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Dann of Thursday · 2008-04-18, 14:50

Suzaku had been suspicious of Lelouch possibly being Zero since Zero mentioned knowing that he had killed his father. You'd have to be suspicious after such a thing and I'm not sure if Lelouch cared.

Makoto_Must_DIE · 2008-04-18, 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

Suzaku had been suspicious of Lelouch possibly being Zero since Zero mentioned knowing that he had killed his father. You'd have to be suspicious after such a thing and I'm not sure if Lelouch cared.

Then Lelouch is really careLESS.

(Bad joke, I know.)

Dann of Thursday · 2008-04-18, 15:02

I think he simply didn't really care.

Aquaman OS · 2008-04-18, 15:07

He thought Suzaku would be joining him after that anyway so he probably didn't care. He'd probably have told him who he was anyway if he did.

Dann of Thursday · 2008-04-18, 15:11

I think he had planned on telling him earlier when it was still an option to Lelouch for him to become Nunnally's knight.

SoldierOfDarkness · 2008-04-18, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makoto_Must_DIE

Then Lelouch is really careLESS.

(Bad joke, I know.)

Bad jokes like that lead to massacres...

Sol Falling · 2008-04-18, 20:09

hey everybody, I was about to jump in here exclaiming about just how ridiculous this thread was, with everybody taking the 'fact' that Suzaku is somebody who is a hypocrite, delusional, stupid, self-interested, arrogant, irrational, not sincerely nice, et cetera for granted, and how despite the rules of this thread stating specifically that there should be no character bashing, pretty much every other post (and probably even more than that) was basically an expression of hate or accusing him of something...

but, well, the last few posts weren't specifically like that, so my anger felt a bit out of place. Still, my point still stands, as it's a pretty accurate description of at least the past 18 pages.

And anyway, I just gotta say, I think Suzaku is pretty cool. I thought he was okay in the beginning, disliked him a little for his rant in episode 13, but ever since then I've always thought he was pretty cool. Hypocrisy, murdering of his father, rage and vengeance, whatever--Suzaku is still a nice guy, a respectable guy, someone with his own strengths whom you can look up to. Seriously. Stop judging him.

Anyway, as several people noted, Picture Book 23.95 is great for some insight into Suzaku's character. Sound Episode 21.534 (here) also provides some great insights into Suzaku's motivations during episodes 24&25 and beyond.

Also, y'know, I seriously wonder how many of you actually paid attention to what Suzaku said in those climactic moments in the cave? Suzaku isn't just bullshitting along, living his life in a deluded world. He knows everything, and he sees everything, and he understands it all. Suzaku has his own convictions and his own beliefs, and they extend further than a mere reaction or reinforcement of his murder of his father. Suzaku isn't trying to redeem himself for the 'sin' of killing his father, and neither is he trying to delude himself into thinking that what he did then was right. Rather, Suzaku learned. By episode 19, Suzaku had accepted what he had done, and was applying the experience he had to how he should move forward. Here you go. The script for the last moments of the cave in season one:

L: That's right! Nunally has been abducted! Suzaku, can we have a truce for now? I hope that you would help me save Nunally. There's nothing that we can't do together!
S: How naive. You should have cooperated with Euphie! If you had cooperated with Euphie, the world...
L: That's all in the past! They are already over.
S: The past?!
L: Didn't you kill your father? You can regret as much as you want afterwards!
(here's where it gets good...!)
S: No, you won't do that!
L: What?
S: You will...betray the world right till the very, very end. The world has betrayed you too! Your wishes must not be granted!
L: Idiot! The world does not revolve only around ideals! ('k, now it gets boring again...) Come, shoot me if you intend to do so! I have liquid sakuradite with me! It will explode if my heart stops beating. It'll be the end for you guys too!
S: Bastard!
L: I propose a trade with you. Who is the one who told you about Geass? What did that person do to Nunally?!
(and now it gets good again...)
S: Things from now on have nothing to do with you! Your existance is a mistake! You are someone that doesn't belong in the world! I will save Nunally...!
(and now, of course, the cliffhanger...)
L: SUZAKU!
S: LELOUCH!

So there. There you go. Six lines in there, they're there to tell you what Suzaku is really about. So tell me, if any of you, any of you, really know who Suzaku is. What do those lines mean?

KrimzonStriker · 2008-04-18, 20:18

That he cared more about revenge for Euphie instead of saving Nunnally? Lelouch was right, it was in the past, they didn't have time for this. If Suzaku chooses the dead over the living then he's still allowing himself to be ruled by the past, just instead of taking it out on himself like with his father he's taking it out on Lelouch and Nunnally was the one who ultimately paid for it. What an ass.

Aquaman OS · 2008-04-18, 20:24

He did want to save Nunally. Just not with Lelouch. Suzaku thinks Nunally will be in danger as long as she is with Lelouch. After all Lelouch already used and then killed one sibling in his mad desire to crush his father and rule the world. What's to say he wouldn't do it to another?

Of course we know thats not the case, but Suzaku doesn't.

KrimzonStriker · 2008-04-18, 20:26

I don't remember him making any pick me ups for the blind crippled girl while he dragged Lelouch before the Emperor, did you?

Aquaman OS · 2008-04-18, 20:33

We don't know what happened between him taking down Lelouch in the cave and going before the emperor. We know that Nunally was brought to mainland Britannia so he might have gotten word that she was safely delivered.

KrimzonStriker · 2008-04-18, 20:36

And he might not have given a damn while he was focused on wrestling down Lelouch for the trip to the mainland. Not like anyone else could handle him considering Lelouch's Geass

Aquaman OS · 2008-04-18, 20:39

And he might have given a damn too. We don't know because we didn't see it.

KrimzonStriker · 2008-04-18, 20:41

And so I'll call what I did see, thank you very much

Aquaman OS · 2008-04-18, 20:45

Which is nothing because we didn't see anything.

Meh why do I even bother? It's not like anyones opinions will change.

bbduece · 2008-04-18, 20:49

Lack of loyalty will get him kill! (eventually?)

Eliarine · 2008-04-18, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

That he cared more about revenge for Euphie instead of saving Nunnally? Lelouch was right, it was in the past, they didn't have time for this. If Suzaku chooses the dead over the living then he's still allowing himself to be ruled by the past, just instead of taking it out on himself like with his father he's taking it out on Lelouch and Nunnally was the one who ultimately paid for it. What an ass.

Like Aquaman already stated, Suzaku just didn't want to team up with Lelouch to save Nunally, which was understandable given the circumstances. Also, I personally find it a bit much to categorize something so dramatic as "past" when it only happened a mere few hours ago.

We don't know yet what happened between the cave scene and the following one, so you can't really assume anything. I think if Suzaku did not care about Nunally he wouldn't be screaming about her right before shooting Lelouch.

dom33 · 2008-04-18, 21:08

you've all forgotten to mention how important Lelouch is to nunnaly or each other, if you kill one you essentialy kill the other.

@ks have you forgotten that lelouch whant's to avenge his mother ,destroy brittania and kill his father? lelouch is letting the past control him almost as much as suzaku lets it. though he gave up everything he was working for to save nunnaly thus putting the present over the past.(though I agree with you on the suzaku is an ass thing like 90% of this forum)

@aquaman we usually base things like this on things we see not what we don't see or might see later.

KrimzonStriker · 2008-04-18, 21:21

No I didn't forget dom but as you just said he gave up avenging his mother and destroying Britannia when he heard his sister was in danger didn't he? So in this instance where Suzaku allowed himself to be ruled by the past unlike with Lelouch. Now whose the stronger of the two do you think?

dom33 · 2008-04-18, 21:25

tch er

I was saying lelouch was stronger than suzaku! can't you let the past go?

2008-04-18, 14:50	Link #361
Dann of Thursday WHERE'S...MY...COW???? Join Date: Dec 2007 Age: 33	Suzaku had been suspicious of Lelouch possibly being Zero since Zero mentioned knowing that he had killed his father. You'd have to be suspicious after such a thing and I'm not sure if Lelouch cared. __________________ By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes. "Nearly all men can stand adversity, if you want to test a man's character give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

2008-04-18, 15:02	Link #363
Dann of Thursday WHERE'S...MY...COW???? Join Date: Dec 2007 Age: 33	I think he simply didn't really care. __________________ By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes. "Nearly all men can stand adversity, if you want to test a man's character give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

2008-04-18, 15:11	Link #365
Dann of Thursday WHERE'S...MY...COW???? Join Date: Dec 2007 Age: 33	I think he had planned on telling him earlier when it was still an option to Lelouch for him to become Nunnally's knight. __________________ By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes. "Nearly all men can stand adversity, if you want to test a man's character give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

2008-04-18, 21:08	Link #378
dom33 Pat:TAISAAAAA! Join Date: Dec 2005	you've all forgotten to mention how important Lelouch is to nunnaly or each other, if you kill one you essentialy kill the other. @ks have you forgotten that lelouch whant's to avenge his mother ,destroy brittania and kill his father? lelouch is letting the past control him almost as much as suzaku lets it. though he gave up everything he was working for to save nunnaly thus putting the present over the past.(though I agree with you on the suzaku is an ass thing like 90% of this forum) @aquaman we usually base things like this on things we see not what we don't see or might see later. __________________ d33:"the only ones allowed to bash should be those who are prepared to be bashed!" Onizuka-GTO:yeah, great post WD, but also puzzled. if it's a race you see, okay then. but at the moment it's a one man race, with Suzuku doing timed laps against his personal best.... WhiteWings:To this day I don't know what the insanity behind the decision to release the first GSD ending. My God that was without a doubt the worst ending I had ever seen in my life in a anime series. Blizzer: He already has special powers called super pheromone powers which makes him irresistable to Sekirei's in heat.

2008-04-18, 21:25	Link #380
dom33 Pat:TAISAAAAA! Join Date: Dec 2005	tch er I was saying lelouch was stronger than suzaku! can't you let the past go? __________________ d33:"the only ones allowed to bash should be those who are prepared to be bashed!" Onizuka-GTO:yeah, great post WD, but also puzzled. if it's a race you see, okay then. but at the moment it's a one man race, with Suzuku doing timed laps against his personal best.... WhiteWings:To this day I don't know what the insanity behind the decision to release the first GSD ending. My God that was without a doubt the worst ending I had ever seen in my life in a anime series. Blizzer: He already has special powers called super pheromone powers which makes him irresistable to Sekirei's in heat.

2008-04-18, 15:07	Link #364
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	He thought Suzaku would be joining him after that anyway so he probably didn't care. He'd probably have told him who he was anyway if he did.

2008-04-18, 20:09	Link #367
Sol Falling Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 35	hey everybody, I was about to jump in here exclaiming about just how ridiculous this thread was, with everybody taking the 'fact' that Suzaku is somebody who is a hypocrite, delusional, stupid, self-interested, arrogant, irrational, not sincerely nice, et cetera for granted, and how despite the rules of this thread stating specifically that there should be no character bashing, pretty much every other post (and probably even more than that) was basically an expression of hate or accusing him of something... but, well, the last few posts weren't specifically like that, so my anger felt a bit out of place. Still, my point still stands, as it's a pretty accurate description of at least the past 18 pages. And anyway, I just gotta say, I think Suzaku is pretty cool. I thought he was okay in the beginning, disliked him a little for his rant in episode 13, but ever since then I've always thought he was pretty cool. Hypocrisy, murdering of his father, rage and vengeance, whatever--Suzaku is still a nice guy, a respectable guy, someone with his own strengths whom you can look up to. Seriously. Stop judging him. Anyway, as several people noted, Picture Book 23.95 is great for some insight into Suzaku's character. Sound Episode 21.534 (here) also provides some great insights into Suzaku's motivations during episodes 24&25 and beyond. Also, y'know, I seriously wonder how many of you actually paid attention to what Suzaku said in those climactic moments in the cave? Suzaku isn't just bullshitting along, living his life in a deluded world. He knows everything, and he sees everything, and he understands it all. Suzaku has his own convictions and his own beliefs, and they extend further than a mere reaction or reinforcement of his murder of his father. Suzaku isn't trying to redeem himself for the 'sin' of killing his father, and neither is he trying to delude himself into thinking that what he did then was right. Rather, Suzaku learned. By episode 19, Suzaku had accepted what he had done, and was applying the experience he had to how he should move forward. Here you go. The script for the last moments of the cave in season one: L: That's right! Nunally has been abducted! Suzaku, can we have a truce for now? I hope that you would help me save Nunally. There's nothing that we can't do together! S: How naive. You should have cooperated with Euphie! If you had cooperated with Euphie, the world... L: That's all in the past! They are already over. S: The past?! L: Didn't you kill your father? You can regret as much as you want afterwards! (here's where it gets good...!) S: No, you won't do that! L: What? S: You will...betray the world right till the very, very end. The world has betrayed you too! Your wishes must not be granted! L: Idiot! The world does not revolve only around ideals! ('k, now it gets boring again...) Come, shoot me if you intend to do so! I have liquid sakuradite with me! It will explode if my heart stops beating. It'll be the end for you guys too! S: Bastard! L: I propose a trade with you. Who is the one who told you about Geass? What did that person do to Nunally?! (and now it gets good again...) S: Things from now on have nothing to do with you! Your existance is a mistake! You are someone that doesn't belong in the world! I will save Nunally...! (and now, of course, the cliffhanger...) L: SUZAKU! S: LELOUCH! So there. There you go. Six lines in there, they're there to tell you what Suzaku is really about. So tell me, if any of you, any of you, really know who Suzaku is. What do those lines mean?

2008-04-18, 20:18	Link #368
KrimzonStriker Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	That he cared more about revenge for Euphie instead of saving Nunnally? Lelouch was right, it was in the past, they didn't have time for this. If Suzaku chooses the dead over the living then he's still allowing himself to be ruled by the past, just instead of taking it out on himself like with his father he's taking it out on Lelouch and Nunnally was the one who ultimately paid for it. What an ass.

2008-04-18, 20:24	Link #369
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	He did want to save Nunally. Just not with Lelouch. Suzaku thinks Nunally will be in danger as long as she is with Lelouch. After all Lelouch already used and then killed one sibling in his mad desire to crush his father and rule the world. What's to say he wouldn't do it to another? Of course we know thats not the case, but Suzaku doesn't.

2008-04-18, 20:26	Link #370
KrimzonStriker Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	I don't remember him making any pick me ups for the blind crippled girl while he dragged Lelouch before the Emperor, did you?

2008-04-18, 20:33	Link #371
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	We don't know what happened between him taking down Lelouch in the cave and going before the emperor. We know that Nunally was brought to mainland Britannia so he might have gotten word that she was safely delivered.

2008-04-18, 20:36	Link #372
KrimzonStriker Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	And he might not have given a damn while he was focused on wrestling down Lelouch for the trip to the mainland. Not like anyone else could handle him considering Lelouch's Geass

2008-04-18, 20:39	Link #373
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	And he might have given a damn too. We don't know because we didn't see it.

2008-04-18, 20:41	Link #374
KrimzonStriker Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	And so I'll call what I did see, thank you very much

2008-04-18, 20:45	Link #375
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	Which is nothing because we didn't see anything. Meh why do I even bother? It's not like anyones opinions will change.

2008-04-18, 20:49	Link #376
bbduece Ultimate Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: San Francisco	Lack of loyalty will get him kill! (eventually?)

2008-04-18, 21:21	Link #379
KrimzonStriker Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	No I didn't forget dom but as you just said he gave up avenging his mother and destroying Britannia when he heard his sister was in danger didn't he? So in this instance where Suzaku allowed himself to be ruled by the past unlike with Lelouch. Now whose the stronger of the two do you think?