AnimeSuki Forums

pianocello · 2006-04-16, 00:54

I am refering to this particular thread:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31057

I have been posting in anime forums for a decade and have been a moderator in some of the other forums. To my knowledge, the reasons for locking a thread are usually flaming, provocative posts or redundant posts amongst other reasons. I didn't know there was such a rule that claims that when you give a question, you must provide your own answers before anyone else does. If there is, please point it out to me.

I don't mean any offense but the way this thread was locked was very patronizing and high-handed. There are 2 problems with the reasoning that "you need to post your opinion before other people do":
(1)As I said before, what is the point of asking a question and then providing the answer yourself before others do?
(2)There are numerous "Who/what/which/ is the ____est in this anime" threads especially in the General Anime forum or the various anime specific forums. It is pointless to start this kind of discussion and THEN provide your opinion in the opening post before others reply as this is going to influence other people's answers. If you check most of these threads, the original poster does not usually put their opinions first to avoid influencing other people's opinions.

To be honest, I am rather offended with the one this issue was done as it felt like the mod was imposing his personal opinion into the thread and deciding that he felt that it was not appropriate and didn't want anyone to reply so he locked it. He declared immediately that the only hot characters were Johan and Nina. Maybe some of us might think Eva is hot? Some women also find Tenma's determination to be sexy, you know. This would be like a mod jumping into Mai Otome's "Who is your favorite shoujoai couple?" thread and declaring that "there is no other shoujoai couple other than ShizNat" and then proceeding to lock the thread merely because he didn't think that there were other shoujoai couples. Or maybe he was homophobic and felt uncomfortable with the subject matter.

I joined this forum hoping to be able to discuss anime. Instead of being encouraged to revive the gradually dying subforum (the Monster forum) which is getting less posts, I have my attempts to create discussion stiffled out. What gives?

My sincere apologies if anyone is offended with this complaint but I feel that this needs to be looked into to avoid any potential future unpleasantness. Thank you for your time.

lavielove · 2006-04-16, 04:11

I'm not a mod but I used to put shame-less plug to recruit =D Come and join us in this thread =D and promote the character to convince the others.I'll be waiting for your post there.cheers

Asphyxiate · 2006-04-16, 06:34

I may be interpreting this wrong, their first comment seems to be just a rhetorical question...and I don't believe you should take it as one abusing their powers by imposing their ideas. Rhetorical question tend to either be sardonically comical or persuasive, it is simply the way that some people act. (Don't take it personally.) You haven't seen sarcastic thread closures unless you've witnessed Leroux at the RoE forums.

If it's just the way they handles things then well...it'll just be the way they handle things neh.

To revive a dying subforum perhaps you should post something that would encourage a thoughtful discussion and not just another 'Who blah blah blah topic?'

Apologies if I'm completely off base.

1.0.7. · 2006-04-16, 07:42

you're just upset with the comment aren't you?
in which in all fairness, was pretty insensitive by NSW.

in any case, he was right to close down that thread of yours..and your reason for creating it is pretty weak. something like that really won't start the monster forum ablaze. proof of that?- the first reply you got was that the thread was going to be closed down..

either way, just go on with it..it's not worth fighting for i tell you

Thany · 2006-04-16, 14:03

I think if you had given as much infos here as in your thread, maybe NSW wouldn't have closed it

Well I said maybe, because I can't really tell anyway :P
Still it's true you didn't give any effort in that thread, so it's easy to understand he/she decided to not give any effort in term of moderation :P

NoSanninWa · 2006-04-17, 01:23

In the future, if you have a problem with the way a moderator treats something, I hope you'll remember that it is best to bring your complaint directly the the moderator. You're much more likely to get a reversal of a decision that way.

Since I started this tiny controversy, I'll explain. I closed that thread simply because it wasn't likely to create any interesting discussion. Monster is a show that simply isn't known for "hot" characters. Neither the art style, nor the way that the story is told, support such a contention. In order to support your question, you'd have needed to do a better job of creating the thread.

If you had something interesting to say in your post, such as the reasons that a certain character is "hot," then I could have been persuaded to leave your thread in peace. The creator of a thread needs to actually write something interesting at the beginning of a thread in order to create something interesting out of an unsuitable topic. Lacking anything other than a plea for others to present an opinion, it looked unlikely to produce conversation of any intersting level. So I killed it.

Lexander · 2006-04-17, 15:05

Does it really matter how you close a thread like that?

Calca · 2006-04-17, 19:13

You don't know NSW very well do you?

He once made Bruce Willis cry when he posted here and NSW was an asshole to him.

pianocello · 2006-04-17, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

Since I started this tiny controversy, I'll explain. I closed that thread simply because it wasn't likely to create any interesting discussion. Monster is a show that simply isn't known for "hot" characters. Neither the art style, nor the way that the story is told, support such a contention. In order to support your question, you'd have needed to do a better job of creating the thread.

If you had something interesting to say in your post, such as the reasons that a certain character is "hot," then I could have been persuaded to leave your thread in peace. The creator of a thread needs to actually write something interesting at the beginning of a thread in order to create something interesting out of an unsuitable topic. Lacking anything other than a plea for others to present an opinion, it looked unlikely to produce conversation of any intersting level. So I killed it.

If I may respectfully say so, there are some flaws with your argument. First you say that "Monster is a show that simply isn't known for hot characters." That is YOUR opinion. Not everyone may feel the same. Is your opinion a fact that has been backed by official research? No.
I already gave a Mai Otome thread as an example for comparison but I'll give another one. It's a like a school lesson where a teacher "feels" that something should be done in a certain way without being able to substantiate what they say. And because a student raises up the question of whether a particular issues can be done another way, the teacher immediately shuts the student up just because the teacher has no way of being able to substantiate the argument. (I bring up this metaphor since I teach - I always have facts to back up my explaination).

I have already explained why I didn't explain more - by saying who I think is "hot", the thread becomes pointless. It's like me saying "Here I think blah blah blah is hot. Don't you agree with me?"
If you had wanted me to elaborate more, you could have posted a request but no, you just had to dive in and lock the thread before anyone could say anything.

My aim of this post is not just a plea for you to revive the thread but mostly to make sure that there is no future unpleasantness to stiffle healthy discussions since there are other mods on this forum and my aim is to bring this to their attention in case another one of them does the same. I hope you take the thoughts of someone who has also been a mod in other boards into consideration. Thank you for your time.

Sazelyt · 2006-04-17, 21:01

I don't think what the moderator thinks (or feels) is highly subjective. I haven't watched the anime, but I've read the manga. And to be honest, there are not many characters that you can make a selection based on the hotness criteria.

You can always make a case such as a rather old/middle-aged poster might say that old lady/guy or middle-aged lady/guy was hot for me, etc. Regardless of that, compared to other hotness related threads, that thread would have looked a little bit simple. If there were many main characters to choose from, you might have been right about the subjectivity. But, I think that is not the case here. In my opinion, the admin's thought was closer to an objective observation rather than a subjective one.

Another point of your argument is about the content of the thread-starter post. I don't think anyone would consider sharing one's opinion (as long it is not at the boundary of unlogical-line) as a pointless attempt. You can make a good example of how you expect the thread look like if you strongly believe the importance of your thread by sharing your opinions on the subject at the beginning. And that is not specific to your case. This is something generally expected and appreciated by the other posters.

NoSanninWa · 2006-04-17, 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by pianocello

If I may respectfully say so, there are some flaws with your argument. First you say that "Monster is a show that simply isn't known for hot characters." That is YOUR opinion.

It certainly is nothing more than my opinion. That opinion was backed by having read a lot of other opinions over several years of Monster during which very few ever mentioned anyone being "hot," despite that being an active topic for almost any other show. So, let's say that I have a rather informed opinion. With that aside, if you had done a better job of creating the thread, there's a good chance that I wouldn't have closed the thread. My own opinion about the topic isn't the only reason that I acted as I did.

This doesn't bother me, but it is interesting that the original post by pianocello that I closed was a mere two lines of nothing useful and yet he wrote two lengthy posts to detail his indignation. Go figure?

If he'd put that much work into the original thread, I really doubt that it would have been closed.

Blizzer · 2006-04-18, 06:58

I think it would have been right to close it on the basis of his post being brief but I don't think closing it on the basis of opinion is right and if it wasn't attracting any replys why not just leave it and let it dissappear on its own... no offense but seems like a case of power abuse

Superchop · 2006-04-18, 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blizzer

I think it would have been right to close it on the basis of his post being brief but I don't think closing it on the basis of opinion is right and if it wasn't attracting any replys why not just leave it and let it dissappear on its own... no offense but seems like a case of power abuse

Umm...the main reason he did close it was cause it was brief...NSW already mentioned that if more went into the first post he would've left it open. His oppinion "might" have played a small role in closing the thread but it wasn't the main one...

pianocello · 2006-04-18, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

It certainly is nothing more than my opinion. That opinion was backed by having read a lot of other opinions over several years of Monster during which very few ever mentioned anyone being "hot," despite that being an active topic for almost any other show. So, let's say that I have a rather informed opinion. With that aside, if you had done a better job of creating the thread, there's a good chance that I wouldn't have closed the thread. My own opinion about the topic isn't the only reason that I acted as I did.

This doesn't bother me, but it is interesting that the original post by pianocello that I closed was a mere two lines of nothing useful and yet he wrote two lengthy posts to detail his indignation. Go figure?

If he'd put that much work into the original thread, I really doubt that it would have been closed.

Very clever choice of words considering that you could have easily encouraged me to write more by posting "I don't think the characters in this show are hot. Could you elaborate more?" to which I would have gladly agreed to do so. But no, you come in and lock the thread and then you turn around and tell the whole world that you're locking the thread because this user was making too brief a post (though I suspect it is more to do with the thread not being to your taste) without giving the user a chance to elaborate since the thread is already locked.

You also have a clever way of avoidng the main issues which I am trying raise. You have not been able to point out exactly where in the forum rules that I am violating and not only that, you suddenly invent a new rule that the thread is locked because it is only two lines long. I've been posting in anime forums for a decade and this is certainly the first time that I've heard that a thread should be locked because it is only two lines long. Not only that, you continue to act like I have no reason to be aggrieved and raise an issue over this and continue to shoo me away in a condescending manner as if "this user is probably a newbie who knows nothing and hence I'm going to hush up this user."

Back to the issue of "hotness". Your opinions are probably based on anime blogs and a few other forums which you have visited.Of course it goes without saying that most of what the majority of anime fans consider hot would probably have stuff like 10 year old lolis, girls with oversized boobs or angsty shirtless bishounen. Monster doesn't cater to that demograhic that is looking for those and hence it is out of curiousity that I am interested in what characters the audience finds attractive.

My apologies if my comments offend anyone but I think it is better for me to clarify clearly on the issue to avoid any potential misunderstanding.

Kamui4356 · 2006-04-18, 21:16

So you had a thread closed, what's the big deal? Is your life ruined because of it? It's a very minor thing. Everyone has threads closed, posts deleted, and the like. Just be glad animesuki isn't the kind of forum where people can post anything, no matter how pointless, or are banned when they say something the mods disagree with.

It's quite fairly run compared to some forums I've lurked on. Accept that someone didn't think your thread was as "l33t" as you seem to and move on with your life.

1.0.7. · 2006-04-18, 21:28

pianocello's just beating on a dead horse (is that the right term?).. honestly, it's not a big deal. NSW is justified, and pianocello, no matter how smartly you try to disguise your posts with trying to be smart and proper, in essence it's just another two line post. much like your thread. and what are you trying to achieve here? doing this won't re open the thread. you're much better off using your complicated vocabulary to open a more intellectual discussion thread, and hotness does not fall into that bracket

pianocello · 2006-04-18, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamui4356

So you had a thread closed, what's the big deal? Is your life ruined because of it? It's a very minor thing. Everyone has threads closed, posts deleted, and the like. Just be glad animesuki isn't the kind of forum where people can post anything, no matter how pointless, or are banned when they say something the mods disagree with.

It's quite fairly run compared to some forums I've lurked on. Accept that someone didn't think your thread was as "l33t" as you seem to and move on with your life.

Whoa. No need to be so rude. I am merely expressing dissatisfaction at a certain issue. If you don't agree, that's fine but it's extremely rude to tell someone that they have no right to be unhappy with something.

Animizzle · 2006-04-18, 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by pianocello

Whoa. No need to be so rude. I am merely expressing dissatisfaction at a certain issue. If you don't agree, that's fine but it's extremely rude to tell someone that they have no right to be unhappy with something.

Since the conventional polite ways have been tried. Let me give it another shot:

Image Removed

I understand your desire to gain some recognition for your personal opinion, seriously I do. But you're not going to get it here. In fact, try to spare yourself from the utter (and amusing to us) irony of letting this thread get closed by, yes..NSW.

ayyo · 2006-04-18, 23:37

The problem isn't your opinion or arguement, its that you decided to air this public. This could've been done and resolved by pming with the offending moderator. You should've known this if you have been "posting in anime forums for a decade and have been a moderator in some of the other forums".

NoSanninWa · 2006-04-19, 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by pianocello

You also have a clever way of avoidng the main issues which I am trying raise. You have not been able to point out exactly where in the forum rules that I am violating and not only that, you suddenly invent a new rule that the thread is locked because it is only two lines long.

That's your main issue? Aside from the fact that I am required to use my own judgement and experience at figuring out what is good for this forum and I have a personal dislike of badly created threads... how about 2.2 Do not begin topics that lack purpose. That basically allows me to kill any thread that I don't feel is meaningful. And yes, I have a LOT of leeway as to how I want to enforce it. We purposefully built that leeway into the rules because we know that personal judgement is more flexible and useful than writing every possible case into stone. We choose our moderators carefully to be certain that their judgement is in line with the priciples of this forum. Sometimes mistakes are made because we are human, but I don't think that this time I made a mistake. Certainly your behaviour since then doesn't change my opinion.

Now, I hope that you will simply get over the fact that I didn't like your thread. If you feel that our moderation is oppressive and unfair, then there are a lot of other forums where I am certain you will be able to post about the "hotness" of characters in Monster. Please post about it there.

2006-04-16, 00:54	Link #1
pianocello Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Allow me to make a complaint I am refering to this particular thread: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31057 I have been posting in anime forums for a decade and have been a moderator in some of the other forums. To my knowledge, the reasons for locking a thread are usually flaming, provocative posts or redundant posts amongst other reasons. I didn't know there was such a rule that claims that when you give a question, you must provide your own answers before anyone else does. If there is, please point it out to me. I don't mean any offense but the way this thread was locked was very patronizing and high-handed. There are 2 problems with the reasoning that "you need to post your opinion before other people do": (1)As I said before, what is the point of asking a question and then providing the answer yourself before others do? (2)There are numerous "Who/what/which/ is the ____est in this anime" threads especially in the General Anime forum or the various anime specific forums. It is pointless to start this kind of discussion and THEN provide your opinion in the opening post before others reply as this is going to influence other people's answers. If you check most of these threads, the original poster does not usually put their opinions first to avoid influencing other people's opinions. To be honest, I am rather offended with the one this issue was done as it felt like the mod was imposing his personal opinion into the thread and deciding that he felt that it was not appropriate and didn't want anyone to reply so he locked it. He declared immediately that the only hot characters were Johan and Nina. Maybe some of us might think Eva is hot? Some women also find Tenma's determination to be sexy, you know. This would be like a mod jumping into Mai Otome's "Who is your favorite shoujoai couple?" thread and declaring that "there is no other shoujoai couple other than ShizNat" and then proceeding to lock the thread merely because he didn't think that there were other shoujoai couples. Or maybe he was homophobic and felt uncomfortable with the subject matter. I joined this forum hoping to be able to discuss anime. Instead of being encouraged to revive the gradually dying subforum (the Monster forum) which is getting less posts, I have my attempts to create discussion stiffled out. What gives? My sincere apologies if anyone is offended with this complaint but I feel that this needs to be looked into to avoid any potential future unpleasantness. Thank you for your time.

2006-04-17, 01:23	Link #6
NoSanninWa Weapon of Mass Discussion Fansubber Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: New York, USA	In the future, if you have a problem with the way a moderator treats something, I hope you'll remember that it is best to bring your complaint directly the the moderator. You're much more likely to get a reversal of a decision that way. Since I started this tiny controversy, I'll explain. I closed that thread simply because it wasn't likely to create any interesting discussion. Monster is a show that simply isn't known for "hot" characters. Neither the art style, nor the way that the story is told, support such a contention. In order to support your question, you'd have needed to do a better job of creating the thread. If you had something interesting to say in your post, such as the reasons that a certain character is "hot," then I could have been persuaded to leave your thread in peace. The creator of a thread needs to actually write something interesting at the beginning of a thread in order to create something interesting out of an unsuitable topic. Lacking anything other than a plea for others to present an opinion, it looked unlikely to produce conversation of any intersting level. So I killed it. __________________ There's not that fine a line between willing suspension of disbelief and something just being stupid.

2006-04-18, 06:58	Link #12
Blizzer Nemo Me Impune Lacessit Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: England Age: 34	I think it would have been right to close it on the basis of his post being brief but I don't think closing it on the basis of opinion is right and if it wasn't attracting any replys why not just leave it and let it dissappear on its own... no offense but seems like a case of power abuse __________________ My Top 5 1.Shadow Skill 2.Fate/Stay Night 3.Hanbun No Tsuki Ga Noboru Sora 4.Gunparade March 5.Kaibutsu Oujo

2006-04-18, 21:16	Link #15
Kamui4356 Aria Company Join Date: Nov 2003	So you had a thread closed, what's the big deal? Is your life ruined because of it? It's a very minor thing. Everyone has threads closed, posts deleted, and the like. Just be glad animesuki isn't the kind of forum where people can post anything, no matter how pointless, or are banned when they say something the mods disagree with. It's quite fairly run compared to some forums I've lurked on. Accept that someone didn't think your thread was as "l33t" as you seem to and move on with your life. __________________

2006-04-16, 04:11	Link #2
lavielove ... Join Date: Dec 2005	I'm not a mod but I used to put shame-less plug to recruit =D Come and join us in this thread =D and promote the character to convince the others.I'll be waiting for your post there.cheers

2006-04-16, 06:34	Link #3
Asphyxiate Blob Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: In a place where only anonymii dare tread. Age: 33	I may be interpreting this wrong, their first comment seems to be just a rhetorical question...and I don't believe you should take it as one abusing their powers by imposing their ideas. Rhetorical question tend to either be sardonically comical or persuasive, it is simply the way that some people act. (Don't take it personally.) You haven't seen sarcastic thread closures unless you've witnessed Leroux at the RoE forums. If it's just the way they handles things then well...it'll just be the way they handle things neh. To revive a dying subforum perhaps you should post something that would encourage a thoughtful discussion and not just another 'Who blah blah blah topic?' Apologies if I'm completely off base.

2006-04-16, 07:42	Link #4
1.0.7. real folk blues.. Join Date: Dec 2005	you're just upset with the comment aren't you? in which in all fairness, was pretty insensitive by NSW. in any case, he was right to close down that thread of yours..and your reason for creating it is pretty weak. something like that really won't start the monster forum ablaze. proof of that?- the first reply you got was that the thread was going to be closed down.. either way, just go on with it..it's not worth fighting for i tell you

2006-04-16, 14:03	Link #5
Thany Unfair Join Date: Nov 2003	I think if you had given as much infos here as in your thread, maybe NSW wouldn't have closed it Well I said maybe, because I can't really tell anyway :P Still it's true you didn't give any effort in that thread, so it's easy to understand he/she decided to not give any effort in term of moderation :P

2006-04-17, 15:05	Link #7
Lexander www.thefestlanders.com Join Date: Dec 2003	Does it really matter how you close a thread like that?

2006-04-17, 19:13	Link #8
Calca Expressionless Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Walking on the path known as life	You don't know NSW very well do you? He once made Bruce Willis cry when he posted here and NSW was an asshole to him.

2006-04-17, 21:01	Link #10
Sazelyt Μ ε r c ü r υ Join Date: Jun 2004	I don't think what the moderator thinks (or feels) is highly subjective. I haven't watched the anime, but I've read the manga. And to be honest, there are not many characters that you can make a selection based on the hotness criteria. You can always make a case such as a rather old/middle-aged poster might say that old lady/guy or middle-aged lady/guy was hot for me, etc. Regardless of that, compared to other hotness related threads, that thread would have looked a little bit simple. If there were many main characters to choose from, you might have been right about the subjectivity. But, I think that is not the case here. In my opinion, the admin's thought was closer to an objective observation rather than a subjective one. Another point of your argument is about the content of the thread-starter post. I don't think anyone would consider sharing one's opinion (as long it is not at the boundary of unlogical-line) as a pointless attempt. You can make a good example of how you expect the thread look like if you strongly believe the importance of your thread by sharing your opinions on the subject at the beginning. And that is not specific to your case. This is something generally expected and appreciated by the other posters.

2006-04-18, 21:28	Link #16
1.0.7. real folk blues.. Join Date: Dec 2005	pianocello's just beating on a dead horse (is that the right term?).. honestly, it's not a big deal. NSW is justified, and pianocello, no matter how smartly you try to disguise your posts with trying to be smart and proper, in essence it's just another two line post. much like your thread. and what are you trying to achieve here? doing this won't re open the thread. you're much better off using your complicated vocabulary to open a more intellectual discussion thread, and hotness does not fall into that bracket

2006-04-18, 23:37	Link #19
ayyo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	The problem isn't your opinion or arguement, its that you decided to air this public. This could've been done and resolved by pming with the offending moderator. You should've known this if you have been "posting in anime forums for a decade and have been a moderator in some of the other forums".