[MANGA] Bleach Chapter 400 Discussion

[Noe]

Aizen's getting ready to unravel another trick up his sleeve.

[kamyu]

it's kinda funny how people are still calling gin's bankai weak. ichigo said (err, thought) it himself when they were fighting up close. all gin has to do is angle his sword just enough towards ichigo and the fight is over, ichigo dies again.

the downside of such a match up is that we know ichigo is the main character so he won't die. at least not permanently. so basically, the only way gin will be allowed to get that one hit KO angle is if it is followed up by another round of berserk hollow ichigo with regeneration. which would probably be the most entertaining route anyway.

[Calca]

Originally Posted by sayde

This chapter has me feeling awkward. I'm happy that Aizen still seems to be maintaining his composure and hasn't gone ahead and pulled a Kira just yet. I'm also happy to see all the fanmade hype regarding Isshin's strength is finally coming into fruition. It's interesting because based on what we've seen so far, one could argue that he may be even more powerful than Yamamoto. If all the Zero Squad members are on par with this guy, then Aizen doesn't stand a chance at getting the throne as he is now.

On the other hand, I'm disappointed that Isshin managed to push Aizen to his limit before they could even bring out bankai's against one another. Things aren't looking good for Aizen. I sense a powerup coming and I'm worried it's going to turn him into another lame looking monster. Things are finally winding down. As events unfold, I'm left wondering now more than ever if Kubo is going to take this opportunity to finish Aizen off and introduce new antagonists (such as the two corpses Mayuri recovered), or if he's going to use the hogyouku as a plot device to re-establish Aizen's strength (and consequently, his role as Bleach's #1 main bad guy).

Btw, I like how Kubo just revealed to have put the two fastest bankai's against one another.

I doubt he's as strong as Yama-ji. Without WW Yama-ji would have beaten Aizen.

[Lendial]

ishin is creaming aizen, this means hes around yamato's level. thats insane but would explain ichigos amazing growth.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Streetor

I doubt he's as strong as Yama-ji. Without WW Yama-ji would have beaten Aizen.

I'm inclined to disagree. While Yama-jii probably would've beaten Aizen as he is now, the fact remains that Isshin is beating him as well. So it's hard to judge their strength based solely on who could defeat Aizen when both seem capable of doing it. To top it off, Isshin appears fairly unscathed, not fatigued in the least, and hasn't even gone shikai yet. No other character in this series to date can claim to have pushed Aizen this far to the point where he himself admits he's been pushed to his limits. On the other hand, Yamamoto must not have thought he was strong enough to guarantee a victory against Aizen in a head-to-head battle. He centered an entire plan on a kamikaze strategy. But it's hard to fault the old man for resorting to such tactics when he's already under KS's influence (unlike Isshin). So the battle wasn't fair to begin with.

While it isn't my intention to imply without a doubt that Isshin > Yamamoto, I do believe Isshin fans are finally getting the evidence they need to debate it as a strong possibility. I mean given the same conditions as Isshin (no shikai, bankai, and no hypnosis influence), who's confident that the old man would be able to fair this well against Aizen? I think it's hard to come to a definitive conclusion when Isshin and Yamamoto's limits have yet to be established.

[Rahan]

Originally Posted by kamyu

it's kinda funny how people are still calling gin's bankai weak. ichigo said (err, thought) it himself when they were fighting up close. all gin has to do is angle his sword just enough towards ichigo and the fight is over, ichigo dies again.

the downside of such a match up is that we know ichigo is the main character so he won't die. at least not permanently. so basically, the only way gin will be allowed to get that one hit KO angle is if it is followed up by another round of berserk hollow ichigo with regeneration. which would probably be the most entertaining route anyway.

The thing is Gin is fighting like a complete dumbass ...

He showed Ichigo both the giant extension (through the giant swing last chapter) and the super fast contraction before trying to stab him.
By that time, Ichigo had already caught on and could see the attack coming. (well not really, but he could see that when Gin is trying point his sword at him, he needs to get out the way)

Had he started by the stab, he would have won already.

[Alchemist007]

Not a bad chap. I wonder if Gin would stand a chance against mask mode or if he has his own even.

[Waking_Dreamer]

Originally Posted by Hypernova

Funny thing about all fighting manga that does not take speed of sound into account (notable exception Battle Angel Alita) is that by extension flash step move at sub-sonic speeds since we don't see any sonic booms.

Which means they don't stand a chance here. Considering that what ever they are doing clearly isn't teleportation.

I didint know ghost were obliged to make sonic booms when moving fast....

[Spectacular_Insanity]

...My BS Detector is going crazy.... the readings indicated major Aizen SPACE-TIME HACKS coming next chapter...

[(QQ)wertyasdf]

the extension/retraction speed I wanted came true

Now the way is open for some real genius i.e. Gin sniping people from very far maybe not 13 km but far enough to not be seen (Kubo needs to give Gin some epic reiatsu pinpointing ability for that to work)

[kamyu]

Originally Posted by Rahan

The thing is Gin is fighting like a complete dumbass ...

He showed Ichigo both the giant extension (through the giant swing last chapter) and the super fast contraction before trying to stab him.
By that time, Ichigo had already caught on and could see the attack coming. (well not really, but he could see that when Gin is trying point his sword at him, he needs to get out the way)

Had he started by the stab, he would have won already.

1/2 the characters in bleach have an ability that could be a one hit ambush KO. none of them do that though because that would make for a lot of short, boring fights.

it was made pretty clear that telling his opponents about the max length was strategy he uses to distract them from the speed. he didn't tell ichigo about the speed until after ichigo already figured it out. thats a heck of a lot better than almost every other bleach character. i think ukitake vs stark is the only other time where a shinigami's opponent had to figure out an ability before an explanation.

Originally Posted by Waking_Dreamer

I didint know ghost were obliged to make sonic booms when moving fast....

well these ghost have solid enough bodies to interact with the physical world so they should certainly be capable of creating sonic booms. not to mention that they are able to talk to each other which kinda requires the generation of sound waves.
but then thats physics and this is a manga so meh

[Jarmel]

Gin is a sniper through and through. His ability isn't designed for close range combat so it's stupid of him to fight like that. The battle certainly is interesting though. I'm also very impressed by Isshin's power level by I expect Aizen level hacks to start popping up.

[Wrath88]

Originally Posted by Rahan

The thing is Gin is fighting like a complete dumbass ...

He showed Ichigo both the giant extension (through the giant swing last chapter) and the super fast contraction before trying to stab him.
By that time, Ichigo had already caught on and could see the attack coming. (well not really, but he could see that when Gin is trying point his sword at him, he needs to get out the way)

Had he started by the stab, he would have won already.

Remember, a bankai is powerful. Before he showed it, Ichigo was on his guard. Sure, it might be 500 times the speed of sound, but everyone here can do hyperspeed. By doing the big swing, Gin's aim is to get Ichigo to lower his guard enough for the real attack.

[Kafriel]

What about recoil? If he shoots his thing say, 4 times at all sorts of varying ranges, shouldn't Gin's hand be wasted by now?

[Farscape]

Originally Posted by sayde

I'm inclined to disagree. While Yama-jii probably would've beaten Aizen as he is now, the fact remains that Isshin is beating him as well. So it's hard to judge their strength based solely on who could defeat Aizen when both seem capable of doing it. To top it off, Isshin appears fairly unscathed, not fatigued in the least, and hasn't even gone shikai yet. No other character in this series to date can claim to have pushed Aizen this far to the point where he himself admits he's been pushed to his limits. On the other hand, Yamamoto must not have thought he was strong enough to guarantee a victory against Aizen in a head-to-head battle. He centered an entire plan on a kamikaze strategy. But it's hard to fault the old man for resorting to such tactics when he's already under KS's influence (unlike Isshin). So the battle wasn't fair to begin with.

While it isn't my intention to imply without a doubt that Isshin > Yamamoto, I do believe Isshin fans are finally getting the evidence they need to debate it as a strong possibility. I mean given the same conditions as Isshin (no shikai, bankai, and no hypnosis influence), who's confident that the old man would be able to fair this well against Aizen? I think it's hard to come to a definitive conclusion when Isshin and Yamamoto's limits have yet to be established.

I am sensing it has more to do with the idea of Isshin possibly being unaffected/never being exposed to Aizen's shikai abilities.. Yamomoto could never go all out which could suggest he had to have been fighting one some limit, keeping the bigger picture in mind.

Still think its pretty odd tho, how Aizen is getting easily spanked.

Btw, Ichigo's Bankai can't be considerd the fastest bankai(yet) even though there are no others who equal in that speed beside Gin's(which is probably faster). My point is.. it's just not impressive enough(because he hasn't masterd it yet offcourse). It wasn't fast enough when he tried to impress Aizen or when he fought Grimmjow, Ulquiorra etc..

[Android_17]

I Thought that Gin's Bankai Sucked But When I saw the last chapter it kind of became a very dangerous Bankai. Think about it, he has a wide range and can lenghten to 13 km, it's 500 times faster than the speed of sound making it an instant death if he only aimed at you. It's perfect for long range battles because of it's length and even in a close range battle all he would need to do is just aim at his opponent before he gets impaled by it's destructive force and speed !

Come to think of it...Gin's bankai is really hard to explain without thinking about a sex joke in the back of your mind

[kamyu]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

What about recoil? If he shoots his thing say, 4 times at all sorts of varying ranges, shouldn't Gin's hand be wasted by now?

just anime physics at play again.
hell, the very act of performing a simple flashstep would probably crush your internal organs due to the sudden acceleration and deceleration involved.

[Waking_Dreamer]

Originally Posted by kamyu

well these ghost have solid enough bodies to interact with the physical world so they should certainly be capable of creating sonic booms. not to mention that they are able to talk to each other which kinda requires the generation of sound waves.
but then thats physics and this is a manga so meh

My point exactly.

For all we know their reiatsu could be dampening or preventing the sonic boom from taking place and therefore they could be moving speed of sound + already.

So number crunching is nice, but unless it actually has results in the manga as effective feats...its useless. I mean heck getting pummeled through several buildings should damage you severely - but they act like nothing more than light jabs in actual fight...

[Kafriel]

Sustaining damage is always taken to extremes, but abilities are usually explained in a more realistic sense...except Aizen, ofc :P

[Waking_Dreamer]

But speed feats and its ffectiveness is another very inconsistent ability...