2011-04-12, 04:59 | Link #381 | |||||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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I guess understanding the full extent of producing anime in general require a direct report from an insider, although I believe there were production costs thrown here and there in the past. It is however extremely difficult to gauge your average budget, considering how the rendition of an anime series can be between extremely mediocre and "OVA-like". That being said, I believe it is a fair point to consider their "craft" as not the norm, considering how few studios are actually doing the same kind of efforts (or relatively speaking, dishing out the "same kind of budget"). To put it bluntly, there isn't much competitors even if you factor simple designed things like LS/K-on/Nichijou. If we consider your usual "runmill" studios like JC Staff/DEEN/ZEXS/Xebec/etc, we are probably going to end on a common conclusion. Things is that, "quality" becomes more and more a relative apprieciation of the fans, and while some people would cry genius over animation galore (even of different genre, like either ambiant detail for K-on/Nishjou, or upfront action animation, like TTGL/Star Driver), some would rather want a scenary "porn" (Ef series despite having an abysmal animation, or currently, Hanasaku Iroha). That brings even more problems regarding what to "consider" really as good production in general, if you were to be on the "opposite" side (I just say it in general, I'm in no position to call what you are expecting to be good production value). Quote:
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That being said, I think we can give proper credits for a studio when it comes to consistency and "middle ground" quality that should be applied to any genre (like design consistency, colors, camera pan etc), and how often they can pull it off (for example, as much as PA Works definitely delivered eye candy stuff like Canaan and Hanasaku Iroha, they went almost close to Xebec level with Angel Beats). Quote:
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However, as much as I agree they should try to expose themselves to new horizons, I think haruhi issue is relevant to their problem: KyoAni is, contrary to what many people believe, a small studio. They aren't anything close to big shots like Sunrise, Madhouse or Bones, which is even more noticeable if you check their history. Therefore, we are pretty much seeing the producer side being overly dominant: Endless Eight fiasco was pretty much the clear indication of that (despite it did require budget to reiterate each episode with clear different scenes, although the content was basically a copy paste X7). It is even more obvious when they are starting to rack Movies projects, which you wouldn't even expect them to do so prior 2008, as they are bound to make popular sequel. I dunno, it is perhaps I rather see the industry itself as stagnant that I'm not really bothered by KyoAni stance.
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2011-04-12, 05:04 | Link #382 | |
I don't give a damn, dude
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Despair
Age: 37
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And for a more up-to-date example, although nobody wants to acknowledge its existence, it has to be said that the Munto reboot, if nothing else, does show that KyoAni still has what it takes to deliver the breathtaking action scenes, especially if you're talking about the more recently-animated second half. Really, the only thing with KyoAni is whether they want to. Last edited by Ascaloth; 2011-04-12 at 05:16. Reason: Not movie, reboot, blah |
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2011-04-12, 05:28 | Link #383 | ||||
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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I personally really like the style of ~ef, but I did notice as you said, the animation quality was not too great and why I can't say Shaft is as quality of studio in this department as KyoAni. Quote:
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I can't exactly comment on FMP: TSR (I never made it that far in FMP). Though I must ask if every episode was action packed or not, where budget is inevitably lost? I ask this because if the show had lead up to fights in arcs or something of that nature (1 big fight every 3-6 episodes), then it isn't quite the same. I don't doubt they possess they have the ability to perhaps provide quality in a single instance or two, or maybe even three in a series of such nature. What I do question, and I don't know and I don't presume to know the answer to, is if they possess the ability to maintain this for this kind of show, episode by episode like a Code Geass (I mention it only because it's a big one, not vouching for its quality, just using as a base of comparison). Only then can I say that it is a fair comparison. Problem is, like I keep saying, they haven't given us a real opportunity to make such a comparison since they haven't really ventured outside their comfort zone. -------------------------- EDIT: Another thing that I should say... If KyoAni manages to become a bigger studio that produces more shows in the future like a Sunrise/Madhouse/Bones, will they be able to maintain what they've done up till this point? I know BONES is still pretty great at delivering quality after all this time.
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2011-04-12, 05:35 | Link #384 | ||||
I don't give a damn, dude
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Despair
Age: 37
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2011-04-12, 05:44 | Link #385 | ||
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Hah, well I'm just throwing the idea out there. It could be that we may be spoiled right now due to KyoAni being a small studio with in house animators that produce very few series. In the future this may not be the case.
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2011-04-12, 06:05 | Link #386 | |||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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What I meant is that I don't mind KyoAni stance because they are actually trying "new franchises", even though they are essentially similar due to the themes, whereas the industry is stuck with recurrent fanservice stuff etc. I personally don't like Nichijou's humour that much (only 1 scene per episode really cracked me up, that's it), but I have to admit that it is fairly different from what we usually have. Likewise, even if it was a simple "moe blob slice of high school life", K-on wasn't following the usual trend of the industry (although, marketing and goods are a totally different story). Of course, I would really call creativity/upside-down path for KyoAni should they decide to make a full action series, or something entierely different (Thriller, etc). Quote:
But the rendition of the fights are definitely on the high standards. The so famous lambdadriver scene is one among many... in fact, if you remember that weird "energy shield colliding" scene in the Cave Cricket episode of Haruhi 2006, you will realize quickly where it comes from I would definitely recommend this series though (along with Fumoffu): even in this "day and age", FMP franchise is quite fresh. You will understand why so many people are begging blood and tears for a sequel. Damn, that makes me want to watch TSR again Quote:
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2011-04-12, 07:39 | Link #387 | |
I don't give a damn, dude
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Despair
Age: 37
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Spoiler for unanimated FMP material:
doing its stuff would look like, with the KyoAni Lambda Driver effect. |
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2011-04-12, 08:11 | Link #388 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Why, of course. This is even "worse" as I've just rewatched the first 4 episodes, and really, it is hard to compute the fact it is from 2005 (you would rather expect this series vintage to be around 2008-2010 instead).
And yeah, key moments of the LN would be a gigantic blast if they keep the same direction with a up to date budget/animation techniques. Geez, this discussion reminded me why I keep this series in my top 5
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2011-04-12, 08:28 | Link #389 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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If you look at Nichijou, it's not quite up to what they did with Haruhi 2006, but every scene is animated fluidly. If you look at episode 1, the explosion scene at the beginning was great, every object is being tossed around in a twisting manner, there's an attention to detail there. For what it is, I can't see it being animated any better. The other thing here is that Kyoto Animation is consistently high quality, the only other studio which can match this is PA Works (notwithstanding some parts of Angel Beats). Bones might produce stuff like FMA, but they also produce stuff along the lines of Star Driver. That's not to say I'm a Kyoto Animation Fanboy. I found lucky star dull, hated Kanon, was apathetic about Clannad (though I loved After Story...), and didn't even watch K-On. |
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2011-04-12, 08:42 | Link #390 |
Anime Snark
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 41
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I still consider FMP!:TSR to be one of the pinnacles of anime, and Kyoto's best anime series. FMP!:Fumoffu! is still epically funny in this day and age, I still can't help but sniggle every time I think of the Football episode (or the entire last episode).
PONY. If KyoAni ever gets around to animating another season of FMP!, I swear the Heavens will part with a radiant descending, singing choir of Angels as I sink to my knees weeping like an over-emotional weenie. Code Geass was an entertaining show which I enjoyed it very much for the camp, and there were very well animated fights, but the series as a whole also had its "QUALITY" moments, and recycled frames. Something which is very lacking from KyoAni. Not to mention the level of gore... if I have to use a comparison, it's akin to GitS. Throat slit in TSR anyone? Military action aside, TSR was also about a coming of age for the Protagonist, Sousuke. You really feel his character growing. There were also some comedic elements, but TSR was mostly on the serious side. That said... if anybody intends to dive into the FMP-series and do not wish to read the Light Novels that they are based on, they will need to watch the original series made by GONZO (with assistance from KyoAni). Otherwise a lot of plot elements will be lost on them in TSR. GONZO being GONZO... well, it's not entirely bad, it's still good, but... ... Cheers.
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2011-04-12, 13:42 | Link #391 | ||
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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I suppose I wouldn't really be here if it weren't for Haruhi specifically. The way they managed to provide such a refreshing and invigorating story to me, I'd like to see the same in other areas. I mean since they boast a good record at adapting KEY VN's, why not try adapting a VN of another type? For example, I know you reviewed Sharin no Kuni Himawari no Shoujo and liked it, could they manage to adapt a story as difficult as that one? It seems to contain elements that they'd be good at expressing, but at the same time poses a unique challenge (It has many darker elements, and the main lead is often not the nicest guy). Quote:
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2011-04-12, 14:32 | Link #392 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
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It's a bit ironic as I think FMP:TSR quite compares favourable to top selling late night mecha like Code Geass, and Macross Frontier, or shonen shows like Gundam Seed, 00 and Star Driver. Maybe a new FMP:Fomufo would have more succes if Goutou still has some of those stories lying around. That show's razorsharp comedy timing remains unsurpassed. Quote:
I think they over-extended themselves in that period as they had like 8 projects going in that period (from anidb). While before and after they never did more then 2 things a year. Compare this to say P.A.Works who have done 2 projects a year for the last 4 years: one original animation and one subcontracting job. After the late 2008-2009 period quality increased again. The Haruhi movie, while not a TV-anime, had almost as much effective run time as a single cour season is amongst their best work yet. K-on!! may look deceptively simple but in terms of directing and atmosphere it had far more to offer then it's prequel. Quote:
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2011-04-12, 14:54 | Link #393 | ||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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This season alone is a proof they really have competent staff to deliver dead serious stuff (or hilarious explosive humor, as shown in Fumoffu), so I would be entirely positive should they pick something like Sharin no Kuni. That being said, explained by Skane already, Gonzo's season is watchable, and you have to go through this stepstone to fully understand and enjoy TSR (and Fumoffu inbetween).
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2011-04-12, 15:33 | Link #394 | |
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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That said, I'm a bit doubtful of that game ever being adapted into anime because anime adaptations of VNs are often used to promote console ports, and Sharin no Kuni's Xbox 360 version came and went with no anime being announced.
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2011-04-12, 16:35 | Link #395 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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I find it very confusing that neither has gotten an adaption. If what you say is true though, it's a shame that an anime adaption may never be made for sharin no kuni himawari no shoujo. I feel like it's a good enough story to carry a lot of success though...
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Last edited by Reckoner; 2011-04-12 at 16:51. |
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2011-04-12, 16:41 | Link #396 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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The director said K-ON was not only for otaku. It's two years ago, so I don't remember the details. Quote:
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TBS is the one who wanted to make Key's anime and got animation rights from Key and asked KyoAni to make adaptations. The shows I don't know where came from very much are Fumoffu and K-ON! But it'd be safe to say they're not KyoAni's projects. Quote:
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2011-04-12, 17:27 | Link #397 | |
Me at work
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2011-04-12, 18:53 | Link #398 |
Disabled By Request
Join Date: Oct 2007
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I disagree on the comment regarding how successful FMP would be in this day and age...
Most anime viewers have seen one of the seasons, and it has received (and continues to receive) favorable comments. It has almost become a staple in any anime viewers repertoire. |
2011-04-13, 20:28 | Link #399 |
Udon-YAAAAAAAA
Join Date: Jan 2008
Age: 35
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yeah, my friend and i just had a conversation about watching that new show by KyoAni this season, then laughing at how far they've fallen since they've done TSR. TSR is by far one of the best shows ever made in the last decade. it depresses me to think it came out so long ago and that the studio hasn't been able to reproduce a show anywhere near its quality since. PA Works is the future and the only hope we can get something TSR like in the near future.
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2011-04-13, 20:36 | Link #400 | |
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Assuming Hanasaku Iroha is successful, which if it keeps up its quality will very much be so, then personally I would like P.A to produce something completely outside the slice of life genre. An epic sci-fi or fantasy/adventure series perhaps, and preferably an anime original, which all but one of their series has been so far. Then, it is possible to call them the future. Atm, it looks like SHAFT is currently the golden egg though in the diversity/creativity department. |
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