[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru - Ep. 7 Requiem of the golden witch

[Kamel]

Originally Posted by Kylon99

As with the Author Theory, what happens in the stories are separate from what happens in Rokkenjima Prime. It may very well be that there was nobody called 'Yasu' and she is a fictional character meant to be detected in EP1-4.

But the reasons for the fiction aren't to be dismissed, though. We are led to believe that someone wrote EP1-2 in order to expose the truth and EP3 and onwards to further expose the truth... the fiction itself has to be consistent, logical and worthwhile still.



...

You know sure its posible but if we go there that would mean its all pointless, if difrences go that deep not only do we know nothing about reality but fictions we have are worthless as a tool to learn anything at all about said reality. All the facts could be compresed in to one line of text: There was a Family, those are their names the all died in those two days. Everything else would mean the holes in the story are to big, as anything concerining the cause of the tragedy shown in the episodes is one way a nother connected to yasu in one of her alters, author theory that strong means not that rokenjima prime was diferent but inconsequencial becuase we lack the data to say anything about it.

Then again maybe that was your point if that is the case sorry for a wall of text written for no good reason

[Kylon99]

Oh, no, you're right. There's certainly a point at which the Author Theory can make the whole story become useless. i.e. if in the real world there really was never an Ushiromiya family... and there isn't even a Rokkenjima island to begin with and it was all... hey wait.. that's us.

But yah, I don't really think Yasu doesn't exist. But it's just always good to question what is real and what the author is trying to show us... either Yasu for EP1-2... and Hachijou in EP5-6... maybe 3-4 if she REALLY wrote those. (And with Hachijou it's about wondering what evil things she's trying to make us think.)

[KazePT]

Well I'm kinda trowing a shot in the dark here (well... Almost everyone is xD)

The last part of EP 7, the thing that was showed randomly, couldn't imply even more heavily that yasu is not the culprit?
Not only because of the show with Kyrie/Rudolf -

Battler seemed to remember that he had a crush on Shannon and that didn't stop the murders from happening. (Which is, in a way, similar to Higurashi -

Spoiler for Higurashi- not a big thing -.-':

they started to prevent some disasters from happening because they started to "remember" what happened in previous "worlds"

)

I started to read the first episode again (Damn Ryukishi! I just began to read it and I see a major hint with kanon =.=) and George is heavily ridiculed. He has some major self-esteem issues. Some people already talked about this theory, but George can easily be appointed has the real culprit right? He's 23 years old, the "girl" that he loves was still in love with his tall-out going-"comeback" cousin, his mother says that he's undependable/not charming like Battler to attract girls , and he probably wanted money too - He worked with Hideyoshi, so he must have known about the pinch that they were in. (There are plenty of theories about George being the culprit so I won't prolongate myself)

I wouldn't mind to see him as the real culprit.

But meh, Its kinda tiresome to think that a "concrete" answer for the mysteries will, probably, never come.

PS: Ups! I think that people were talking about this on the speculations thread =.=!!!! I posted this here because I thought about it after ep. 7.

[kamuinoyume]

I don't see how people can accuse George of being the culprit!? I mean, come one man. Let's drop Battler as a potential alibi, in spite of the obscene amount of red, but what about Jessica? And Maria? They're always with George and Battler! I know I had my: "Battler is really the culprit" theory at one time, but now it just seams plain ridiculous. Because the 4 cousins are almost always together! How can you accuse one of them of being the culprit without questioning all of them?

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by kamuinoyume

I don't see how people can accuse George of being the culprit!? I mean, come one man. Let's drop Battler as a potential alibi, in spite of the obscene amount of red, but what about Jessica? And Maria? They're always with George and Battler! I know I had my: "Battler is really the culprit" theory at one time, but now it just seams plain ridiculous. Because the 4 cousins are almost always together! How can you accuse one of them of being the culprit without questioning all of them?

Yeah that's totally a solid alibi.

No it's actually really easy because when Battler's half asleep he can't tell Beatrice's letters from a tube of toothpaste.

[kamuinoyume]

I said ignoring Battler. What about Jessica and Maria?

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by kamuinoyume

I said ignoring Battler. What about Jessica and Maria?

They share a separate room from George and Battler. That's stated in episodes 1 and 2.

[kamuinoyume]

Yes, but in almost all of the ep (except for 5), they slept in the same room.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by kamuinoyume

Yes, but in almost all of the ep (except for 5), they slept in the same room.

No they really didn't. They hung out in the same room. And they give Maria permission to enter their room any time she wanted, but I don't see anything saying they fell asleep in the same room.

[kamuinoyume]

Originally Posted by Judoh

No they really didn't. They hung out in the same room. And they give Maria permission to enter their room any time she wanted, but I don't see anything saying they fell asleep in the same room.

Really? What about the fact that Battler wakes up and sees Rosa leave the cousins room in the second game, after grabbing Maria's handbag. Maria wakes up and yells after Rosa for doing so, and that wakes George and Jessica as well. Please tell me how Jessica got from the mansion to the Guest-house in such a short time if she slept in her room?

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by kamuinoyume

Really? What about the fact that Battler wakes up and sees Rosa leave the cousins room in the second game, after grabbing Maria's handbag.

I don't really have a good answer for this one. She could have left the bag there. Or maybe she slept in Battler's and George's room and Jessica didn't.

Maria wakes up and yells after Rosa for doing so, and that wakes George and Jessica as well.

Like I said she was given permission to enter George and Battler's room.

Please tell me how Jessica got from the mansion to the Guest-house in such a short time if she slept in her room?

She didn't. Both of them had rooms prepared in the guesthouse. And all of the cousins spent the night at the guesthouse. Jessica even comments that she wishes her bedroom were there instead of the mansion.

[kamuinoyume]

Originally Posted by Judoh

I don't really have a good answer for this one. She could have left the bag there. Or maybe she slept in Battler's and George's room and Jessica didn't.

Yes, Jessica does want a room in the guesthaouse, but no where in the game does it specify that Natsuhi arranged a room for her there, unlike the one of George and Battler (which ends up being called the Cousin's Room, because all the cousins spent their time there). Neither Jessica, nor anyone else for the matter, makes no reference to such a room.

Originally Posted by Judoh

Like I said she was given permission to enter George and Battler's room.

I have a counter for this: Ep 1: Rosa was killed on the first twilight, by all means, she never left the mansion. Maria was taken back to the cousin's room by George and Battler, and left to sleep there: She never left the room until morning.

Originally Posted by Judoh

Both of them had rooms prepared in the guesthouse. Jessica even comments that she wishes her bedroom were there instead of the mansion.

Oh, for pity's sakes, it's not only the second game when this happens, that's just the scene I remember most clearly. But if you want more: Ep 5: Battler returns at 3 but doesn't turn on the lights thinking that his cousins are asleep (I do remember his thinking that he doesn't want to wake up George, Jessica and Maria) and the rest are still a little fogy, but I might just go back to the game and check the rest tomorrow.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by kamuinoyume

Yes, Jessica does want a room in the guesthaouse, but no where in the game does it specify that Natsuhi arranged a room for her there, unlike the one of George and Battler (which ends up being called the Cousin's Room, because all the cousins spent their time there). Neither Jessica, nor anyone else for the matter, makes no reference to such a room.

If George and Battler have their own two person room it follows that everyone else would have a separate room as well. This isn't that complicated. In fact Maria probably had her room arranged with Rosa.

I have a counter for this: Ep 1: Rosa was killed on the first twilight, by all means, she never left the mansion. Maria was taken back to the cousin's room by George and Battler, and left to sleep there: She never left the room until morning.

Yeah she escorts them to the door doesn't she? So what? It happens differently in episode 2.

It's actually good that you brought this up because this scene makes it pretty clear that it wasn't anyone's plan for Maria to sleep there. They carried her there because they were asked to. Moreover she slept like a log and never woke up even at the the times Rosa entered the room. Your point about Maria is made moot.

Oh, for pity's sakes, it's not only the second game when this happens, that's just the scene I remember most clearly. But if you want more: Ep 5: Battler returns at 3 but doesn't turn on the lights thinking that his cousins are asleep (I do remember his thinking that he doesn't want to wake up George, Jessica and Maria) and the rest are still a little fogy, but I might just go back to the game and check the rest tomorrow.

Well to be fair this whole scene is weird. Rosa has never been stated to sleep in this room before this episode. And Lambda's murders were also stated to be lacking.

anyway this discussion is getting a bit circular. I'm about done.

[kamuinoyume]

Originally Posted by Judoh

If George and Battler have their own two person room it follows that everyone else would have a separate room as well. This isn't that complicated. In fact Maria probably had her room arranged with Rosa.

Yes, Maria was supposed to sleep in the same room as Rosa, that was specified by Gohda (I think) in ep 1.

Originally Posted by Judoh

Yeah she escorts them to the door doesn't she? So what? It happens differently in episode 2.

It's actually good that you brought this up because this scene makes it pretty clear that it wasn't anyone's plan for Maria to sleep there. They carried her there because they were asked to. Moreover she slept like a log and never woke up even at the the times Rosa entered the room. Your point about Maria is made moot.

And ep 2: I love this one, since when Genji came to wake Rosa up the next day, Maria was not with her, in fact, I mentioned above that Rosa had to go to Battler and George's room to get the envelop, and I remember Maria waking George and Jessica, with her cries of distress. Now, unless Jessica has Erika level hearing(when with the Detective Authority thing activated), I don't see how Maria could have woken her up.

Originally Posted by Judoh

Well to be fair this whole scene is weird. Rosa has never been stated to sleep in this room before this episode. And Lambda's murders were also stated to be lacking.

Really? By whom? By Bern who decided it was a good thing to end the episode on the first day, while there was an interval of 24 hours of events left? Cause if it is so, I'm inclined to not believe it.

[AuraTwilight]

This discussion is pointless.

1) All the cousins go to sleep.

2) George sneaks out and kills people.

3) Comes back and goes back to sleep. The cousins wake up in the morning, none the wiser that George had ever disappeared.

There. A solid start for George being the culprit if you really give a shit.

[kamuinoyume]

Please, that can be applied to every freaking character in the game! And only for the first twilight! Try reasoning George as the culprit for the second twilight of the first game! His alibi is solid.

[Judoh]

I apparently agree that George carried Maria to the guesthouse and stated it was a moot point for various reasons so I don't know why you're arguing this again.

Originally Posted by kamuinoyume

And ep 2: I love this one, since when Genji came to wake Rosa up the next day,

But I'll humor it. Genji caught Rosa at the front door. That's why Maria isn't shown.

Originally Posted by kamuinoyume

Now, unless Jessica has Erika level hearing(when with the Detective Authority thing activated), I don't see how Maria could have woken her up.

Easy. Exit room, Knock Knock, Opens door. "WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP!!"

Originally Posted by kamuinoyume

Really? By whom? By Bern who decided it was a good thing to end the episode on the first day, while there was an interval of 24 hours of events left? Cause if it is so, I'm inclined to not believe it.

• There are 5 apparent victims instead of 6.
• They're not found in the same place like other episodes.
• The method of murder was a neck wound.
• It wasn't a closed room murder

Doesn't matter who said it they're pretty lacking compared to Beato's.

[kamuinoyume]

I'll humor you for the first twilight, but not the second! Or any of the others that followed.

As Will stated, I will not accept a crime without the Heart! And George has no solid motive to murder his family! Not to mention he has a solid alibi for the second, up until ninth twilight for the first game, and don't get me started on the second game.

The third game is probably the only one where I'll give in and admit it is possible to construct a theory where George was the culprit, but that still doesn't explain the why? Just cause he said he'd be willing to sacrifice his family for Shannon? Seriously, because i remember him saying that as Head of the family it was his duty to protect the other members after that, which is why he fought Gaap, to avenge his family. Now tell me why would George kill them?

[Judoh]

Episode 2 is actually my favorite to reason about. George has no alibi during the time after Kumasawa and Nanjo disappeared when the illusion of their death was put forward. He also has no alibi during the 5th 6th and 7th twilights. The stomach is stated not to be a particularly fatal wound in the TIPS.

Moreover he has several motives if you are willing to look for them. Revenge, jealousy, greed, power, love, you can even include Battler's sin as it is stated in episode 7 if you want to.

But really it was stated in episode 5 that the murders are not that important. All I need is to prove he is capable of it. The murders of the message bottles can be applied to Yasu as she is probably scapegoating for the real culprit.

[rogerpepitone]

`After all that excitement the previous night, there was no way anyone was going to wake up soon.
George-aniki, Jessica and I were snoring loudly on the bed in the cousins' room.

But Maria, who didn't join in, and who had gone straight to bed the previous night, suddenly and completely opened her eyes.
;「…………………………………。」
　寝惚け眼を擦りながら見渡せば、３人のいとこたちが累々と高いびき。

　…真里亞はしばらくの間、どうしたものかと思案しなければならなかった。
　それから、自分が母親と一緒でないことに気付いて急に心細くなる。
`"....................."
As she rubbed her sleepy eyes and looked around, the loud snoring coming from the three cousins continued.

...For a while, Maria had to think about what had happened.
After that, she realized that her mother was not with her and quickly got lonely.
;　真里亞は、自分たち親子が泊まることになっていた部屋へ行こうと、いとこ部屋を出て行く。
　熟睡する３人などお構いなしに、バタンと大きな音を立てて。

　その音に反応して、戦人はむにゃむにゃと寝返りを打ったが、目を覚ますほどではなかった。
`Maria left the cousins' room, trying to head to the room that had been arranged for her and her mother.
Paying no heed to the three who were sleeping soundly, she made a loud banging sound.

All four cousins slept in the same room.

And for the "Jessica would rather have a room in the guesthouse" refers to the 364 days of the year that aren't family conferences.