AnimeSuki Forums

Key Board · 2012-06-30, 15:13

isn't losing tragically what the refusal ending is about?

or perhaps do you want a slide montage similar to the ones seen in the other 3 endings

that would be nice, I suppose

Keroko · 2012-06-30, 15:23

I know what it's about, but only because it's told to me. I didn't get to see it.

I wanted at least one ending where my war assets mattered. At least one ending where I could see the united fleets crash in space, with the ships I salvaged and the races I gathered rather than just one generic cutscene. Even if they lost, I would have loved to see the Destiny Ascension fire it's main gun (you know, the one talked about in the first game but we never got to see) blow reaper ships in half before falling to concentrated reaper fire. I wanted to see mercenaries ramming reapers in suicide runs, turian frigates pounding the reapers before collapsing. Geth and quarian ships working in concert, shielding eachother before falling to the fire (though just geth in my case).

On the ground I wanted to see humans and turians fighting side by side, covered by asari biotics as salarians stealthily snuck behind the lines in a vain attempt at sabotaging key nodes. I wanted to see krogans collapse by the sheer weight of the husks charging them. Quarians desperately trying to repair broken geth as those very geth cover them, being mowed down by the unstoppable hordes.

I wanted to see it. Not just imagine it. But what did we get? One alliance ship exploding, Shepard looking up sadly, and on to the timeskip.

FlareKnight · 2012-06-30, 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

I know what it's about, but only because it's told to me. I didn't get to see it.

I wanted at least one ending where my war assets mattered. At least one ending where I could see the united fleets crash in space, with the ships I salvaged and the races I gathered rather than just one generic cutscene. Even if they lost, I would have loved to see the Destiny Ascension fire it's main gun (you know, the one talked about in the first game but we never got to see) blow reaper ships in half before falling to concentrated reaper fire. I wanted to see mercenaries ramming reapers in suicide runs, turian frigates pounding the reapers before collapsing. Geth and quarian ships working in concert, shielding eachother before falling to the fire (though just geth in my case).

On the ground I wanted to see humans and turians fighting side by side, covered by asari biotics as salarians stealthily snuck behind the lines in a vain attempt at sabotaging key nodes. I wanted to see krogans collapse by the sheer weight of the husks charging them. Quarians desperately trying to repair broken geth as those very geth cover them, being mowed down by the unstoppable hordes.

I wanted to see it. Not just imagine it. But what did we get? One alliance ship exploding, Shepard looking up sadly, and on to the timeskip.

This was the dream right here. Actually having all those stupid war assets actually mattering and seeing this grand battle. I wouldn't even care if we never won if I could have seen that battle occur. Seeing the various tactics of forces that have come together against a common enemy and of course the potential for the ground battle.

Instead it all just remains a fantastic dream. Simply because Bioware didn't want people to choose that. Couldn't possibly make an ending more flashy than their preferred choices.

Waven · 2012-06-30, 19:14

What would be a good ending, despite the shown impact of war assets? Would you have to rewrite ME3 completely? Even parts of ME2? The new endings are merely OK but what could be changed to make a good ending that would tend to most of the (justified) criticism?
I'm not a fan of the indoctrination ending theory since it results in a simple and boring "we beat the baddies and their jedi mind tricks - ze end !" scenario that would get rid of any deeper meaning. Personally I'm fond of the general concept of endings that depict massive impact/change in mankind/sentient life, ME3 just didn't execute them well.

Didn't really follow the discussion that much lately so if someone already came up with a good idea point me to it, I'll gladly replace the existing endings in my head with it

. I myself haven't come up with one yet, though.

kenjiharima · 2012-06-30, 20:42

I think this is a appropriate thread to post this.

Finally kotobukiya made a Shepard figure!

http://sadpanda.us/images/1052487-QTTBIJH.jpg

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2012-06-30, 21:09

One minor thing is, ME3 essentially murdered any prospects of Mass Effect having long term future prospects in Japan. By deciding to pick Robot Racism as the official political stance of Bioware, they have cut off the Japanese audience. It's a choice they made themselves, and no one else.

There is nothing wrong with having in-story racist characters; but when the creators themselves support the stance, a line is crossed.

kenjiharima · 2012-06-30, 21:19

Extended Ending Reviews

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go4fx5Gf4LY

AngryJoe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nINYfgEG2w

I was still thinking that EA might have probably planned this ending already which they will bring in as a payable DLC imho.

SoldierOfDarkness · 2012-06-30, 21:46

Quote:

One minor thing is, ME3 essentially murdered any prospects of Mass Effect having long term future prospects in Japan. By deciding to pick Robot Racism as the official political stance of Bioware, they have cut off the Japanese audience. It's a choice they made themselves, and no one else.

There is nothing wrong with having in-story racist characters; but when the creators themselves support the stance, a line is crossed.

Really? Don't you think that's going a little too far?

Granted I hate it as much as you do but I don't think the Japanese could care about it....

On that matter to MP.

I was playing as the Cerberus Adept and he's quite powerful. With maxed Smash and Lash I can do a ton of damage surprsingly. Heavy units like Geth Primes, pyros, ravagers, brutes, and even Banshees fall quickly.

The only problem I have is with Reapers.

When the Banshee comes, we all focus fire on the Banshee and kill her ASAP. It works but at the same time we also have Ravagers sniping us and Brutes coming in. I just don't know what to do with it here.

I think Banshees IMO needs to be tweaked or something. Their Instant kill is ridiculous as well as the teleportation.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2012-06-30, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Really? Don't you think that's going a little too far?

Granted I hate it as much as you do but I don't think the Japanese could care about it....

Bloware declared that robots are not just evil; that robots are ALWAYS evil, and that the only way to protect ourselves is to kill them all. This is an extremist view. This is also incompatible with Japanese cultural beliefs in the existence of life in all things, animate and inanimate.

This is one of those wide cultural gaps that are difficult to bridge. The American's fear and hatred of machines had always been irrational, and Mass Effect 3 is basically a love letter to the murder of all machines.

SoldierOfDarkness · 2012-06-30, 22:22

Yeah but Mass Effect 3 is a Canadian game.

Though on that matter.

I guess we can see why but I doubt the Japanese market is really that big of a deal nor would they be that critical.

Om Nerabdator · 2012-06-30, 23:11

Lets hope they keep bringing out endings till they get the damn thing right!!!!

Rising Dragon · 2012-06-30, 23:26

Why bother? Bioware's already proven it no longer gives a shit at this point. If Bioware no longer gives a shit about its customers, why should we give a shit about them and their products?

FlareKnight · 2012-07-01, 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenjiharima

Extended Ending Reviews

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go4fx5Gf4LY

I have to say that while long this video really matched well with many of my thoughts on the game. Like some choices in the previous games mattering and some not mattering at all like the Rachni choice in the first game. Could go on listing all the things I agreed about, but then it'd get rather lengthy. But do think the point on trust is key. The Extended Ending stuff was a decent step, but aren't going to get that trust back instantly. They'll have to make some damn good games and break out of this latest pattern for that. The fact that I'm doubtful about their ability to do that kind of lines up with the whole trust point anyways

.

DonQuigleone · 2012-07-01, 03:08

The other problem with these weird "transhuman" endings is that it's not really a plot point earlier in the series. Saren has weird transhuman fantasies, but he's a villain (and mad, you know?). In the context of the game, all of these beliefs only existed organisations that were cults, or indoctrinated. The beliefs of the protagonists have always been quite conventional: Kill the Reapers. Likewise, no one ever spends much time ruminating on the nature of existence. So inserting this kind of weirdness just doesn't fit.

The game only needs one ending: one where Shephard and his/her allies kick the ass of the reapers back to kingdom come, albeit at great loss. That, or they lose gloriously, but somehow manage to save humanity. Also, for a game that generally eschewed Space Magic in most of it's codices (doing a very good job of at least seeming to be scientific) the ending is basically all space magic. How does the Crucible exactly destroy/control the Reapers? How does the wave that spreads out from the crucible get propogated by all the Relays? Hell if I know, it's all space magic.

While the game's SF is by no means particularly hard, as SF it still needs some kind of elaboration.

It's really a shame, because everything but the last 10 minutes was really quite satisfying, and a fitting end for decent trilogy of space operas. But people tend to remember the ending the most, so it all leaves a rather sour taste.

synaesthetic · 2012-07-01, 04:18

Pretty much. ME needed a Return of the Jedi ending. It needed an epic, climactic space battle while Shepard did her thing on the ground (and the thing on the ground should have been more epic, too, though it was certainly difficult enough gameplay-wise) and then an epic, Reaper-destroying conclusion.

The Crucible is a classic MacGuffin and its existence at all is simply lazy writing.

Keroko · 2012-07-01, 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Bloware declared that robots are not just evil; that robots are ALWAYS evil, and that the only way to protect ourselves is to kill them all. This is an extremist view. This is also incompatible with Japanese cultural beliefs in the existence of life in all things, animate and inanimate.

This is one of those wide cultural gaps that are difficult to bridge. The American's fear and hatred of machines had always been irrational, and Mass Effect 3 is basically a love letter to the murder of all machines.

Your logic only holds if you ignore the entirety of Rannoch and the other two endings besides destroy.

Seriously, ME1 was already lenient on the 'robots are always evil' and it was slowly erased even further with EDI and Joker in ME2. From the very moment you find Legion any remaining notion of 'robots are always evil' goes out the window, and Rannoch in ME3 only tossed some flowers on the grave.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2012-07-01, 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

Your logic only holds if you ignore the entirety of Rannoch and the other two endings besides destroy.

Seriously, ME1 was already lenient on the 'robots are always evil' and it was slowly erased even further with EDI and Joker in ME2. From the very moment you find Legion any remaining notion of 'robots are always evil' goes out the window, and Rannoch in ME3 only tossed some flowers on the grave.

I ignore the entirety of Rannoch BECAUSE the game ignored the entirety of Rannoch. Give and Take.

Further, it's not just the Destroy ending; the Synthesis ending also portrayed robots as evil, and killed them by making them no longer robots.

synaesthetic · 2012-07-01, 04:38

The synthesis ending is particularly egregious in that you're essentially forcing a massive fundamental change on every living thing in the galaxy--synthetic and organic. And not just the known races, but all the unknown ones and all the non-sentient ones as well.

Which is basically ripping off the crappy transhumanist ending from DXIW.

Waven · 2012-07-01, 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I ignore the entirety of Rannoch BECAUSE the game ignored the entirety of Rannoch. Give and Take.

Further, it's not just the Destroy ending; the Synthesis ending also portrayed robots as evil, and killed them by making them no longer robots.

It also completely changed all organic life so I don't see that particular point.

What I would argue, though, is that the synthesis ending only achieves peace by physically equalizing every being. This is where badly-written/faulty reaper-creators' logic comes into play: The notion of fatalism that artificial life will always try to destroy its creators with no possibility of equal coexistance is just downright pessimistic. Thats where, as you mentioned, the game ignored the Rannoch plot (reputation check choice ofc)

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2012-07-01, 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waven

It also completely changed all organic life so I don't see that particular point.

What I would argue, though, is that the synthesis ending only achieves peace by physically equalizing every being. This is where badly-written/faulty reaper-creators' logic comes into play: The notion of fatalism that artificial life will always try to destroy its creators with no possibility of equal coexistance is just downright pessimistic. Thats where, as you mentioned, the game ignored the Rannoch plot (reputation check choice ofc)

It doesn't matter that organic lives were changed. The choice was only offered by the Reaper God because Synthetics need to be removed.

The only way to keep the Synthetics is by literally commanding the Reapers against their will to abandon their goal. As I said before, you have to keep in mind that the choices offered were all granted by the Star Child at his convenience.

2012-06-30, 15:13	Link #3281
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	isn't losing tragically what the refusal ending is about? or perhaps do you want a slide montage similar to the ones seen in the other 3 endings that would be nice, I suppose __________________ "Legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice—that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can’t treat one group differently from another.” Malcolm Gladwell

2012-06-30, 20:42	Link #3285
kenjiharima Mizore-chan Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Moe Land Age: 43	I think this is a appropriate thread to post this. Finally kotobukiya made a Shepard figure! http://sadpanda.us/images/1052487-QTTBIJH.jpg __________________ Vampire+Sisters

2012-06-30, 21:09	Link #3286
Vallen Chaos Valiant Logician and Romantic Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Within my mind Age: 43	One minor thing is, ME3 essentially murdered any prospects of Mass Effect having long term future prospects in Japan. By deciding to pick Robot Racism as the official political stance of Bioware, they have cut off the Japanese audience. It's a choice they made themselves, and no one else. There is nothing wrong with having in-story racist characters; but when the creators themselves support the stance, a line is crossed. __________________

2012-06-30, 21:19	Link #3287
kenjiharima Mizore-chan Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Moe Land Age: 43	Extended Ending Reviews http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go4fx5Gf4LY <p>No iframe support, please <a href="http://youtu.be/go4fx5Gf4LY">watch on YouTube</a>.</p> AngryJoe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nINYfgEG2w <p>No iframe support, please <a href="http://youtu.be/6nINYfgEG2w">watch on YouTube</a>.</p> I was still thinking that EA might have probably planned this ending already which they will bring in as a payable DLC imho. __________________ Vampire+Sisters

2012-06-30, 22:22	Link #3290
SoldierOfDarkness The Dark Knight Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think? Age: 38	Yeah but Mass Effect 3 is a Canadian game. Though on that matter. <p>No iframe support, please <a href="http://youtu.be/3owLjBkEtHs">watch on YouTube</a>.</p> I guess we can see why but I doubt the Japanese market is really that big of a deal nor would they be that critical.

2012-06-30, 15:23	Link #3282
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	I know what it's about, but only because it's told to me. I didn't get to see it. I wanted at least one ending where my war assets mattered. At least one ending where I could see the united fleets crash in space, with the ships I salvaged and the races I gathered rather than just one generic cutscene. Even if they lost, I would have loved to see the Destiny Ascension fire it's main gun (you know, the one talked about in the first game but we never got to see) blow reaper ships in half before falling to concentrated reaper fire. I wanted to see mercenaries ramming reapers in suicide runs, turian frigates pounding the reapers before collapsing. Geth and quarian ships working in concert, shielding eachother before falling to the fire (though just geth in my case). On the ground I wanted to see humans and turians fighting side by side, covered by asari biotics as salarians stealthily snuck behind the lines in a vain attempt at sabotaging key nodes. I wanted to see krogans collapse by the sheer weight of the husks charging them. Quarians desperately trying to repair broken geth as those very geth cover them, being mowed down by the unstoppable hordes. I wanted to see it. Not just imagine it. But what did we get? One alliance ship exploding, Shepard looking up sadly, and on to the timeskip.

2012-06-30, 19:14	Link #3284
Waven Itadaki-nyaaa !! Join Date: Apr 2008	What would be a good ending, despite the shown impact of war assets? Would you have to rewrite ME3 completely? Even parts of ME2? The new endings are merely OK but what could be changed to make a good ending that would tend to most of the (justified) criticism? I'm not a fan of the indoctrination ending theory since it results in a simple and boring "we beat the baddies and their jedi mind tricks - ze end !" scenario that would get rid of any deeper meaning. Personally I'm fond of the general concept of endings that depict massive impact/change in mankind/sentient life, ME3 just didn't execute them well. Didn't really follow the discussion that much lately so if someone already came up with a good idea point me to it, I'll gladly replace the existing endings in my head with it . I myself haven't come up with one yet, though.

2012-06-30, 23:11	Link #3291
Om Nerabdator ~Maru~ Join Date: Mar 2008	Lets hope they keep bringing out endings till they get the damn thing right!!!! __________________

2012-06-30, 23:26	Link #3292
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Why bother? Bioware's already proven it no longer gives a shit at this point. If Bioware no longer gives a shit about its customers, why should we give a shit about them and their products? __________________

2012-07-01, 03:08	Link #3294
DonQuigleone Knight Errant Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dublin, Ireland Age: 35	The other problem with these weird "transhuman" endings is that it's not really a plot point earlier in the series. Saren has weird transhuman fantasies, but he's a villain (and mad, you know?). In the context of the game, all of these beliefs only existed organisations that were cults, or indoctrinated. The beliefs of the protagonists have always been quite conventional: Kill the Reapers. Likewise, no one ever spends much time ruminating on the nature of existence. So inserting this kind of weirdness just doesn't fit. The game only needs one ending: one where Shephard and his/her allies kick the ass of the reapers back to kingdom come, albeit at great loss. That, or they lose gloriously, but somehow manage to save humanity. Also, for a game that generally eschewed Space Magic in most of it's codices (doing a very good job of at least seeming to be scientific) the ending is basically all space magic. How does the Crucible exactly destroy/control the Reapers? How does the wave that spreads out from the crucible get propogated by all the Relays? Hell if I know, it's all space magic. While the game's SF is by no means particularly hard, as SF it still needs some kind of elaboration. It's really a shame, because everything but the last 10 minutes was really quite satisfying, and a fitting end for decent trilogy of space operas. But people tend to remember the ending the most, so it all leaves a rather sour taste.

2012-07-01, 04:18	Link #3295
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 39	Pretty much. ME needed a Return of the Jedi ending. It needed an epic, climactic space battle while Shepard did her thing on the ground (and the thing on the ground should have been more epic, too, though it was certainly difficult enough gameplay-wise) and then an epic, Reaper-destroying conclusion. The Crucible is a classic MacGuffin and its existence at all is simply lazy writing. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2012-07-01, 04:38	Link #3298
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 39	The synthesis ending is particularly egregious in that you're essentially forcing a massive fundamental change on every living thing in the galaxy--synthetic and organic. And not just the known races, but all the unknown ones and all the non-sentient ones as well. Which is basically ripping off the crappy transhumanist ending from DXIW. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!