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MCAL · 2014-02-11, 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitten320

While I fully understand Gon's rage, he is way too out of control and self centred. Especially for someone who is considered to be a happy/innocent child unlike Killua who is a killer and yet Killua is the one who is closer to a good side.

But it's exactly because he's innocent that it got to this point. Only an innocent child would be unable to understand why someone could mercilessly kill someone and then frankenstein them and at the same time care for someone so much that they'd risk their life to get to that goal. And when he does not understand, he does what any other innocent child would, completely lash out. Killua doesn't have to do that, because he is no longer innocent anymore (And neither are Kurapika or Leorio).

Saber Cherry · 2014-02-12, 02:12

That was the most intense episode of HxH so far. I'm impressed.

There's a big difference between murdering innocents for fun and profit and killing an evil monster when it happens to be doing a good deed against its will. There's nothing wrong with Gon in this case; as much as I like Komugi, rationally, the best decision is to kill Pitou ASAP, whatever the consequences. Unless, of course, you can get her to heal Kite, then kill her.

I certainly would not trust Pitou to hold any bargain, much less trust Pitou to obey me over the King once the King wins his battle - which may or may not happen, but from Gon's perspective, given the way the King was walking around with his 'assassins' seemingly without any antagonism, it does not seem unlikely. And if the King lost? Maybe the chairman would come back and kill Pitou immediately, or maybe the entire royal guard would lose all will to live, or go berserk - who knows?

Since Gon's personal goal is to heal Kite, he couldn't force Pitou to leave immediately and let Komugi die (in which case Pitout would not obey him), and couldn't wait 3-4 hours after which he may no longer have any leverage. So Gon may have gone about it the most efficient and logical way possible. Very unlike Gon, but not something to condemn him for.

Sugetsu · 2014-02-12, 02:22

This was a fantastic episode. In any case, I wonder how much power have that focused rage given him? Something tells me that his power has grown by quite a large margin. He is starting to remind me of kuraprica and his rage against the spiders and how that effected his powers.

Kyral · 2014-02-12, 03:26

Agree here, this episode had me on the edge of the seat. I was a litte unsure if Gon would step over the line and let an innocent die by simple killing the ant that became the whole focus of his revenge.
Very intense episode, with great visuals, music and voice acting.

Guardian Enzo · 2014-02-12, 03:52

This is truly the adaptation all great manga deserve, and almost none get.

Here's how I see it. Gon wasn't wrong to assume what he did when he saw Pitou and Komugi. He wasn't wrong to feel rage at the injustice of having to wait, and at Pitou trying to save Komugi after what he did to Kaitou. And he shouldn't have been expected to be satisfied with "probably" and "likely". Pitou hasn't earned Gon's trust or forbearance, and Gon has earned his rage. If the situations were reversed, Pitou wouldn't hesitate to take advantage.

But he has to, because Gon, for all his almost-insane amounts of rage and unique view on the world, isn't a savage. He isn't crazy, he isn't cruel, and he's not a beast. There's no way this is fair, in any sense of the word. So he has to wait, and he has to trust - to a point. That's the burden of being decent rather than being savage and cruel. And Killua has to be the one to bear the brunt of Gon's fury at the injustice of it. Gon's loyalty and sense of justice is too pure for anyone but a child to still cling to, and he's totally unmade by the sheer injustice of this moment. And, childishly, he lashes out at Killua - a classic shoot the messenger scenario - when Killua tries to talk sense to him. Gon didn't want to hear logic and restraint preached in that moment, and he shouldn't have had to - but he needed to, and Killua knew it.

What Gon said to Killua was undeniably terrible. It might have been the cruelest thing he could have said. But I understand it, knowing what Kaitou means to him, and how he blames himself for Kaitou"s plight. It was wrong, both in the factual and the moral sense. The way Killua was framed in that moment - his body quivering slightly, his lip trembling, silent for just a moment... It's utterly heart-rending. As Gon weeps tears of rage, Killua doesn't spare himself the luxury of tears - no, the little guy sucks it up, swallows his pain and tells Gon what he needs to hear even if he doesn't want to hear it. How can you not agonize for him in that moment? But Gon and Killua are strong enough to get through this, as brutal as it is in the moment.

It's just so brilliant, and every aspect of the adaptation - the art, the animation, the lack of BGM, the acting (Han Megumi is especially spectacular) - it pretty much puts everything else on the air to shame.

SHINOBI-03 · 2014-02-12, 03:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

But he has to, because Gon, for all his almost-insane amounts of rage and unique view on the world, isn't a savage. He isn't crazy, he isn't cruel, and he's not a beast.

Gon is not crazy? Are you sure you're not talking about Furuhashi's overly polite Gon?!

Guardian Enzo · 2014-02-12, 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHINOBI-03

Gon is not crazy? Are you sure you're not talking about Furuhashi's overly polite Gon?!

I don't see Gon as insane, no. Not based on what the anime has shown so far.

SHINOBI-03 · 2014-02-12, 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I don't see Gon as insane, no. Not based on what the anime has shown so far.

But we did see how crazy can he get in his battles like with Genthru who he himself said Gon was insane and others saying Gon is a monster after seeing his determination and potential that exceeds their expectations, that and other situations like stealing Ponzo's badge and not apologizing for it.

Gan_HOPE326 · 2014-02-12, 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saber Cherry

I certainly would not trust Pitou to hold any bargain, much less trust Pitou to obey me over the King once the King wins his battle - which may or may not happen, but from Gon's perspective, given the way the King was walking around with his 'assassins' seemingly without any antagonism, it does not seem unlikely. And if the King lost? Maybe the chairman would come back and kill Pitou immediately, or maybe the entire royal guard would lose all will to live, or go berserk - who knows?

That is a non-issue though. Even if Gon was thinking that far, if the King wins, they're all screwed anyway. The whole point of the mission was to separate the Royal Guard from the King - not even defeat them, just give Netero a fair chance to take down Meruem. If Meruem can survive this ordeal, then humanity's basically doomed no matter what.

Haak · 2014-02-12, 06:30

Gon crazy? If anything this scene gave me the opposite impression. There were many points in this episode where I felt Gon's rage had the feeling of a childish tantrum to it, albeit a superpowered tantrum. For all the scariness this is ironically a moment where Gon has truly come across as more human than any other moment I can think of in this series.

As for morals, it would have been wrong to kill Pitou when he knows Pitou is trying to save an innocent person's life, but he didn't. He may have massive amounts of rage but what this episode also showed is that he has an almost equal amount of restraint as well, because otherwise he wouldn't have waited. He also alienated Killua and hurt his feelings but that doesn't make him a bad person: It makes him human. He's certainly nowhere near as bad as the Phantom Troupe, who are depraved enough to massacre and entire innocent clan for money. Gon is nowhere near that level. Heck even if he killed Pitou right there and then and consequently killed Koumugi, he still would've been better than them.

I suppose I ought to mention this now, but whilst I did say I would no longer bother trying to make sense of the show's screwy morals, I'd have to make an exception here. Actually now that I think about it, the Chimera ant arc as a whole has been noticeably free of those screwy morals I decried in previous arcs. Probably because this arc has been more of a Blue and Orange Morality case, and an extremely effective one.

And as others have said, this was one truly terrific episode. When that ending theme played I was impressed they had actually spent almost an entire episode on this and still make it engaging. Reminded me of those episodes in Zetsuen no Tempest. The only very minor blemishes to this episode were the long recap at the start (which I just skipped) and the few pieces of pointless narration (and they were only a few). And have to agree that Han's acting was truly phenomenal.

Kanon · 2014-02-12, 08:55

This is the kind of episode so masterful it makes me wish I hadn't read the manga. I wonder what kind of state Megumi Han was in after the recording.

derps · 2014-02-12, 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goty

Likewise, Gon's current behavior was triggered by what happened/is happening to Kite. I don't think there was any actual build up to his condition before those events. He was always unbreakable, only two things that got to him were Hisoka's beatdown (unrelated) and now this.

Wrong.

Nobunaga mourning Uvo being the cold blooded bastard he is really got to him, it felt like injustice. And now it's happened to him directly and personally. He's been building that up ever since and now it's out.

How was the bomber fight typical shonen? When even after winning they established the fact that Gon was still weaker and only won by using the plan. The fight itself was more psychological than physical. Similar to Gon vs Hanzou, except now he's got some chance, and a plan. It was also accumulation of all the build up about gon being dangerous, how he can be actually crazy, and now it's happening again.

Most of the people gon met don't just say "he's dangerous" for no reason. They are used for characterizing him. As Zepile when he talked about his morality sense.

Meanwhile, all the other MCs simply defy the villain and protect their nakama, rinse and repeat.

Noble101 · 2014-02-12, 10:30

Can kite really be brought back? I thought he was dead and was only being manipulated by pitou?

Clarste · 2014-02-12, 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noble101

Can kite really be brought back? I thought he was dead and was only being manipulated by pitou?

The answer is that we don't know, but Gon is clinging to that hope. The audience is in a different position from him though, since we saw Kite decapitated, while he only saw him scarred.

MCAL · 2014-02-12, 11:27

Really. I can't stop watching the last ten minutes or so of this episode over and over again. And every time I stand in awe at what I am watching. Hunter x Hunter just doesn't know to be bad.

Dengar · 2014-02-12, 12:24

I think one of Gon's flaws is that it's hard for him to fathom that "even evil has loved ones". It just doesn't click with him. And it's not fair that he has to give his enemy something that his enemy most certainly would not have given him if the roles were reversed.

That said, this was an awesome episode. Pitou's devotion to her orders and decision to grovel and beg with all her strength really drives home that there's more to these things than just mindless killing machines.

She doesn't even have time to be flabbergasted by Gon's complete lack of fear.

Endscape · 2014-02-12, 12:33

I would say that Gon has an almost impossibly pure sense of fairness. He didn't have much of an issue personally with the Phantom Troupe, until Nobunaga talked about his friendship with Uvo, then he got pissed, because he thought that it was unfair for him to talk about friendship when they go around murdering people for money.

It's the same thing here with Pitou, only since it concerns him personally he got even more pissed off. The sentiment itself isn't wrong, it's just that Gon is really self-centered in how he applies it.

Eclipze · 2014-02-12, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitten320

Ironically that makes Gon no different from Phantom Spiders or any other villains in the series so far.

Phantom Troupe did not touch you until you got in their way or hurt their friends/family. Gon is exactly the same, as long as your actions go well with his believes/friends/family you are friends. The moment you get on his bad side he doesn't give a f@ck about anyone else.

What? Are you even watching the same show?

So you're saying that Kurapika's entire clan got slaughtered and their eyes collected because they "hurt" one of the spiders rather than for, oh I don't know, money? And this is just one instance of this. There were probably countless other clans or groups that got wiped out by the Phantom Troupe because...MONEY.

You're making them out as some kind of innocent, self-preserving group of abandoned people. They're not. They WILL kill for money. How is Gon even on the same level, I mean really now?

Guardian Enzo · 2014-02-13, 02:10

I normally re-watch anime episodes this great (not that there are more than a handful of them) almost immediately, but I only just now mustered the will to do so here. It's such a shattering experience I really had to build myself up for it.

It must be said, again - Han Megumi pretty much redefined the art of the seiyuu here, especially for a woman playing a male role. That was truly an astonishing performance. It's also striking how much of the ED sequence it turns out was taken from events that took place in this episode.

Dengar · 2014-02-13, 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclipze

What? Are you even watching the same show?

So you're saying that Kurapika's entire clan got slaughtered and their eyes collected because they "hurt" one of the spiders rather than for, oh I don't know, money? And this is just one instance of this. There were probably countless other clans or groups that got wiped out by the Phantom Troupe because...MONEY.

You're making them out as some kind of innocent, self-preserving group of abandoned people. They're not. They WILL kill for money. How is Gon even on the same level, I mean really now?

Not even to mention all those people they waltzed over JUST to get the auction items.

2014-02-12, 02:12	Link #4142
Saber Cherry Marionette Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 24	That was the most intense episode of HxH so far. I'm impressed. There's a big difference between murdering innocents for fun and profit and killing an evil monster when it happens to be doing a good deed against its will. There's nothing wrong with Gon in this case; as much as I like Komugi, rationally, the best decision is to kill Pitou ASAP, whatever the consequences. Unless, of course, you can get her to heal Kite, then kill her. I certainly would not trust Pitou to hold any bargain, much less trust Pitou to obey me over the King once the King wins his battle - which may or may not happen, but from Gon's perspective, given the way the King was walking around with his 'assassins' seemingly without any antagonism, it does not seem unlikely. And if the King lost? Maybe the chairman would come back and kill Pitou immediately, or maybe the entire royal guard would lose all will to live, or go berserk - who knows? Since Gon's personal goal is to heal Kite, he couldn't force Pitou to leave immediately and let Komugi die (in which case Pitout would not obey him), and couldn't wait 3-4 hours after which he may no longer have any leverage. So Gon may have gone about it the most efficient and logical way possible. Very unlike Gon, but not something to condemn him for. __________________ Nipaa~

2014-02-12, 02:22	Link #4143
Sugetsu Kurumada's lost child Join Date: Nov 2003	This was a fantastic episode. In any case, I wonder how much power have that focused rage given him? Something tells me that his power has grown by quite a large margin. He is starting to remind me of kuraprica and his rage against the spiders and how that effected his powers. __________________ "If you educate people, you cannot control them." ~Jacque Fresco

2014-02-12, 03:26	Link #4144
Kyral OC Belka Scriptor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Germany Age: 40	Agree here, this episode had me on the edge of the seat. I was a litte unsure if Gon would step over the line and let an innocent die by simple killing the ant that became the whole focus of his revenge. Very intense episode, with great visuals, music and voice acting. __________________ Last edited by Kyral; 2014-02-12 at 06:10.

2014-02-12, 06:30	Link #4150
Haak Me, An Intellectual Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: UK Age: 33	Gon crazy? If anything this scene gave me the opposite impression. There were many points in this episode where I felt Gon's rage had the feeling of a childish tantrum to it, albeit a superpowered tantrum. For all the scariness this is ironically a moment where Gon has truly come across as more human than any other moment I can think of in this series. As for morals, it would have been wrong to kill Pitou when he knows Pitou is trying to save an innocent person's life, but he didn't. He may have massive amounts of rage but what this episode also showed is that he has an almost equal amount of restraint as well, because otherwise he wouldn't have waited. He also alienated Killua and hurt his feelings but that doesn't make him a bad person: It makes him human. He's certainly nowhere near as bad as the Phantom Troupe, who are depraved enough to massacre and entire innocent clan for money. Gon is nowhere near that level. Heck even if he killed Pitou right there and then and consequently killed Koumugi, he still would've been better than them. I suppose I ought to mention this now, but whilst I did say I would no longer bother trying to make sense of the show's screwy morals, I'd have to make an exception here. Actually now that I think about it, the Chimera ant arc as a whole has been noticeably free of those screwy morals I decried in previous arcs. Probably because this arc has been more of a Blue and Orange Morality case, and an extremely effective one. And as others have said, this was one truly terrific episode. When that ending theme played I was impressed they had actually spent almost an entire episode on this and still make it engaging. Reminded me of those episodes in Zetsuen no Tempest. The only very minor blemishes to this episode were the long recap at the start (which I just skipped) and the few pieces of pointless narration (and they were only a few). And have to agree that Han's acting was truly phenomenal. __________________ MAL \| AnimeSuki Choice Awards 2020 Winners

2014-02-12, 08:55	Link #4151
Kanon Kana Hanazawa ♥ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: France Age: 37	This is the kind of episode so masterful it makes me wish I hadn't read the manga. I wonder what kind of state Megumi Han was in after the recording. __________________

2014-02-12, 10:30	Link #4153
Noble101 Member Join Date: Jan 2014	Can kite really be brought back? I thought he was dead and was only being manipulated by pitou?

2014-02-12, 11:27	Link #4155
MCAL Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012	Really. I can't stop watching the last ten minutes or so of this episode over and over again. And every time I stand in awe at what I am watching. Hunter x Hunter just doesn't know to be bad.

2014-02-12, 12:24	Link #4156
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	I think one of Gon's flaws is that it's hard for him to fathom that "even evil has loved ones". It just doesn't click with him. And it's not fair that he has to give his enemy something that his enemy most certainly would not have given him if the roles were reversed. That said, this was an awesome episode. Pitou's devotion to her orders and decision to grovel and beg with all her strength really drives home that there's more to these things than just mindless killing machines. She doesn't even have time to be flabbergasted by Gon's complete lack of fear.

2014-02-12, 12:33	Link #4157
Endscape The Mage of Four Hearts Author Join Date: Mar 2010 Age: 33	I would say that Gon has an almost impossibly pure sense of fairness. He didn't have much of an issue personally with the Phantom Troupe, until Nobunaga talked about his friendship with Uvo, then he got pissed, because he thought that it was unfair for him to talk about friendship when they go around murdering people for money. It's the same thing here with Pitou, only since it concerns him personally he got even more pissed off. The sentiment itself isn't wrong, it's just that Gon is really self-centered in how he applies it. __________________ Illusion, illusion, this is illusion. It cannot harm me.