...

Seems you're just angry coz we're all insulting your favourite manga so your inner fanboy/girl is just attacking us.

Btw Bleach, complex? Seriously? It is not hard to understand at all, its simple but riddled with inaccuracies, explaination swaps etc...