Higurashi Gou - Anime Episode Discussion Thread (OG/Kai spoilers OK)

[Ayu-ayu]

I was happy to see Satoko's method of Certainty contrasted to Rika's method of Miracles.

The introduction of the mechanics behind the looping starting to effect other people is really interesting as it has some good explanatory power for the couple of times it happened in the original. It seems clear that this is a previously unrevealed detail, much like the sword being so strangely described and explained in Saikoroshi-hen (IIRC) yet never seemed to serve any story purpose back then.

On further thought, perhaps what I said above about the backward order of the arcs is in turn a hint pointing to backward moves later on. We know from the end of Higurashi that at some point Bernkastel managed to go back and prevent Takano's parents from getting killed, delivering essentially a checkmate (or so it seemed to me back then). Perhaps Gou is leading to Satoko becoming LambdaDelta and going back to take control of the Takano piece on the gameboard?

I am not sure that makes sense completely (nor that I fully like that hypothesis), so I'm probably missing some other factor. But we do know from Eyua's first appearance that time doesn't seem to necessarily travel forwards or linearly in the metaworld/sea of fragments.

---

Edit: one more thought...now we see the "finger snap" effect being used, this seems to be the same way Satoko triggered the chandelier, so the earlier question of "how" that trap was set might be relevant after all, though I assumed it was just a bit of authorial handwaving there. I don't know if each finger snap is a marker for when she loops back to, or if it's just a manifestation of the power of Certainty gained from her own insights in how to "play the game". If each snap does represent a death, I am reminded a bit of The Prestige, to name another Nolan film with a similar theme to Satoko's vindictive scheming.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

That's my assumption: since Satoko wants to blindside Rika with fragments that look the same as the original ones, she outright feigned her PTSD to make everyone believe she was being abused by Teppei.

With that in mind, Tataridamashi makes much more sense:
-We only see Teppei early and when Chie "confronts" him. If Teppei is still doting Satoko, then he might be overdoing it and go super aggressive against Chie if Satoko insists having a bad cold.
-Satoko's behaviour was not totally concistent with Tatarigoroshi and the whole deal about baiting Keiichi into her house fully make sense: she tried to deal with Keiichi through L5 Ooishi.
-Ooishi's behaviour and comment are totally justified: since he knows Teppei suddenly turned a new leaf and stayed that way for a while, he realize that claims Teppei was abusing Satoko were not founded, hence why his comment about "Keiichi believing he is doing the right thing, but he wasn't". This would also explain why Ooishi went there himself to confirm his assumption or support Teppei's side of the story.

Honestly, it became quite clear that Satoko deliberately manipulated the fragments as traps for Rika who obviously got baited hard due to the seemly similar context yet abnormally diverging over time.

How do you mean she tried dealing with Keiichi through Ooishi? Or did you mean Teppei?
Though I agree on her baiting Keiichi into her house certainly had one of three reasons:

-Removing him from the scene to either protect him, or prevent him from stopping Ooishi
- Killing Teppei
- Getting killed by Teppei.

That being said, Satoko has become REALLY unlikable and totally disconnected from what it means that someone died by now...

[Jan-Poo]

It is still possible that things didn't go according to Satoko's plan in Tataridamashi. So it is still possible that what we have seen was the actual truth and no form of hallucination, unreliable narrator, is at work.

Satoko might have lured K1 away simply to prevent him from stopping Ooishi as speculated. Or it could be that she had a completely different and more elaborated plan and she only unleashed Ooishi because at that point there was no reason in continuing with that fragment.

The variable that she didn't expect was Teppei showing up, therefore her surprise was genuine, and so was her reaction when she saw him getting killed by K1, since at that point she didn't regard Teppei as an evil person anymore. Teppei's rage can be easily justified even without assuming a L5 crisis considering he is a thug to begin with and K1 had unjustly accused him of abuse and deprived him of his new found reason to live and a chance at redemption.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

But I'm confused with what they'll do with the rest of the limited episodes. They're acting like they still have a lot more. What is happening here? Will they announce a surprise season or something?

I mentioned that earlier but it is somewhat confirmed there will be at least an additional cour for Higurashi Gou as Tokyo MX and other channels listed more episodes but quickly removed them. There were rumors of "Sotsu" as a follow up months ago, which would make sense for them to remove that info since it is technically another series (that and they did the same when Higurashi changed its title to Higurashi Gou). Additionally, the new ED showed up around episode 18, which would be the midpoint of the series if it was produced for 36 episodes.

I'm also a bit confused with the timelines now. The original gang from Kai's ending are still waiting for Satoko in Okinomiya while Satoko is creating new loops with Aeuya? So...which Rika are we following? Is Rika that we follow still the one from the Chandelier-drop? It can't be, right?

It is very likely the Rika we have been following will be another one after Satoko is done with her preparations. As far as it goes, Rika isn't shown being super confused about what's going on so it seems Satoko is currently with the Rikas who failed to find the good end, aka Matsuribayashi.

Originally Posted by Ayu-ayu

I was happy to see Satoko's method of Certainty contrasted to Rika's method of Miracles.

Satoko's situation was so different that you can't really compliment her "methods", moreso that her advantages are plainly broken if they were applied to Rika's situation.
-Satoko knew who is the true culprit, Rika didn't.
-Satoko is aware of the other possible dangers since she went through Rika's Let's play beforehand, while Rika had to turtle through her loops MUCH earlier than Satoko.
-Satoko could review countless loops, while Rika only did "hundred of years of loops", and some of them spanned for multiple years, proved by Himatsubushi.
-Satoko had no time limit whatsoever. Rika was always running on borrowed time and loops kept being shorter on a very unpredictable fashion. Minagoroshi shrunk to a mere 2 weeks periods whereas she usually had a little more than a month.

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

How do you mean she tried dealing with Keiichi through Ooishi? Or did you mean Teppei?

I still believe Keiichi was attacked by Ooishi and due to the blunt trauma and atmosphere and potentially the syndrome, Keiichi believed it was Teppei instead. Granted, Teppei's actions make way more sense now, but it still doesn't really explain why Ooishi had the bat, so I believe Satoko drugged Ooishi with a drink when he came with the child welfare counsellor then Ooishi just went wild there, gravely injuring Keiichi and potentially Teppei too.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

But I'm confused with what they'll do with the rest of the limited episodes. They're acting like they still have a lot more. What is happening here? Will they announce a surprise season or something?

Apparently one of the TV stations airing this still has Higurashi on the listings up till episode 30 or so which might mean that there's an extra cour coming for this which would just be ridiculous.

[blitz1/2]

#Teppei did nothing wrong. xD

[Ayu-ayu]

I'm in no way complimenting Satoko's methods, I just meant it was good to see some further clarification of

Spoiler for Umineko meta:

how or why their witch counterparts in Umineko are defined by Certainty and Miracles

.

[The Green One]

Well

Spoiler for Character comparison:

If they really do start to truly reflect Lamda and Bern then Rika is going to start retaliating against Satoko and things are going to start getting ugly....

[MeoTwister5]

So I'm guessing this now sets up Rika/Bern and Satoko/Lambda best frenemies status?

[The Green One]

Well Bern became Featherine's "miko" at some point. Perhaps his is foreshadowing for Rika's eventual "triumph?"

They're dropping too many plot points being dropped here for them to abandon this at this point.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I mentioned that earlier but it is somewhat confirmed there will be at least an additional cour for Higurashi Gou as Tokyo MX and other channels listed more episodes but quickly removed them. There were rumors of "Sotsu" as a follow up months ago, which would make sense for them to remove that info since it is technically another series (that and they did the same when Higurashi changed its title to Higurashi Gou). Additionally, the new ED showed up around episode 18, which would be the midpoint of the series if it was produced for 36 episodes.

Originally Posted by Dextro

Apparently one of the TV stations airing this still has Higurashi on the listings up till episode 30 or so which might mean that there's an extra cour coming for this which would just be ridiculous.

Oh, thanks for the heads up.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

It is very likely the Rika we have been following will be another one after Satoko is done with her preparations. As far as it goes, Rika isn't shown being super confused about what's going on so it seems Satoko is currently with the Rikas who failed to find the good end, aka Matsuribayashi.

I'm still really curious whether the Kai timeline (where everyone has grown) is wiped out from existence to give way for this Gou timeline or will we go back to Kai somehow.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I'm still really curious whether the Kai timeline (where everyone has grown) is wiped out from existence to give way for this Gou timeline or will we go back to Kai somehow.

Fragments don't disappear. There is at least one Rika living out her happy ending (just without Satoko, which is for the best anyway). Unless... that Rika is the one Eua pulled back into the loop.

[MeoTwister5]

It would actually be funny if Teppei changing for the better becomes contributory to Satoko realizing that she's becoming just like her uncle.

[maximilianjenus]

the biggest problem i had with this series was rika looping dor a mere 100 years while bernkastel had looped for 10,000. so, if satoko really makes rika loop for another 9,900 years i guess she deserves the lambdadelta title.

note that fragments created are already set in stone, that is the worth of rikas miracles even if they seem like a one in a million thing , they create new realities, or new branches of reality, if following the tree theory.

bern defeating lambda by making sure takano dies/her parents survive in the bus accident ia a really nice theory, kudos.

a random thought about the sword, at first i thought it was ugly, but after watching yuno i apreciate that it looks like a tree.

Originally Posted by Thunder Book

I've seen people joke that we're somehow going to get an Umineko Gou out of this where Rosatrice is true, and honestly it doesn't even feel impossible at this point.

Can't wait for Game Master KnownNoMore to finally make his appearance.

i have actually been waiting for that for years. i have not been close to the umineko comunity in years, so maybe this was already solved, but i remember the theory that, due to aome information given in episode 8, it is possible to have a completely different culprit that satisfies all the red text conditions provided you break the assumption that all the red text happened in the context of the island and make some thing happen outside of it.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

It would actually be funny if Teppei changing for the better becomes contributory to Satoko realizing that she's becoming just like her uncle.

To our knowledge, she has already become WORSE than Teppei. Teppei is a lot, yeah, but neither a mass murderer or a serial killer. Satoko on the other hand, is a mastermind to both.

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

the biggest problem i had with this series was rika looping dor a mere 100 years while bernkastel had looped for 10,000. so, if satoko really makes rika loop for another 9,900 years i guess she deserves the lambdadelta title.


a random thought about the sword, at first i thought it was ugly, but after watching yuno i apreciate that it looks like a tree.


i have actually been waiting for that for years. i have not been close to the umineko comunity in years, so maybe this was already solved, but i remember the theory that, due to aome information given in episode 8, it is possible to have a completely different culprit that satisfies all the red text conditions provided you break the assumption that all the red text happened in the context of the island and make some thing happen outside of it.

Fun fact about the sword:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven-Branched_Sword

As for Umineko, yeah there is another, rather strong, possibility, but saying that here would probably violate a spoiler rule of some sort, even if it's under wraps. Simply because people would start looking at said character's actions differently.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

To our knowledge, she has already become WORSE than Teppei. Teppei is a lot, yeah, but neither a mass murderer or a serial killer. Satoko on the other hand, is a mastermind to both.

Fun fact about the sword:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven-Branched_Sword

As for Umineko, yeah there is another, rather strong, possibility, but saying that here would probably violate a spoiler rule of some sort, even if it's under wraps. Simply because people would start looking at said character's actions differently.

Never thought I'd say this. But I think we owe Teppei an apology. He's a scumbag to be sure. He'll cheat people out of what they have, he's abusive, a bully, and overall he's just a bad person. But I'm pretty sure he's not a serial killer. In quick order Satoko's problem solving involved double suicide and lead insanely fast to mass murder. And then using said mass murder to psychologically destroy someone who's struggles allowed her to be alive to complain about things in the first place.

It'd be worth a debate to compare the evil that is Takano to Satoko. Takano committed multiple genocides, but she wasn't conscious of anything she did outside of the world she was living in. Satoko is intentionally and cruelly ruining untold amount of lives across multiple worlds until she gets what she wants. And while mass murder can never be justified, at least Takano's backstory and motivations weren't really dumb. You could at least see how she got to the horrible place she ended up at. It's been a while since I've seen as weak a motivation to be insanely evil as with Satoko. I still think Takano is worse overall, but that Satoko is in the same territory is pretty horrible.

[maximilianjenus]

takano also as a lv5, it was hinted before and gou leaves no doubt about that.
i wonder if the main reason satoko is so f*ed up is because she resets to a lv5/5 body.

and it was said that teppei never abused satoshi, the original abuser was satokos aunt, who was stressed because of teppeis habits.it was only when teppei moves to hinamisawa for one of two reasons that satoko geta abused by him, tho, indeed he goes very far. might as well let the cat out of the bag, because thia implies teppei is close to satoko and iirc he is the brother of satokos step father.otherwise it would be pretty weird that he thinks that satokos mom was hot and he regrets satoko being ao young ashe would have had more fun with satoko if she was older.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

takano also as a lv5, it was hinted before and gou leaves no doubt about that.
i wonder if the main reason satoko is so f*ed up is because she resets to a lv5/5 body.

Takano doesn't have HS, it is blatantly obvious that Tomitake just uses that as an excuse to save her. And most definitely she doesn't have L5, you would see her constantly scratching her neck if that was the case and she would be definitely more deranged and paranoid.

Moreover unless you want to suggest that doctor Irie is a quack, Satoko was completely cured from HS when she made the decision to kill both herself and Rika at St. Lucia.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Takano doesn't have HS, it is blatantly obvious that Tomitake just uses that as an excuse to save her. And most definitely she doesn't have L5, you would see her constantly scratching her neck if that was the case and she would be definitely more deranged and paranoid.

Moreover unless you want to suggest that doctor Irie is a quack, Satoko was completely cured from HS when she made the decision to kill both herself and Rika at St. Lucia.

To me, it reads more like that cured Satoko's mind returned back into her L5 body when she started looping, which is absolutely correct, as only her mind travels through the shards. Otherwise, we'd have highschool satoko running around killing Rika.

[maximilianjenus]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Takano doesn't have HS, it is blatantly obvious that Tomitake just uses that as an excuse to save her. And most definitely she doesn't have L5, you would see her constantly scratching her neck if that was the case and she would be definitely more deranged and paranoid.

Moreover unless you want to suggest that doctor Irie is a quack, Satoko was completely cured from HS when she made the decision to kill both herself and Rika at St. Lucia.

she doea scratch her neck, that was added in the manga version and i think it also was shown in go.

their treatment only auprrss their ainthompa, but the sybdrome might atill develop as asynthomatic and something can trigger it.