Dating

[Archontic]

My entire life has been a Picasso-reject as far as emotions go, and I'm all passioned out. My idea of love is that it shouldn't be furiously passionate, nor should it make you overflow with happiness. I'd much rather see it as a state of serenity and calmness. I don't want my heart to race or my thoughts to run together any more than they already do. I would imagine that 'true love' was a Nirvana that you didn't have to die to reach. (Nirvana is often a misused term; it's not a state of insane joy or anything, but a state of peace, calmness, wholeness, and unity with the universe).

I don't want any of that 'furious passion' bullshit.

And that's why I've been single since I was 16. XD

Regardless, to everyone who is comfortable with passion and is experiencing it, I congratulate you; to those still searching for it, I wish you luck and a great many epiphanies.

[King Lycan]

Originally Posted by ChibiMenos

I can't say I'm surprised...

Unless your girlfriend is one of those girls who is comfortable enough with herself to not mind you looking at other girls (which is very, very rare), and even if she is, what you did was pretty rude. You ignored her completely, instead paying attention to another girl... I think most people would be upset (imagine if she'd been paying attention to a very hot guy!).

It's good that you've tried to apologize, but it sounds a bit like you're only sorry because she's upset, and not because what you did was stupid. (Or at least that's what she thinks...) And buying her flowers might be going a bit overboard; she probably needs some time to cool down, and not be reminded of the incident. Since you have apologized, I think the best thing you can do now is to not bring it up anymore, and to be very careful of how you act towards other girls when you're around her now that you know paying too much attention to them upsets her. If you can keep from doing anything like that again, show respect to her, and make sure to let her know when she does something you like (ie, all the little things you love about her that are the reason she is your gf instead of some "hot very hot girl"), you should be just fine.

Thanks for your rresponse

[Nenkitsune]

My situation is a bit annoying. I would LOVE to date a girl. of course, standing behind the bar making coffee all day isn't exactly the best way to pick up girls, and seeing cute girls come in is TORTUOUS, but I'm too picky. I don't like outgoing extroverts. I like introverts. I think i'm a little odd in that part. Of course, unless i start school back up I doubt i'll meet many people. Anyways, because of my impossible taste in girls i've decided not to look for one till Harumi (my 78 280z) is looking halfway decent and has a turbo under the hood. (so....probably a year or so)

[deathreape98]

liking introverts is perfectly fine, everybody has their own tastes. But yeah, to find one, I would advise starting school back up, and join extracirricular activities you enjoy.


Yesterday, my gf and I made out for the first time....and it feels great o-o

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Nenkitsune

My situation is a bit annoying. I would LOVE to date a girl. of course, standing behind the bar making coffee all day isn't exactly the best way to pick up girls, and seeing cute girls come in is TORTUOUS, but I'm too picky. I don't like outgoing extroverts. I like introverts. I think i'm a little odd in that part. Of course, unless i start school back up I doubt i'll meet many people. Anyways, because of my impossible taste in girls i've decided not to look for one till Harumi (my 78 280z) is looking halfway decent and has a turbo under the hood. (so....probably a year or so)

Your fascination with cars would probably match you better with the stereotypical extroverted girl than the stereotypical introverted one

As was mentioned above, there's nothing wrong with liking introverts over extroverts. I was the same way. My fear was that being mostly introverted myself, dating an extrovert would result in a clash of lifestyles and possibly values. In my experience, my fears were largely true. You want to maximize compatibility where you can.

But if you're too picky, you'll never really get a feel for what you really want. We all have the statistics of our ideal woman in our minds, but thinking it is different than experiencing it. I don't recommend doing this at work, but if you see a girl and feel an attraction to her, then take any chances that come your way to get to know her better. You're not committing to her, and you're getting a feel for who she is. Maybe she won't be as extroverted as you'd first judged her to be, or maybe you'll discover that you enjoy some extroverted activities.

Additionally, how many girls feel the need to put on a show and go to parties all the time because they're afraid that no guy would want them or be able to find them otherwise? I've known a few. Arguably they're not "true" introverts if they can do that, but that sort of lifestyle - the lifestyle that would make you judge them as being extroverts - isn't what makes them happy.

If you've dated dozens of girls, then feel free to ignore my advice - I'm going under the assumption that most of us on this thread have little to no dating experience. I'm happily in a relationship, but the advice I give here is the advice I would give to myself four, maybe even five years ago if I could. Constantly waiting on who you might judge to be miss perfect, always holding out for someone to take the initiative with you... it's not easy, and for introverts it takes a lot of courage (and adrenaline-induced anxiety) but it'd be better to actively shop around. You'll get a better feel for people, you'll gain more experience in approaching people about possible romance, you'll gain more self confidence, and you'll lose some of that frustration derived from not dating because you'll be actively working toward something.

[Nenkitsune]

surprisingly i never really liked dating extroverts, despite my hobbies. i am farily introverted at heart, so that might have something to do with it.

introverts it takes a lot of courage (and adrenaline-induced anxiety)

you have no idea. the like, 2 times i asked a girl out in person, i nearly passed out. nearly meaning my vision was fading fast haha.
i know what you mean with a lot of what you said, but it's a pretty nice reminder ^__^

[Archontic]

The funny thing is, Nen, that it seems like more girls are attracted to you the less you try to attract them. I always managed to get fangirls every time I started dating someone, it's so illogical. If you don't try to stress yourself into something, the odds are that you'll find it easier anyways. Some girls like the strong silent type, and others like the extroverted and aggressive type. However, most people are a little put off by people who fumble around.

Just because you're introverted doesn't mean that you can't be confident. Try try to be extroverted; just be yourself. I believe that a good relationship will happen, but if you're looking, you tend to pass over a lot of good opportunities and chances. I find that a good balance for an introverted person would be an extroverted person, and vice versa. Funny how it works out. Those relationships tend to last longer, but you wouldn't be able to tell at first glance since they aren't like two people who find someone that they automatically "know" is perfect and get bubbly and giddy whenever they're around them. You usually get bored with the sameness.

[Nenkitsune]

haha yeah, i know what you mean. that's why i decided not to look for a girlfriend till my 280z is a bit further along than it is now. at my core i'm pretty introverted, but i do have a somewhat extroverted side that comes out every once in a while.

[ChibiMenos]

So here's a dating-related question for you guys... not the usual sort for this thread, though, since I already am dating someone. I think it's more a problem with me than anything else, but maybe someone will have some advice to share?

There's kind of two parts to it...

First, he makes me really happy. Besides being a complete match in personality (in the good way, not in the "we're way too similar to get along" way), which makes doing anything together tons of fun, he'll go out of his way to do little stuff that he knows will make me happy. (For instance, I have the unusual hobby of collecting My Little Ponies... please don't laugh... and he actually makes an effort to remember their names and such. And he's started coming to my Welsh singing class on Thursday nights. ...It's really hard to come up with specific examples, but you get the idea.) But, and I think this might be because I've always had some self-esteem issues, I never feel as if I'm making him happy. It's not that he seems unhappy or anything... but I still end up feeling kind of selfish.

The second part (which doesn't help at all with the first) is that lately it seems like all he wants to do is play World of Warcraft. Which is fine; I enjoy it too. But it seems like most of the time that's all he wants to do with me. He already does stuff with his guild three nights a week, and then we've got our Dungeons and Dragons game on Friday nights. So that leaves very little time for me to begin with (I don't count four hours rolling dice in a crowded room as spending time with me, since we both tend to get really caught up in the game) and running around killing monsters online isn't exactly how I like to spend my time with him. Especially since when we play WoW, we're both at home, not together. I've tried telling him that I'd like to spend more time -alone- with him, -in person-, and I guess I'll see how that goes... it was really hard to figure out how to say it without coming across as clingy or needy. Which I try not to be, and I think I do a pretty good job. I'm not sure how to get him to understand, though, if it turns out just telling him wasn't enough. :/

I guess sometimes it just feels like we're back to being just friends again, albeit much more affectionate...

[King Lycan]

wow i wish my GF would play Guild Wars with me

well if my gf told me she wants to spend more time alone i would try to please her. but i think he thinks that going to your Welsh Singing classes as spending time with you. but i dont think your selfish at all u didnt ask him to go to any of ur Welsh singing classes rite XD well ur bf might be addicted to MMO's

P.S. im ambivert

[ChibiMenos]

Originally Posted by King of Lycans

well if my gf told me she wants to spend more time alone i would try to please her. but i think he thinks that going to your Welsh Singing classes as spending time with you.

Hmm... I hadn't thought about it that way, but it makes sense. I did ask him to come the first time because we were short on guys that week (there's already twice as many girls), but since he said afterwards that he didn't really like singing, I told him it was fine if he didn't want to come with me anymore. But he still insisted on going every week.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by ChibiMenos

...

While I don't know him, if I were to take a guess, he probably just doesn't realize, so letting him know how you feel is certainly the right approach.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Archontic

The funny thing is, Nen, that it seems like more girls are attracted to you the less you try to attract them. I always managed to get fangirls every time I started dating someone, it's so illogical. If you don't try to stress yourself into something, the odds are that you'll find it easier anyways. Some girls like the strong silent type, and others like the extroverted and aggressive type. However, most people are a little put off by people who fumble around.

When you're actually dating someone girls may come onto you more easily because it's something of a female thing. The explanation one of my female friends offered me was that it sort of throws a spotlight on the guy because if another girl is with him, then it must mean that he's OK. There may also be a bit of human nature involved. That is, people tend to want something more when they know they can't have it.

But I agree overall, relationships tend to find you when you're not looking. That's always been my experience, and it's the advice I give to people who put so much effort into dating and can't seem to find anyone. They're likely trying too hard, and perhaps they're overlooking a lot of potentially good relationships. However, I don't give that advice to people who want to be in a relationship but don't put the effort in. If you don't speak to anyone at all and you barely leave your room (and that's not a criticism; I've had plenty of days like that myself) then you're simply not going to have any encounters. You want to at least make connections and be able to form relationships with people. Those relationships can either be jumped up to dating, or they may lead to relationships with other people who may be candidates (again, that was an experience of mine).

I suppose the best advice is the same general rule that applies to all life: always be in moderation. Be open and perhaps even work toward a relationship, but don't desire it too strongly.

Originally Posted by ChibiMenos

First, he makes me really happy. Besides being a complete match in personality (in the good way, not in the "we're way too similar to get along" way), which makes doing anything together tons of fun, he'll go out of his way to do little stuff that he knows will make me happy. (For instance, I have the unusual hobby of collecting My Little Ponies... please don't laugh... and he actually makes an effort to remember their names and such. And he's started coming to my Welsh singing class on Thursday nights. ...It's really hard to come up with specific examples, but you get the idea.) But, and I think this might be because I've always had some self-esteem issues, I never feel as if I'm making him happy. It's not that he seems unhappy or anything... but I still end up feeling kind of selfish.

You don't need to feel selfish. There are two parts to this. First, doing something nice for someone and seeing that it made them happy is a pleasure in itself. It's even more important if you're able to make a difference to the person who matters most to you. The second part comes with understanding part of the first: you have to let others do nice things for you, at least every now and then. That was the advice given to me by my mother, and I'm glad she said it. I often try to do everything so that my girlfriend won't be inconvenienced, but she always wants to help anyway. I understand the importance of allowing others to help you, so I often make an effort to let her do something to help (usually I'll try to make sure it's something easy, but don't tell her that ).

It's important because many people don't understand that. Almost all of us have the value of doing nice things for others, but for many of us that value supercedes the value of allowing others to do nice things for us. The two are not opposites, but many people would believe it to be so. After all, if someone is doing something on your behalf when you could have done it yourself and saved them the time, didn't you just fail at doing something nice for them (in a sense)? It's not always easy to distinguish when it's appropriate. The games that people play don't help, either (false offering to aid, and then becoming angry when they perceived the polite thing to do as rejecting that aid).

So this sort of leads into the second part of your post:

The second part (which doesn't help at all with the first) is that lately it seems like all he wants to do is play World of Warcraft. Which is fine; I enjoy it too. But it seems like most of the time that's all he wants to do with me. He already does stuff with his guild three nights a week, and then we've got our Dungeons and Dragons game on Friday nights. So that leaves very little time for me to begin with (I don't count four hours rolling dice in a crowded room as spending time with me, since we both tend to get really caught up in the game) and running around killing monsters online isn't exactly how I like to spend my time with him. Especially since when we play WoW, we're both at home, not together. I've tried telling him that I'd like to spend more time -alone- with him, -in person-, and I guess I'll see how that goes... it was really hard to figure out how to say it without coming across as clingy or needy. Which I try not to be, and I think I do a pretty good job. I'm not sure how to get him to understand, though, if it turns out just telling him wasn't enough. :/

I guess sometimes it just feels like we're back to being just friends again, albeit much more affectionate...

I think it's very good of you to be giving this a lot of thought. Part of the reason I broke things off with the first girl I dated was because I felt that we were really just friends, and I wasn't getting feelings of affection or true caring from her. In your case you still seem to be feeling affection, so you're not lost.

I have a bias against MMORPGs because I feel that they consume your life. If he's heavily playing WoW, it could be because he's stressed and is relying heavily on it to relieve stress. It could be that something big is going on there. Another possibility is that he's bored. Examine those angles (and a few others) and see if you can find the source of what's causing him to play more often. You don't want to come off as a control freak, but at the same time you need to respect your own feelings as well and make them known. If you told him once before, then tell him again. Hopefully he'd be open-minded enough to consider it, and he could also give feedback to you and let you know if you are really being clingy or not.

If you want to try a more subtle approach, do something new with him. My girlfriend and I tend to be busy, so I occasionally ask that we try new restaurants together or check out new shopping areas. When she's a bit more free we plan to visit an aquarium nearby. These aren't things I'd normally do and admittedly I don't have a huge fascination with any of them, but it's a nice excuse to get out of the house, spend some alone time together, and to further bond through new experiences. You know what I mean?

I can't tell you whether you're being clingy or not, because I am obviously not there to see how things are going. It sounds like you are very respectful of his alone time (which is important!). I'd just advise you to not put your own feelings on the back shelf. Relationships are hard work because we need to work together, negotiating so that both parties are satisfied. If you can make changes on your end to accommodate him, great - you've arguably conquered the hardest part of being a good partner in a relationship. But you need to be able to be up front about your feelings. If something is bothering you, think about it for a bit on your end to ensure that it's not just you, and then discuss it with him.

[King Lycan]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

I have a bias against MMORPGs because I feel that they consume your life.

This might be the wrong thread to argue over this but i dont think MMORPG's concume your life because i have bean playing guild wars for about 25 months and i have 2.5k hours on it i go to parties alot of parties i have a girlfriend, i go out to movies all the i also have friends in school who play 2 times more then i do and they still have a "Life" I think it all comes down to time mangament, race , location and enviorment

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by King of Lycans

This might be the wrong thread to argue over this but i dont think MMORPG's concume your life because i have bean playing guild wars for about 25 months and i have 2.5k hours on it i go to parties alot of parties i have a girlfriend, i go out to movies all the i also have friends in school who play 2 times more then i do and they still have a "Life" I think it all comes down to time mangament, race , location and enviorment

I don't know - it sounds to me like you're trying to justify yourself to me by saying that you go to parties and have a girlfriend.

That was an unfair statement to make, I'll admit. I think MMORPGs are geared toward sucking people into a second life of sorts. I played Ultima Online for ~3 years, and my experience with it was pretty much as I stated. The more time you spend in the game, the better your character is. It's the same as any other game except for the fact that MMORPGs tend to be a bit more immersive (although compared with UO and what I know of Everquest, WoW is rather linear and much less immersive). So if you're not putting the time in, you can do much less. In addition, there are other people around, and the world is changing in its own ways. If you're not there, you're missing it and you're becoming an outsider. Everyone wants to be involved and to have power that everyone else can respect. The social factor, the fact that the game is going even when you're not logged in, and the fact that there's no end to the game are probably the greatest encouragers of having people spend copious amounts of time in the game.

Any time spent in the game is time not spent on other things. When I say it's a life-eater, I don't mean that you'll have "no life" in the social sense. I mean that large amounts of your time that could have gone into new hobbies or experiences was spent on a single game. And I'm not against games - I've played plenty. But the only game I've spent well over 100 hours on was Ultima Online. I'm not proud of that.

There are people who are completely not impacted by those aspects, of course. In my opinion they're in the minority, but they exist. And good for them - I wish I could play MMORPGs in a non-obsessive manner, like most other games. I can't, and the impression I got from my fellow players was that they couldn't, either. I'll avoid those games like the plague, and I generally recommend others to stay away from them as well.

[Astrana]

I am madly in love with a girl, my heart tells me she is the one. When I am not with her, I think about her all day and dream about her all night. When I go on dates with her, I can't feel like clicking with her... This sucks...

[King Lycan]

Tell her how U feel thats what i do since you go on dates she WONT freak out

[Vestus]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

I don't know - it sounds to me like you're trying to justify yourself to me by saying that you go to parties and have a girlfriend.

That was an unfair statement to make, I'll admit. I think MMORPGs are geared toward sucking people into a second life of sorts. I played Ultima Online for ~3 years, and my experience with it was pretty much as I stated. The more time you spend in the game, the better your character is. It's the same as any other game except for the fact that MMORPGs tend to be a bit more immersive (although compared with UO and what I know of Everquest, WoW is rather linear and much less immersive). So if you're not putting the time in, you can do much less. In addition, there are other people around, and the world is changing in its own ways. If you're not there, you're missing it and you're becoming an outsider. Everyone wants to be involved and to have power that everyone else can respect. The social factor, the fact that the game is going even when you're not logged in, and the fact that there's no end to the game are probably the greatest encouragers of having people spend copious amounts of time in the game.

Any time spent in the game is time not spent on other things. When I say it's a life-eater, I don't mean that you'll have "no life" in the social sense. I mean that large amounts of your time that could have gone into new hobbies or experiences was spent on a single game. And I'm not against games - I've played plenty. But the only game I've spent well over 100 hours on was Ultima Online. I'm not proud of that.

There are people who are completely not impacted by those aspects, of course. In my opinion they're in the minority, but they exist. And good for them - I wish I could play MMORPGs in a non-obsessive manner, like most other games. I can't, and the impression I got from my fellow players was that they couldn't, either. I'll avoid those games like the plague, and I generally recommend others to stay away from them as well.

I have to agree with Ledgem here. The number one reason why I hate MMORPG's is that a close friend of mine became a total jerk off. He had a great girlfriend and was basically a good guy. He started playing WoW and got addicted. Guess what happened? His grades dropped, he became more violent, and he started to hit his girlfriend (they broke up, thank god). Now, I'm not sure if MMORPG's changes a person negatively, but since me and my best friend quit WoW, we've been more peaceful and serene. From my experiences, there has to be a negative linear relationship between behavior and an addiction to MMORPG's. Keyword here, addiction.

That's not to say that it owns your soul.

[Astrana]

Originally Posted by Cipher7

Guys guys... it's the fact that you PAY TO PLAY. I never buy a game that I have to continuously pay for. One time fee is only what a game is worth. You become a dick because you want to go home and play while everyone else seems to be an obstacle.

O yah... free games is really up to your control. I dropped so many because of the fact that I got bored. Good for me eh?

Originally Posted by King of Lycans

Tell her how U feel thats what i do since you go on dates she WONT freak out

Been there done that 5 years ago, didn't go well.
we are going on dates now, but I can not feel any vibe from her at all.
it's better let things goes naturally then force it, it could get really awkward

[Synria_]

Hah. I was just reading the last 3 pages until I hit my own post and realized how idiotic my post was. My apologies........

I don't know, I just read about WoW and people going anal.... so....

Lesson learned: Read the previous posts first.