The 4th Jutsu [Episode 72 and 73]

[ShinjiMuaddib]

Hey if Oro can take over otherbodies with his jutsu then i can defitnatly beleive that Naruto is a reincarnation of Yondaime.

[eean]

Or maybe you're all wrong and its a plot inconsistency. I doubt they had the story plotted out (at least in detail) this far from the beginning.

[Sethi]

Originally Posted by eean

Or maybe you're all wrong and its a plot inconsistency. I doubt they had the story plotted out (at least in detail) this far from the beginning.

that's a possibility, however i don't think so, since this questions are probably the ones most people wants an answer, how did the 4th sealed Kyubi with what purpose did he sealed it in Naruto and what's the true identity of Naruto, so if Kishimoto gives some lameass explanation full of plot holes most people won't like it at all, he must have this part of the story planned.

[ShinjiMuaddib]

Tsuname definitly makes the point that both Naruto and Yondaime look alike and Naruto and Jiraiya have the same kind of personality minus the perverted stuff from Jiraiya. I am assuming that Yondaime was probably the same as Jiraiya but that deduction doesn't lead to either Theory being right. I would just find it more a plot twist that Naruto is Yondaime Reincarnation like Darth Revan in Knights of the Old Replublic. Just bein his son doesnt sound as cool to me but heh i aint the writer heheh.

[Sethi]

Originally Posted by ShinjiMuaddib

Tsuname definitly makes the point that both Naruto and Yondaime look alike and Naruto and Jiraiya have the same kind of personality minus the perverted stuff from Jiraiya. I am assuming that Yondaime was probably the same as Jiraiya but that deduction doesn't lead to either Theory being right. I would just find it more a plot twist that Naruto is Yondaime Reincarnation like Darth Revan in Knights of the Old Replublic. Just bein his son doesnt sound as cool to me but heh i aint the writer heheh.

Darth Revan wasn't a reincarnation he simply lost is memories and the council made false memories in his mind so he would help them.
if Naruto turned out to be just a baby who they used to seal the Kyubi and he wasn't in no way related to the 4th that would be more of a plot twist since everyone seems to think he is related in some way to the 4th

[ShinjiMuaddib]

So maybe its Yondaime in a child form and he forgot his memories liek Revan lol.

[Yondaime]

haha but it cant be Yondaime in child form cuz Naruto was already born XD Anyways even tho its cliche I still like the whole father son idea but twists can always be nice too so I can't wait to see what they have in store !

- Yondaime

[GreyArea]

Originally Posted by eean

Or maybe you're all wrong and its a plot inconsistency. I doubt they had the story plotted out (at least in detail) this far from the beginning.

Im all for that. I reckon Kishimoto hadnt planned this far ahead, but Im sure he could explain his way out of this one, like all the other silly inconsistencies

[Hairydolphin]

I think Naruto looks stunningly like Jiraiya. For example, look at this pic http://www.narutoex.com/donotlink/sc...p53/053108.jpg

if you imagine Naruto having longer hair....he would look like Jiraiya almost completly.

[<xellos>]

ok i think this needs to be straightened out, when the person who performs the seal dies, the thing inside is not released, it is lost, because in the manga

Spoiler:

Sandaime dies, but Oro still cant use his arms...hmm...shouldnt they be usable now that hes dead?

i hope that spoiler tag worked

[smoolish]

or the 4th could have just grabbed some random kid and sealed kyubi into him lol that would be funny!!

[ShinjiMuaddib]

Yeah and Yondaime is actually Sondaime son in law and Naruto is the grandson of the 3rd and Jiraiya is his Uncle.

[Supaiku_of_Sand]

Originally Posted by Vicious

This is a very simple question, actually

When using the Shiki Fuujin, other than sealing the soul of the enemy in your own body, you can manage to seal it in another body. The 4th Hokage decided to seal Kyuubi's soul within Naruto, instead of sealing Kyuubi within himself. Even though, since it was the 4th who performed the jutsu, it was him who paid the price with his own life.

Why the 4th decided to seal Kyuubi within Naruto instead of sealing it within himself? Nobody knows- maybe it's a proof that Kyuubi really escapes the body of his "prison" after this "prison" (now Naruto) dies. So Kyuubi would instantanelly escape after the 4th died, that's may be why he decided to seal it within Naruto. But of course, this paragraph is just speculation.

Actually i think of it in a different way, in the Eastern beliefs when an evil dies an greater evil must take its place, to preserve the balance between good and Evil. THe Ichibi(gaara) and Kyuubi(Naruto) are prime example of a perception of evil. and if the fourth killed himself with the Kyuubi there would be a stronger evil that would come but if the evil died naturally such as within a medium like Naruto. that evil will just return but at least you would know the evil instead of it dying and a stronger one arises and its powers are too unfathomable to comprehend what to you want them to do? Yondaime knew that thats why he was Hokage, he was a genius. he had to have known the reprecussions from killing a Bijuu. so he found a way around it. but this is just speculation.

[Supaiku_of_Sand]

Originally Posted by CloudStrife

ok i think this needs to be straightened out, when the person who performs the seal dies, the thing inside is not released, it is lost, because in the manga

Spoiler:

Sandaime dies, but Oro still cant use his arms...hmm...shouldnt they be usable now that hes dead?

i hope that spoiler tag worked

however this seal is different because the 3rd didnt really know what he was doing. and Orochimaru got use of his arms back because he found a new host body.

[IVIavrick]

Originally Posted by Supaiku_of_Sand

however this seal is different because the 3rd didnt really know what he was doing. and Orochimaru got use of his arms back because he found a new host body.

The Sandaime knew as much as Yondaime could have known, because it is not as if the Shiki Fuujin is a jutsu someone has the ability to practice.

-------------------------------------------------

I for one tend to believe that Naruto is indeed just a reincarnation of Yondaime.

----Side Note----(maybe I should post this elsewhere...)

If, after performing the Shiki Fuujin, the souls of the two are trapped forever in the belly of the Death God, why would Sandaime have had to try to stop the 4th from being ressurection via Orochimaru's kinjutsu. I mean, technically, wouldn't the 4th's soul be inaccessable to any type of summon?

[Supaiku_of_Sand]

i honestly dont know

[Ero-Senn1n]

I think that the most likely explanation is this:
the summoning of the Death God is a kind of summoning, just like other summons, however this is special because of the special summoned entity. Just like Oro's Edo Tensei, where he does not summon an animal but a dead human.

As we know a Death God in manga/anime is the one who takes the souls to another world, and he cannot be controlled by humans in normal condition (Abnormal is what we see in Death Note).
So the condition to control it is that the summoner must give his life in exchange for controlling the Death God, so that the summoner can use death god just like other summons can be used, also the condition must be fulfilled even if the summoner does not suceed using the death god to make the jutsu. We can call this condition also the contract made with the summoned entity, we saw already a how did Naruto make contract to summon frogs.

With this logic we see that the possible outcomes of using the Death God can be many, so the users can have various jutsu or even combination of jutsu in which he uses the Death God.

In the case of Sandaime he pulled out almost 3 souls, he combined a simple kage bunshin with a simple soul dragging. I say simple becuase he used taijutsu to actually catch the opponent ( 1st & 2nd hokage and Oro ), while it's clear that Yondaime could not simply catch Kyuubi like that but had to use a much more tricky way. Also Yondaime used a newborn baby while he was fighting the biggest known monster, so it's clear that he had to use various high level jutsu to finally make good use of the summoned Death God.

It were Itachi's words that made me think about this, he said to Kisame that they wouldn't be able to kill Jiraiya and survive that, not even if they increased their numbers. I was thinking back then "what the hell, is he saying they could all die even if whole akatsuki attacked Jiraiya?!". So i could come up only with a theory about Jiraiya knowning the Death God and using a kagebunshin like Sandaime did. With the Death God Sandaime defeated 3 hokage level people, and if he was not so old (and Jiraiya is not so old yet) he would have killed them all. I cannot think of any other method how would Jiraiya be able to defeat even the whole akatsuki coming at him together. And this theory implies that the Death God can be used in many different ways, the only certain thing is that when the Death God summon disappears it will drag the summoner's soul with it.

This also means that Yondaime was able to seal the Kyuubi anywhere he wanted to (even to an object, like Shukaku was), so that Naruto does not have to Yondaime's clone or reincarnation.

[Suna no tate]

Look I'm going to say it. All of the descriptions of what goes on with the death god summoning jutsu are wrong. Here's why. Its impossible to give an accurate descriptionn. If you do the jutsu, you're dead. You can't come back and tell people what happened to each soul; that this soul went there and this soul went here. You also can't know before you actually do the jutsu.

[Neji_Hyuuga]

THere is one thing for sure about this ninjutsu, the third mentioned that only one who made contract with the shikigami could see it...does this also mean that the only soul that could be used as a tribute is the soul of the one who summons it forth...this is a very complicated issue actually...there are alternative and different perspectives about the effect of the jutsu on Yondaime sama:

-Yondaime summoned the god of death, used his soul as a tribute, seals Kyuubi inside him...but because kyuubi is a Youma, immortal short to say, he neglects the original effect of the jutsu...Kyuubi is different to other life forms so he must have effected the jutsu in some way...cause...hey we don't see Kyuubi fighting Yon sama for an eternity do we???

-Yon sama sealed Kyuubi inside another vessel ( Naruto ) cause he predicted that if he died...kyuubi would most likely escape from damnation since he's already a youma...so Kyuubi must be imprisoned inside a living vessel...a body to anchor his soul...

The fact is, no one knew what happened in Yondaime's final battlle with Kyuubi...and since Kishi haven't made any gaiden about the battle, i'm pretty sure that what happened in the day of the sealing holds a key role throughout the entire plot and story line....

[Supaiku_of_Sand]

you defiantley have a point man i seriosuly think your on to something