Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[seiftis]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

No, please not that!!! If that happens, I'll boycott this.

I worst thing I could think of is Shun's turning into a "cat." And its Saki's unconditional love will lift the curse... Sweet!!!!

erm.. you think this is Frog Prince or Beauty and the Beast?

[CJ_Walker]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

What cliffhanger... either Shun saves Saki, and becomes a karma-demon

they said he wasnt a full demon thing yet. . .but I'm confused, have I just not been paying attention or what cause I dont understand why shun would be come a karma demon in the first place, he didn't seem evil, was it just cause he was too smart or something? or cause of the info dumping slug in ep3-4? How would being too smart or too genius = evil?? I really dont get that at all.

By the way, I found Saki EXTREEEEMLY annoying this episode, especially at the dinner scene...she was being a bitch towards mamoru last ep as well, wtf is up with her?

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by seiftis

erm.. you think this is Frog Prince or Beauty and the Beast?

Sci-fi. If they could change him, then it could be reverse.... Nothings impossible in anime...

Love ain't fantasy... Science is LOve...heh:

[CJ_Walker]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Sci-fi. If they could change him, then it could be reverse.... Nothings impossible in anime...

Love ain't fantasy... Science is LOve...heh:

yeah. . .sorry dude, that makes even less sense then shun turning evil or whatever.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Still I liked this episode more than most so far. The direction in the sequence where Saki and Satoru look for Shun leapt pretty quickly from one weird scene to another. I guess we're expected to fill in the blanks. That seems the modus operandi of Shin Sekai Yori pretty much from the start.

Well, you're supposed to be picking up the hints... and realize the same thing Satoru and Saki realized: that something was very much not right.

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I presume given the level of stress both girls were under a bonobo event took place soon after Maria's arrival.

Actually, it didn't. Come on, these people are not sex-crazed maniacs, especially when they both realize there's something more important going on. (Can we get a "horny users" tag in the episode threads as well? )

Originally Posted by CJ_Walker

but I'm confused, have I just not been paying attention or what cause I dont understand why shun would be come a karma demon in the first place

It will be explained when the time comes.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by CJ_Walker

they said he wasnt a full demon thing yet. . .but I'm confused, have I just not been paying attention or what cause I dont understand why shun would be come a karma demon in the first place, he didn't seem evil, was it just cause he was too smart or something? or cause of the info dumping slug in ep3-4? How would being too smart or too genius = evil?? I really dont get that at all.

I have problems with this too. That tale about the karma demon that Shun read back then tells the story of a kid's descent to darkness: he was arrogant and self-centered, and grew power hungry, and ultimately lost control of his power and that was his undoing. But this isn't the case with Shun. He seemed to be relatively normal all this time (if pretty smart and talented), and now suddenly he's going karma demon. It seems forced as hell.

I got the feeling that tale was just more lies.

Spoiler for speculah:

Karma demons are probably the result of some kind of genetic disorder or something like that. That would make more sense than Shun going all wacko on his own imo.

[Triple_R]

Fantastic, intense, thrilling episode. A truly gripping watch that had my eyeballs locked on the screen and me glued to my chair all the way through. This is the best episode of Shin Sekai Yori yet, imo, and it was an awesome payoff for all the buildup that came before.

Honestly, I felt that the scenes flowed very nicely throughout the entire episode. From Satoru gathering the old gang together to try to save Shun to the latest in a long line of cliffhangers, it felt like this episode didn't miss a beat.

The dialogue was great; nothing felt overly exposition-esque, but the implications were clear. This was most powerfully poignant in the conversation between Saki and her parents; Saki's mother was nearing panic over the thought of Saki getting marked for elimination, while Saki's father knew that the jig was up and that he had to be a bit more forthcoming towards Saki in order to try to calmly talk her down. You can tell that Saki's parents do love her a lot, but also that they've long-accepted the oppressive conditions that they live in and view them as insurmountable.

Saki herself is incredibly courageous, almost to the point that I'm tempted to consider her reckless. Again, the implications are clear, and so she must know the great risk she's taking in continuing to try to save Shun. I'd like for her to succeed, but the odds are heavily stacked against her.


And I agree with kuromitsu about the visuals in this episode - Lots of great artwork here.

I also agree with kuromitsu on the whole "they're not sex-crazed maniacs" thing. Yes, when Maria went into Saki's bedroom, it definitely felt like a high school girl desperately rushing to her lover for help and comfort during a crisis situation. But that's all. The most I can see is Saki giving Maria an off-screen hug and kiss to calm the poor girl, before proceeding to deal with the obviously more pressing issue here.

As for Maria feeling jealous over Saki's dedication to Shun, I honestly don't think that crossed Maria's mind the entire episode. This is a tight-knit bunch of friends, and while there might be some slight jealousy simmering below the surface (Mamoru jealous of Saki, Saki jealous of Satoru, Maria jealous of Shun), these kids have the sense to put that aside when one or more of their friends are in danger.


But yeah, again, just a thrillingly fantastic episode. I liked everything about it, including how things that were just hinted at before became crystal clear here (such as these lion-like things being used to kill off problematic children).

I have real doubts that Shun survives this, but Saki obviously survives into adulthood (given 'adult Saki narration'). What I'm most curious about is how Saki survives this. I really have to think that she's totally crossed the line here in the eyes of the people who run this place. I don't see how there's any "going back" for Saki after this episode. Are the surviving friends of the original band of five going to have to run away from the village and live as nomads? Are they going to somehow lead a revolt against the village's rulers? Both ideas are hard to imagine for me, but I also have a hard time coming up with a different possibility.

10/10 for Episode 9 of Shin Sekai Yori. Awesome anime show.

[Solace]

Shun's a prodigy, I'm not sure why it would seem so strange that he would be tempted by the dark side, especially during the emotionally volatile years of puberty combined with learning about the dark side of the village and humanity in general, plus the things experienced during the trip.

He always struck me as someone who was in a group, but never part of one. I think the only reason any chemistry ever existed between him and Saki is due to both of them having a perceptive and inquisitive personality. He was just better at hiding things, apparently.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Solace

Shun's a prodigy, I'm not sure why it would seem so strange that he would be tempted by the dark side

The problem is that we didn't see such a thing. We never saw a Shun that was more than just a smart and talented guy, if a bit secretive. Think Sayaka from Madoka as a counterexample. In that case we got a progressive and slow decent to darkness that properly explained her mindset at the time, but we didn't get anything like that in Shun's case. He did one weird trick (the egg thing) and suddenly he's the evil incarnate? I don't buy it. If it's truly something he brought upon himself, I need to see how it happened, the proper progression of things.

[Jerseykid]

If Shun dies I will not be a happy camper! I like the anime significantly more with him in it

[Triple_R]

There's every indication that simply breaking minor rules (like, you know, not cheating at sports ) gets you the death penalty in this world. So I don't think it would take all that much to get labeled a "karma demon" by the people who oversee this village.

So just because the village overseers are saying that Shun has gone "to the dark side" doesn't mean he actually has.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Jerseykid

If Shun dies I will not be a happy camper! I like the anime significantly more with him in it

Yeah.

Saki + Shun = Good Story, Good Romance

Saki - Shun = Good Tragedy?

Nah.. I'll go with the first. It's the ShunxSaki that draw me to the series....

Originally Posted by Triple_R

So just because the village overseers are saying that Shun has gone "to the dark side" doesn't mean he actually has.

They're just paranoid that their experiment ain't meeting their predicted goal.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Actually, it didn't. Come on, these people are not sex-crazed maniacs, especially when they both realize there's something more important going on. (Can we get a "horny users" tag in the episode threads as well? )

Unless I don't understand the bonobo business, the whole point is to encourage these humans to relieve stress through sex. I don't think I've seen Maria in a more stressful situation than this one, and Saki just realized she had a sibling. At 63, I'm not sure the horny user tag really applies to me. My comment seemed appropriate within the context of the story.

If this situation wasn't a good example of when the bonobo response would be approriate, what is? Otherwise we're left just with sexuality as fanservice, which was the feeling I had watching the previous episode.

Originally Posted by CJ_Walker

By the way, I found Saki EXTREEEEMLY annoying this episode, especially at the dinner scene...she was being a bitch towards mamoru last ep as well, wtf is up with her?

Saki is fourteen and has realized that everyone in her life has been lying about things forever. Plus the boy she likes has been removed without explanation, and she is told she is not supposed to care. I'm not surprised she is angry and resentful. I felt a lot of sympathy for Saki in this episode myself.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Saki is fourteen and has realized that everyone in her life has been lying about things forever. Plus the boy she likes has been removed without explanation, and she is told she is not supposed to care. I'm not surprised she is angry and resentful. I felt a lot of sympathy for Saki in this episode myself.

Saki is at her best this time. She seemed to have mature a bit compared to the last episode. She wants what she wants and that's to have Shun back.

[Triple_R]

I think the whole Bonobos thing misses the mark a bit, and I think it's mislead many of us.

It gave me the wrong impression too - It initially made me think "All the adolescents in this school will be very sexually promiscuous". But that's not the impression that I'm getting from either this episode or the last.

So that's not it. These kids aren't significantly different from any other kids, except that they're all in homosexual relationships (well, except Mamoru). The implication is increasingly clear, and I think we speculated to it last episode - This society has chosen to use homosexual relationships as a means of preventing their adolescents from pro-creating. It's not so much that sex is more casual and "at the drop of a hat" in this world, it's that the procreative aspect of it has been entirely removed (at least for teenagers).

Saki and Maria are just like your typical high school romantic pair, it's just that they're both girls.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Saki and Maria are just like your typical high school romantic pair, it's just that they're both girls.

But I don't think Saki has the same feelings as Maria has for her. It is so obvious that Saki has both eyes for Shun during the previous episode.

Yes, we could say they are a pair but not that romantic enough since one party ain't providing the same share of the feeling as the other provides.

[ookamigirl]

Shun missing...
Everyone was worried and determined to find him.
The trip outside to the forbidden zone was interesting.
Lots of weird things and inconsistencies.
Looks like Shun ended up just like all the other kids who went missing before.
Saki had a sister who ended up just like all the others.
Very interesting episode.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Unless I don't understand the bonobo business, the whole point is to encourage these humans to relieve stress through sex. I don't think I've seen Maria in a more stressful situation than this one, and Saki just realized she had a sibling. At 63, I'm not sure the horny user tag really applies to me. My comment seemed appropriate within the context of the story.

If this situation wasn't a good example of when the bonobo response would be approriate, what is? Otherwise we're left just with sexuality as fanservice, which was the feeling I had watching the previous episode.

As Saki herself said in episode whatever, when she and Satoru were captured by the bakenezumi: they're not apes. They're human beings with minds and personalities on their own, and they can decide for themselves when they want to do what and with whom. And in a situation such as this one having sex is pretty much the last thing on a person's mind (and the last thing you want is to be distracted by having sex).

The whole bonobo thing is simply encouraging physical intimacy as a way of strengthening bonds between people for the sake of peaceful coexistence and repression of violent urges. Encouraging skinship, touching, holding hands, hugging, even kissing, the development of natural curiosity about sexuality - things that our society limits or even represses after a while. The kids are just like any other kids, except they have been raised without restrictions when it comes to intimate physical contact, and as a natural consequence, they're more open about sexuality as well.

Aside of that, like Triple_R said, the kids aren't particularly "different." They have relationships, break them up, experiment, etc. like any other kids of the same age, except they're less restricted about the physical side of things, and being in homosexual physical relationships due to the strict rules about sexual activities between boys and girls (something that would be impossible to uphold if the people were being conditioned to have sex with anyone at the drop of a hat...).

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

But I don't think Saki has the same feelings as Maria has for her. It is so obvious that Saki has both eyes for Shun during the previous episode.

Yes, we could say they are a pair but not that romantic enough since one party ain't providing the same share of the feeling as the other provides.

I think if Maria and Saki had been brought up in our society they would likely be best friends who love each other deeply and care about each other a lot. As it is, given the societal context, they're also lovers in a physical sense. What Saki feels for Maria is not the exact same thing she feels for Shun.

[Kanon]

That was probably the best episode of the series so far. The series finally got back the chilling and gripping atmosphere that made the first few episodes so excellent. The artwork and animation were also a lot better than last week, with some stunningly beautiful shots here and there. The next episode will be directed by Yamauchi once again, I believe the content will actually fit his style this time around. He's very good at building an oppressing and/or mesmerizing atmosphere.

I'm very intrigued by what happened to Pinewood. It looked like the whole village had been wiped out the map. I'm glad to see people didn't jump to conclusion and assume Shun did it. I still think he's a good person who happens to be more sensible than most and therefore can't accept the way this society works. There's no way we can blame him for that, given what we know of the higher-ups' activities.

I'm afraid Shun won't survive this arc. It's doubtul Saki will be able to rescue him all by herself. If she manages to do so, they'll need to escape from the village. But to go where? To the Queerats? Most of them obey the village so that's not a valid option. The world is big however, so there might still be places with normal humans around.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I have problems with this too. That tale about the karma demon that Shun read back then tells the story of a kid's descent to darkness: he was arrogant and self-centered, and grew power hungry, and ultimately lost control of his power and that was his undoing. But this isn't the case with Shun. He seemed to be relatively normal all this time (if pretty smart and talented), and now suddenly he's going karma demon. It seems forced as hell.

I got the feeling that tale was just more lies.

Spoiler for speculah:

Karma demons are probably the result of some kind of genetic disorder or something like that. That would make more sense than Shun going all wacko on his own imo.

I think Karma demons are simply what they call anarchists. That tale was entirely made up in order to ensure kids would be too scared to stray off the path laid out in front of them by the adults. They want them to obey each and every rule. When an individual happens to show signs of rebellion, no matter how small, he gets labeled a karma demon and later killed. Saki and the others are most likely also on the potential karma demon list.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I'm very intrigued by what happened to Pinewood. It looked like the whole village had been wiped out the map.

That crater looked remarkably similar to the one we saw in the episode where the monk was killed. Some kind of psychokinetic explosive power perhaps?