Dating

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

LMFAO @ Constructing the ladder...wow I had a good laugh ^_^

Oh good, then it wasn't just me. I know this is supposed to be a serious discussion and all, but "The Abyss" just struck me as hilarious.

[Marina]

Originally Posted by Vestus

I think the "ladder theory" is a bunch of BS invented by depressed/angry/cynical guys for the sole purpose to excuse their failure from the friend->boyfriend transition so that the true reason would remain hidden.

If it isn't what I stated above, then it's a bunch of BS invented to give girls a reason/excuse to reject their not-so-popular guy friends. So, they can go after the badass/popular guy.
(Who in the long-term will probably get fat and end up with no job. While the nerdy/otaku/etc. guy who got rejected will "pretty" himself [no gay pun intended] because he got rejected and end up with a high-paying job because he actually did good in school. Then, that nerdy/otaku/etc. guy will end up with a nice girl).

"Ladder Theory" aside. If she doesn't go out with you then she fails to see your "potential" (I have a generalization that all nerds/notakus have a great romantic potential) and you should forget about a girl like that because she obviously is into the "hot" guys.

It's not BS if it's sadly true. And just b/c a guy is good-looking does not mean in anyway that he'll end up "fat w/ no job," nor does it mean that he's "popular." That just sounds like a jealous prediction. There are a lot of potentially good-looking guys who are not popular b/c of the way they dress or how they act around others (shy, withdrawn, EMO). I have no qualms with nerdy guys since I find them more interesting, but there's no harm in a good-looking nerdy guy, is there? If not good-looking, then at least clean. Why do girls so often avoid "nerds?" B/c they've run across too many that look like they slept in their clothes for a week and just look questionably creepy. Clean, please! Also, most girls do look at the personality, it's the guys who are usually physically oriented. But of course girls are still going to be drawn by looks first, physical attraction is key to a point. A relationship will have a hard time progressing if you have no physical desire for your partner.
Your thought that "all nerds/notakus have a great romantic potential" is true to a certain extent since you could say the same thing about almost ANY type of guy. You can't just pin that to one type, people don't work so predictably.
All a guy can do is have a clean presentation, a friendly personality, and the key points of honesty, dependability, and the ability to communicate. I'd notice any guy like that whether he's handsome or not: just a "good" guy, and if the girl is worth it she'll notice as well.

[ReizoSan]

Originally Posted by RaizeN

Ive felt like some girls are out of my league and some waaay above mine but Ive always said yes whit out hesitation... I dont liek to hurt people feelings.

No one is out of your league apart from celebrities, i would just clean up (so shave yourself and don;t let your hair grow too long keep it short and maybe change your appearance of what you wear, don't be like a guy at college who just wears this one dragon shirt every day and hes always in the same clothes, just buy some cool skating gear, then don;t be nervous that is key i find it real easy to talk to women it comes naturally to me so its harder for other people but just talk to them and ask some sensible questions and statements, there must be a good guide on how to chat girls up somewhere on the internet, if not then just improvise, and be nice.
But still if you think they are too high look down a bit there is always the perfect type of girl somewhere around you.

[Vestus]

Originally Posted by Marina

It's not BS if it's sadly true. And just b/c a guy is good-looking does not mean in anyway that he'll end up "fat w/ no job," nor does it mean that he's "popular." That just sounds like a jealous prediction. There are a lot of potentially good-looking guys who are not popular b/c of the way they dress or how they act around others (shy, withdrawn, EMO). I have no qualms with nerdy guys since I find them more interesting, but there's no harm in a good-looking nerdy guy, is there? If not good-looking, then at least clean. Why do girls so often avoid "nerds?" B/c they've run across too many that look like they slept in their clothes for a week and just look questionably creepy. Clean, please! Also, most girls do look at the personality, it's the guys who are usually physically oriented. But of course girls are still going to be drawn by looks first, physical attraction is key to a point. A relationship will have a hard time progressing if you have no physical desire for your partner.
Your thought that "all nerds/notakus have a great romantic potential" is true to a certain extent since you could say the same thing about almost ANY type of guy. You can't just pin that to one type, people don't work so predictably.
All a guy can do is have a clean presentation, a friendly personality, and the key points of honesty, dependability, and the ability to communicate. I'd notice any guy like that whether he's handsome or not: just a "good" guy, and if the girl is worth it she'll notice as well.

I see your point, and I still see the ladder theory as a valid theory. I still think it's BS though since I've seen people jump from the bottom of the friendship ladder to the top of the romantic potential ladder (A girl made that jump for me).

However, that's besides the point. In dating/relationships, one shouldn't care about the ladder theory. Because in the end, if the girl/guy doesn't notice you, then he/she isn't worth your time (assuming you're a good girl/guy and you've tried your best).

In the end, what I'm trying to say is that ladder theory on applies to people who don't notice your romantic potential (again, assuming you're a girl/guy and you've tried your best), and therefore shouldn't be worth your time.

(Sry, about the little rant, the ladder theory pisses me off since my bestfriend got caught up in it and thought the girl wouldn't "say yes" because of the "ladder theory". Even though the girl really wanted him to ask her out.)

[Fome]

Well the ladder theory certainly has it's exceptions. But I think it holds true for the vast majority of people, at least in the USA. Like Vestus mentions, if you are capable of seeing the exceptions, then you don't need the ladder theory. It's more for people who are inexperienced and interpret "friendly" gestures as "romantic" ones.

[Ledgem]

I don't know whether the ladder theory is true or not. The discussion going on around it points out an important concept, though: everyone is unique, everyone is an individual. We're all human and thus we all follow somewhat similar behavioral patterns to a certain extent, but if love and relationships were a science that could be explained by such simple theories I don't think there'd be so much anxiety and uncertainty surrounding it.

Pay attention to theories and advice, but in the end remember that you and the other person are unique individuals. Your relationship may be similar to those of others in certain ways and to a certain extent, but there are aspects about it that will not be found in any other relationship. Keep it in mind.

[deathreape98]

@Ledgem That is very true...

[Fome]

Very true ledgem. The issue is that some people see things that aren't really there as a result of wishful thinking or inexperience.

[King Lycan]

Originally Posted by raikage

Or... y'know, wait. Depending on how old you are (the younger = the greater the chance) relationships don't last forever. They'll break up eventually.

Or perhaps just give up. I refer you to the concept of ladder jumping.



It is possible, but not likely to make the jump. It's much more likely that you'll fall into the Abyss of awkwardness.

OMG being in the abyss sucks coconuts

[Kristen]

Originally Posted by raikage

Firstly, I'm not sure if your boyfriend would mind all THAT much.

Secondly, either clue them all in, or dump one of them. It's not fair to either, to believe that you're "exclusive" (for a lack of better term) and have that not be the case.



Try to break them up. Then watch as not only does it not happen, but she cuts you off from her life forever. (May or may not include fists being exchanged with the current boyfriend.)

Or... y'know, wait. Depending on how old you are (the younger = the greater the chance) relationships don't last forever. They'll break up eventually.

Or perhaps just give up. I refer you to the concept of ladder jumping.



It is possible, but not likely to make the jump. It's much more likely that you'll fall into the Abyss of awkwardness.

That ladder is inaccurate. It should be making more of a "V" shape than parrellel. For, the further I, and I assume most girls, are friends with a guy, the less willing I am to become anything more than friends.

[Fome]

No I think the ladder is fine. The idea is that, when you are lower, you are less likely to get hurt trying to jump across, since the fall isn't as high.

[deathreape98]

How exactly do you kiss? My gf had a dream of me kissing her, and I don't want to disappoint her when it happens...

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by deathreape98

How exactly do you kiss? My gf had a dream of me kissing her, and I don't want to disappoint her when it happens...

Well, hard one, trying to compete against dreams is always very difficult. There is so much more then just the kissing action involved. Her feromones, serotonines and dopamines won't appear so suddenly, so you better prepare your first kiss. Think about something romantic... if you know on what she reacts sensitive (e.g. whispering in her ear and kissing her neck ~ I guess you should know what she likes - I can only guess). Be gentle, don't rush things... well kissing itself (its different, sometimes the tongue contact and mouth to mouth action isn't the most important thing... it might be more important how you hold her.. e.g. one hand hip, the other neck and bringing her in a position where she is leaning a little bit backwards - but you must hold her gentle yet tight, since you do not want her to fall ... thats again just a guess (happens that some girls do not like the unballanced position... might be sign she does not trust you or your skills/strength )... now tongue contact... don't force her your tongue into her mouth!!! ... you maybe start close to her lips... well I guess you will be able to read the signs and I need not explain in detail how to play or when to increase the contact... maybe, if you are lucky that ends in a frenzy... but I somehow doubt it... first kiss ).

Most important, if you always think what to do next, in order to do it right, chances are high you'll fail. In that very moment it should be hard for you to keep a clear thought anyway, so if you want to keep something in your mind, then not to jump the gun on kissing.

First amandment is, you both need to feel comfortable. There is no point in one of you having fun and the other being irritated or something alike. Though you should feel that when she is irritated, thats pretty obvious, since she will be rather defensive and stiff in a way. Look into her eyes before you start to kiss her, but not like you want to eat her... more like you would look at the christmas presents under the christmas tree, when you were young.

Now I gave you so much advice, that it must fail

[Lonestar9]

Originally Posted by deathreape98

How exactly do you kiss? My gf had a dream of me kissing her, and I don't want to disappoint her when it happens...

Wait....what? How do you kiss? Never seen anyone kiss before?

sorry, couldn't resist...it's very easy, you just go ahead and do it when the moment is right for that first kiss, it should be light at first, and if you sense she liked it, then go for the kill, errr, kiss longer, open your mouth, kiss around it, just experiment and see what works!

Also with the first time, hopefully she'll understand if it's not perfect, kissing seems to be one of those things that improves a lot with practice...

[Spectacular_Insanity]

I read that link to that article, and I saw this:

Scenario 3: A girl says any of the following to you:

• "You're like a brother to me"
• "You're like a big teddy bear"
• "I feel like I can talk to you about anything"
• "You're so nice"
• "Can you help me with my homework"

...Well, shit. She HAS said that to me. My chances are seeming REALLY LOW right about now. And that's not even considering the fact that she already has a boyfriend. I'm gonna conclude that trying to jump ladders would just be suicidal.

[deathreape98]

First amandment is, you both need to feel comfortable. There is no point in one of you having fun and the other being irritated or something alike. Though you should feel that when she is irritated, thats pretty obvious, since she will be rather defensive and stiff in a way. Look into her eyes before you start to kiss her, but not like you want to eat her... more like you would look at the christmas presents under the christmas tree, when you were young

Well, she dreamed that we were sitting at the computer watching youtube then I did something that was scary yet good, so I'm assuming it was a kiss. Although, it could be something more, and if that's so....that'll be rather strange :P

But anyways, I've never kissed a girl before, so I'm new to this stuff. I'll try to just go with the flow, and go in when the mood is right. I'll try to forget about it, I'm probably over-thinking it all. As Jinto said, I'll try to not plan...

[ChibiMenos]

Originally Posted by deathreape98

How exactly do you kiss? My gf had a dream of me kissing her, and I don't want to disappoint her when it happens...

I guess the most important thing is whether she's as inexperienced as you are. If she's not, chances are she will be taking over and showing you exactly what to do--if, on the other hand, she's never kissed anyone before, it'll be a new experience for both of you, and with a little luck she'll be overwhelmed simply by the fact that you actually (OMG!! squeeee!) kissed her, and you won't have to worry about doing it "right". Either way, it sounds like she's hinting that she really wants you to kiss her, given that she actually told you about that dream.

Other things to keep in mind...

-Asking if you can kiss her isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it can somewhat ruin the moment, so if you're pretty sure she wants you to kiss her, just go ahead and do it. (If this results in her turning her head so you get her cheek or hair, you probably should have asked first.)

-I'd say using your tongue at all on the first kiss would be a definite NO. It's another step up from "regular" kissing, and it's best to build up to it a little, especially if you're inexperienced--otherwise it could really put a girl off. (My dad has a story from his college days.... On their very first date, the girl grabbed him and proceeded to stick her tongue halfway down his throat. Needless to say, he did not ask her out again.) That's not to say that you can't go ahead with it, if she indicates she'd prefer it, but it's best not to take the chance of making her feel uncomfortable.

-She might not like it right away. It could be because you're not very good yet (if this is the case, hopefully she will tell you, and maybe suggest that you practice kissing together ), it might just be because it's not how she imagined it would be (this happened with me), or maybe it's because she was all tense and nervous about it (more likely to happen if you ask her for permission first), or it could just take some time for her to react. After my first kiss, I felt nothing really--but the next day my brain felt all melted and weird, a little like when I went into shock after falling off my bike and opening up my knee, and I couldn't stop thinking about him...

-Real kissing isn't like movie kissing. Find what works for you both, and don't pay attention to what it looks like. Nobody who might see you will be caring how you kiss--and after all, they're not the one you're kissing, anyway.

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

...Well, shit. She HAS said that to me. My chances are seeming REALLY LOW right about now. And that's not even considering the fact that she already has a boyfriend. I'm gonna conclude that trying to jump ladders would just be suicidal.

I'd say that's not always true--sometimes girls need an excuse to get close to a guy, and if they have classes in common, asking for help studying is generally a pretty "safe" way of doing that.

Given that she has a boyfriend, though, I agree that it's probably best not to try for her.

[deathreape98]

Yeah, I'm her first boyfriend, and vice versa. I'll just hope for the best and hope that shes like "wow!"

[Syaoran]

Originally Posted by deathreape98

How exactly do you kiss? My gf had a dream of me kissing her, and I don't want to disappoint her when it happens...

It just comes when it happens
Before I ever kissed someone I was also wondering how it would go and if I'd meet up to the expecations etc... When the occasion presented itself it just happened. Nothing complicated and nothing you need to do homework for :3
I was relieved when my partner said he liked it

[Knightmare213]

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

I read that link to that article, and I saw this:

...Well, shit. She HAS said that to me. My chances are seeming REALLY LOW right about now. And that's not even considering the fact that she already has a boyfriend. I'm gonna conclude that trying to jump ladders would just be suicidal.

After my experience from school, I'd say jumping the ladder is suicidal. Sorry to break the bad news, but being with this girl, especially, if she has a boyfriend, would meant that not only will you be ending a good friendship, but it would probably bring a lot of grief being stuck in the same room with her until the end of the year. Also, don't assume that this girl's bf is on the way out either. That's just YOUR view, which can be largely flawed and wrong.

Not only that, even if she knows you even after she breaks up with her bf, it's best not to date her either. From what I heard, Rebounded relationships don't last long.

But don't fret, man. "Plenty of fishes in the sea." I'm sure you'll find someone that's single and not just want you to help her with her homework.


@Deathreape89: You're lucky to be her first kiss. In relationships, we guys often suffer from the sins of the girls' ex-boyfriends. As long as you follow ChibiMenos' advice, I don't think it'll be that hard to make her feel like "'wow!'" Just choose the right moment, and right location, and right mood, you'll be fine.


And despite what Fome said, I think Chrissie is right about the ladder must being V-shaped. If you were higher on the V-shaped ladder, it would just be a lot harder to get across and the fall would even be much higher and more painful.