Code Geass (Generic discussion thread)

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

1. They should baw more then.

2. Interesting purpose? For Lelouch it had. Check episode 7 {she snapped him out}, 9 {he liked the top}, 10 {his raving about her being captured}, 18 {she pwned}, 19 {the live on} 22 {the mutual kiss}, and should i go on? So yes, for the fans that hated her, it was not interesting, for the plot itself, it was hella interesting.

3. You find Taniguchi and Okouchi, stupid, {you talked about plot pretty much} because they sticked to what they said, about Lelouch's LI development, being in R2? I think, you got the wrong term. That is called "time-true". You should have seen it coming.

4. I suppose, C.C eating her pizza was more interesting then, than Kallen doing Lelouch's dirty work, bringing him back to his senses and so on? Hum, oh well, to each his own. 8)

p.s you are complaining about OT, and yet you bring Kallen here? Because you brought her up, how about going going in Kallen's thread? You would not want reports now, would you? 8)

Awesome post ! You deserve a rep !
(But I can't Geeh, already gave you too much >.<)


(And yeah Kallen's thread says hello)

[Levy]

Originally Posted by Kusa-San

Well I don't think he is wrong here. Kallen love for Lelouch surely wavered for a moment unlike Milly love.
But it's not honnest to compare them because Kallen and Milly don't evolve in the same environnement.

*yawn*
Loosing faith in someone is very very different from stop loving: faith is something you give to someone worth of it. Love, your heart decide, and my dear, if it happens that you fall in love with the wrong person and/or at the wrong time/place, well, you are screwed.

This is valid in general. In the specific case, I really hate when my fellow CC/L fans try to say that Kallen's (in the ending) and Shirley's (when she learned and re-learned about him being Zero ) love for Lelouch wavered. That's not love, that's trust that was shaked, but their feelings for him remained the same and the girls were clearly suffering a shitload from this conflicting emotions.

How to do you know about Milly's love never been shaked, btw...?
if someone haven't told me from side materials, I'd have never noticed that Milly was in love with Lelouch.

Personnaly I like Lelouch and Milly pairing and I think it would have been good to have a bit more developpment for this pairing (but for me it's clearly one sided)

bah, could be, frankly, I could have done without all the Lulu pairing, morover Milly, given the fact he got nearly zero development, could have been not even hinted at leaving the story inalterated and without giving us this sick sensation that any girl in the show of a fitting age is *fated* to fall for Lulu and/or Suzaku, like there was no other way to have a significant male/female interaction if not rabu- rabu interaction..... but that's just me.

Well just to precise that a chara with BG will always be superior with one wih no BG if their behavior is the same.

LOL, superior in which sense....? I think it's just preferences.
I'm a complete sucker for characters that have a very very small background while major characters doesn't get me the same. It depends on personal standards... some fans just need to find something appealing in some traits of a characters and obsess over them even if they are given just small elements about them.... right, Nogi-dear?

@darth: nothing personal against you, dude, but try to think if you are not being a bit too much persistent with your claims. Ah, always wanted to ask you, you are the same guy that posted as 'Max' on randomcuriosity when the series was airing, right? if that's not you, I think you've found a soulmate.. XD!

@Loli: chica, Kallen likes pink, not red, get it straight... =P

[Kusa-San]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

Well, her feelings are a part of her character, even without liking Kallen and Lelouch pairing, i think it still is important to see her reactions to Lelouch, specially because in the first season she was a big fan of Zero and it's not like she was just going to accept Zero was Lelouch like no big deal. It was needed to show their interactions and Kallen getting to know the man behind the mask to complete the development they started at season 1.

Oh I agree that developpment was need about Lelouch and Kallen because Kallen knew Lelouch true identity. But the main problem here is that there was not that much focus about that. No, the truth is there is pratically no focus on that. I mean, it would be more interesting to see Kallen doubt about Lelouch/Zero.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Kusa-San

Oh I agree that developpment was need about Lelouch and Kallen because Kallen knew Lelouch true identity. But the main problem here is that there was not that much focus about that. No, the truth is there is pratically no focus on that. I mean, it would be more interesting to see Kallen doubt about Lelouch/Zero.

And you obviously missed the time-skip, that allowed Kallen to think, who she wants to follow/understand. And Turn 2, a meaningful dialogue, that did make sense and allowed her motives to reveal.

And btw, for Kallen it took some time to "accept" Lelouch/Zero, it was not like, she was eating banana and reading Superman-comic in her bathroom saying "w/e".

People btw, why do you bring up Kallen in the generic thread, i am "forced" to reply and i can already foresee reports and people bitching how Kallen-Kallen-Kallen everywhere. We got a thread for that, why don't we all go and play there? 8)

[Kusa-San]

Originally Posted by Levy

*yawn*
Loosing faith in someone is very very different from stop loving: faith is something you give to someone worth of it. Love, your heart decide, and my dear, if it happens that you fall in love with the wrong person and/or at the wrong time/place, well, you are screwed.

I don't agree. You can have doubt about the man you love then your love wavered. But I never said that Kallen doesn't love Lelouch, I said that her love wavered. It's not the same.

LOL, superior in which sense....? I think it's just preferences.
I'm a complete sucker for characters that have a very very small background while major characters doesn't get me the same. It depends on personal standards... some fans just need to find something appealing in some traits of a characters and obsess over them even if they are given just small elements about them.... right, Nogi-dear?

No, you don't understand here I think. Two identical character (or almost). The one with a BG developpment with always be superior.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Kusa-San

No, you don't understand here I think. Two identical character (or almost). The one with a BG developpment with always be superior.

Wait, you said that Kallen is way less interesting {thus, not identical} than C.C? You are taking back that now? I am confused.

[Kusa-San]

No I was speaking in general term -_- Well the problem is that it was not shown in S2 (about Kallen doubt).

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Kusa-San

No I was speaking in general term -_- Well the problem is that it was not shown in S2 (about Kallen doubt).

There is not generalization, when you are pointing out, the flaws of one character, to make it seem, less important than another. Your argument, makes no sense.

[bladeofdarkness]

she spent the first half of the show trying to figure out what lelouch's real face was
then spent the later part fighting against him under the WRONG impression that he actively tried to impress on her
during the battle her entire mindframe revolved around lelouch (albit, in a i have to stop him myself)
she spent the entire season in doubt before finally understanding everything in the last ep
what more doubt do you want ?

[Kid Ying]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Wait, you said that Kallen is way less interesting {thus, not identical} than C.C? You are taking back that now? I am confused.

It's not about C.C or Kallen, he said that when there's two identical characters, the one with a background will be superior. In other words, if there's two Kallens, the Kallen that got a flashback is superior to the one that didn't got one.

And i disagree about your statement, Kusa. Love and faith are two different things. Kallen did lose her faith in Lelouch because of his actions as the emperor, but her love remained there and they clearly show this on the last fight.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

It's not about C.C or Kallen, he said that when there's two identical characters, the one with a background will be superior. In other words, if there's two Kallens, the Kallen that got a flashback is superior to the one that didn't got one.

And i disagree about your statement, Kusa. Love and faith are two different things. Kallen did lose her faith in Lelouch because of his actions as the emperor, but her love remained there and they clearly show this on the last fight.

Still, he pointed out C.C being superior anyway, so i do not get, what you do not get either? Identical = pretty much the same.

[Levy]

Originally Posted by Kusa-San

I don't agree. You can have doubt about the man you love then your love wavered. But I never said that Kallen doesn't love Lelouch, I said that her love wavered. It's not the same.

In fact, it's your point about 'wavering love' I don't agree with.
Both in fiction and IRL, loosing your trust in the person you love questioned is very different and even opposed to love him/her.
Think about people that are abandoned in favour of another woman/man. Their faith in their partner is crushed, yet they suffer a lot because their feelings for them are still there.

I think that both Karen and Shirley found themselves in a similar situation: they didn't know anymore if the person in front of them was nothing more than a dirty liar, still, they can't help but love him, an therefore, they are suffering a lot...

No, you don't understand here I think. Two identical character (or almost). The one with a BG developpment with always be superior.

superior in wich field?
I don't understand, and anyway, if you are talking about leaving a lasting impression in the audience, then I think that this is higly subjective, and more based on our personal perception of characters rather then how much of a detailed background they get.

[bladeofdarkness]

the reason both kallen and sheirly were in so much pain over it was BECOUSE they still loved him
not becouse they STOPPED

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

the reason both kallen and sheirly were in so much pain over it was BECOUSE they still loved him
not becouse they STOPPED

Didn't you realize blade? That is irrelevant.
The fact that Lelouch wanted and did his best to push away Kallen {btw, the staff said that she was gonna follow him in episode 22, that is irrelevant as well} is irrelevant too.
The point is, that certain people, ignore the context of events, and just see Kallen "walking away" and this of course automatically means = love went away.

Sure thing, i am telling you, if Kallen forced herself to Lelouch again and again, and ignored his "demon"-ways, that would mean she was gonna be a total stupid lovesick girl.
If she fought him {like she did} her love went bang-bang. There is no way to win, i am telling you.

[bladeofdarkness]

good point
they also dont see any of the horrible horrible things lelouch actually does to MAKE kallen turn against him (rather then simply walk away)
they just see "kallen is fighting against him, OMGWTFBBQ traitor"

[Kusa-San]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

It's not about C.C or Kallen, he said that when there's two identical characters, the one with a background will be superior. In other words, if there's two Kallens, the Kallen that got a flashback is superior to the one that didn't got one.

Yes that's exactly that. But she need more than one flasback though

And i disagree about your statement, Kusa. Love and faith are two different things. Kallen did lose her faith in Lelouch because of his actions as the emperor, but her love remained there and they clearly show this on the last fight.

Humm I don't agree when you love someone you have faith in him. Faith and love are bond together. So I think her love wavered. But It's normal when we see her environnement (war etc....).

@blade : I was talking about the identity of Lelouch as Zero. Personnaly, I was waiting more than just what they showed.

[bladeofdarkness]

the reason why betrayal hurts is becouse it hurts your TRUST
you still love someone afterwards

[Kid Ying]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Still, he pointed out C.C being superior anyway, so i do not get, what you do not get either? Identical = pretty much the same.

Well, you certainly have a point, hehe.

Let me see... Well, Kusa said he didn't like Kallen to begin with, but with a background, this could have changed, but he liked C.C and the background made her even more awesome. So, he's saying that, as the way things are, C.C wins and if they were the same character, C.C would have won too, because she got a background hehe.

About the whole wavered thing, i think everyone covered it. And we don't even need the word of the staff to knew that she would have(and wanted) to follow him, Incorrupts. I think that's really clear in the show itself.

And Kusa, c'mon, love and faith grown up together, but they're not mutually related to the point that if one goes down, the other goes down too. Lelouch made a lot of things to make everyone hate him and it would be totally out of Kallen character to just sit there thinking he's right in establishing his order to the world just because he's her man and she believes he's doing just good things, even if he's doing bad things and KNOW IT.

No, Kallen was in love to the point that she was crying on the battlefield. Blind herself from Lelouch's evil actions because of faith is not love, it's just stupidity.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

Well, you certainly have a point, hehe.

Let me see... Well, Kusa said he didn't like Kallen to begin with, but with a background, this could have changed, but he liked C.C and the background made her even more awesome. So, he's saying that, as the way things are, C.C wins and if they were the same character, C.C would have won too, because she got a background hehe.

About the whole wavered thing, i think everyone covered it. And we don't even need the word of the staff to knew that she would have(and wanted) to follow him, Incorrupts. I think that's really clear in the show itself.

And? He later, used the word "identical." This is called push-back and makes no-sense.

And also, i just brought that up, to say that even the staff said it.
Of course, someone that watched the whole series, without being deaf or ignoring Kallen/Kalulu scenes, would get that. Which seems, not to be the case around these boards, so i made sure, i would include that.
I do not like, using empty bullets, {which are not empty but anyway} when i got the chance, to full-load my argument-gun, with the words of the staff.

[Kusa-San]

Originally Posted by Levy

In fact, it's your point about 'wavering love' I don't agree with.
Both in fiction and IRL, loosing your trust in the person you love questioned is very different and even opposed to love him/her.
Think about people that are abandoned in favour of another woman/man. Their faith in their partner is crushed, yet they suffer a lot because their feelings for them are still there.

Hum your example is not good I think. Because in your case she knows that he crushed her. So, in the end, it's not the same. Your love wavered when you don't know anymore your patner.

I think that both Karen and Shirley found themselves in a similar situation: they didn't know anymore if the person in front of them was nothing more than a dirty liar, still, they can't help but love him, an therefore, they are suffering a lot...

Well I think their love wavered a bit >_< (I think we will never agree with each other )

superior in wich field?
I don't understand, and anyway, if you are talking about leaving a lasting impression in the audience, then I think that this is higly subjective, and more based on our personal perception of characters rather then how much of a detailed background they get

. It's just what Kid said. Take two Kallen or two person identical (or almost) the one with BG will always be more attractive than one with no BG.