AnimeSuki Forums

AmyElizzabeth · 2009-12-03, 21:32

I already know what happens at the end

Ferny · 2009-12-03, 22:10

Does anyone have the link to where I can download all of the sound novel's character sprites so far? Or even just some of them is fine, but if anyone has ALL of them, that'd be great~

Lemons · 2009-12-04, 21:25

I have a question, seems somewhat a question of overview.

Spoiler:

ChibiBear · 2009-12-04, 21:31

If your friend liked Higurashi, shouldn't he be used to having 'random crap thrown'?

The repeating thing is pretty much the same as Higurashi too right? IMO, the only huge difference is that in Higurashi, most of the stuff you see can be trusted (Damn you Keiichi), but in Umineko, you have to question everything you see. Just tell him it's part of the story and the end will be worth it

Archon_Wing · 2009-12-04, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemons

I have a question, seems somewhat a question of overview.

Spoiler:

Spoiler for Higurashi and Umineko animes:

Hah, being an anime only viewer, I share his viewpoint to some degree-- though I have started liking the show more as of late. But the whole point of the show is that truth can often be very subjective and can only be reached by different perspective.

Consider a court case. As we may know, witness testimony isn't always the most accurate. Even people that were at a scene can give very different accounts. Only by piecing together all these accounts and gathering evidence can we paint an accurate depiction of what happened. We can never reach the absolute truth but we can try with reason.

The other thing is that accepting the witch is the easy way out. It is typical of people to try to make sense of things. When they can't make sense out of it, they tend to succumb to whatever explanation becomes available. This is how many myths are created. And a lie repeated many times becomes truth. That is the power of the witch. Only those that would cast aside their past prejudice and biases can begin to seek the truth.

That IMO, is the theme of Umineko.

The second theme of Umineko could be considered similar to Higurashi. In Higurashi, Rika and Hanyuu continously reset the world until they find one where they don't die. They basically have a ton of continues and can keep trying until they give up, or until Hanyuu runs out of power. But mostly, they are limited by their willpower.

In Umineko, Battler can never lose if he refuses to acknoledge the witch. Thus, the only way to lose is to give up.

So a common theme is that you are not defeated truly until you give up. This theme plays true and is emphasized more in the second arc and the fourth one that is currently running.

Thus, Battler must always be thinking. The moment he stops thinking, and is tempted to accept fantasy, then he has lost. And you, the viewer, must not also blindly accept what's been given to you. The witch would win otherwise.

Another defense of the show I can think about, is that several of the characters get developed pretty well, and the emotional impact is quite strong in the 2nd half of this 1st season. You would also start considering Beatrice's motivations as well as the motivations of other witches.

The final defense of this show is that Higurashi was also a mess during the first season and made very little sense. But Kai made everything more clear... so I think he should give Umineko the same chance.

Lemons · 2009-12-04, 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChibiBear

If your friend liked Higurashi, shouldn't he be used to having 'random crap thrown'?

The repeating thing is pretty much the same as Higurashi too right? IMO, the only huge difference is that in Higurashi, most of the stuff you see can be trusted (Damn you Keiichi), but in Umineko, you have to question everything you see. Just tell him it's part of the story and the end will be worth it

Thats the thing though, I've tried every aspect of explanation, but he still says "It's stupid" and that the question of belief is only brought up in Higurashi by Keiichi once, and in Kai.

It's gotten to the point he even compared it to Yugioh! -__-

Many of the people here, just almost think of Umi as if a stoner series

His reason come from there.

ChibiBear · 2009-12-04, 21:47

That's weird... But the Higurashi question arcs didn't make much more sense than Umineko's, we just haven't seen Umineko's answer arcs yet. Tell him it will make more sense then

P.S. How can you possibly compare Umineko to Yugioh... =.=

June 1983 · 2009-12-04, 21:53

The thing is this ... if a person is not willing to buy into the concept of Umineko and get on the train and stay on it, then you're not going to be able to get them to get into the show. Unfortunately, I wouldn't say Umineko is one of those "wait and see and be amazed!!!!" shows. Maybe it's like that for people who are interested in being amazed, but if someone is totally resisting it, that is impossible. To enjoy Umineko and to be able to participate in solving the mystery (which in my opinion and many other people's as well is the main source of enjoyment in this story), you have to be prepared to 1) accept the "rules" of the game and be willing to play by them, 2) think about, question, and consider every piece of information you are given, and 3) actively try to make sense of what you are seeing -- without somehow trying to bend the story to your will of what kind of story you "think" it should be.

A lot of people aren't willing to do that. Especially when watching an anime, because it's a medium which is more about instant gratification, partially because you have to be content with getting 20 minutes of story once a week and if you don't get what you are looking for on a week by week basis you need a patience which many people don't have.

It's funny because many of these requirements were also necessary for watching "Higurashi". But I think quite a lot of people came into the first season of Higurashi not watching it week by week but hearing about it later by word of mouth and watching it all at once, which is quite a different experience. Then they bought into its concept and were prepared to hold on through the tough periods in Kai.

I think that and also the fact that a lot of people are prejudiced towards Umineko because of its association with Higurashi means that many people aren't willing to give it a chance, or think that simply because it's a story that you can make fun of (and it's true, you can -- some parts of it are pretty ridiculous, and in a way they are supposed to be!) that it means you also can't take it seriously. Which IS wrong.

If you want you can copypasta what I just wrote and show it to your friend, but it may or may not convince him/her. For those who are unwilling to get into Umineko, if you really want to try, you might be best advised to wait until it's over and then try to get them to watch it all at once.

Lemons · 2009-12-04, 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChibiBear

That's weird... But the Higurashi question arcs didn't make much more sense than Umineko's, we just haven't seen Umineko's answer arcs yet. Tell him it will make more sense then

P.S. How can you possibly compare Umineko to Yugioh... =.=

I think he'll have given up on it by then. His tirade on it = NO.

Spoiler:

June 1983 · 2009-12-04, 21:56

How on earth does he know about Chiru? Is he reading spoilers? Right, because that's really going to help him make sense of the story when he doesn't even have a firm grasp on what's happened in the first four arcs ...

ChibiBear · 2009-12-04, 21:58

Like June 1983 (Awesome name btw) said, maybe it's just not the kinda anime for her... Out of my many friends who watch anime, only me and one other friend actually bother watching Higurashi/Umineko, the others gave up because they just didn't have the patience. Some/Most people watch anime for entertainment, but IMO, the point of watching Umineko is trying to solve the mystery, not just getting to the end and going: 'Well that was interesting.'

Archon_Wing · 2009-12-04, 22:01

If one is gonna have a negative mindset apporaching something, then it doesn't matter. It's their loss, really.

Spoiler for higurashi:

Lemons · 2009-12-04, 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by June 1983

How on earth does he know about Chiru? Is he reading spoilers? Right, because that's really going to help him make sense of the story when he doesn't even have a firm grasp on what's happened in the first four arcs ...

A user told him of it by curiousity. Despite this, he learned of Chiru while watching the anime in the third arc.

Jan-Poo · 2009-12-04, 23:21

I think you won't change his mind so easily at this point, beside it looks like he's watching the full anime anyway. Plus I must say that while the anime isn't so bad it isn't really as good as the novel and many things have been lost in the process.
In addition there are some premises that might not make everyone happy, for example the fact that this story doesn't give you any guarantee that the mystery is solvable. And later on you learn that you can't trust anything. You start by thinking that magic scenes are false and everything else is correct, and then you learn that even what it isn't blatantly magic could be false. Some people firmly believe that there are rules to determine what can be considered true and what can be shown as fake, but sadly we do not know those rules.
There are theories and theories over other theories, those who believe that magic exists, those who believe magic exists on certain degrees and those who believe it doesn't exist at all. Red should be considered a certain fact, and yet there are people who question that.

I can well understand that someone can feel confused, but that's how this story is supposed to be. Now it all depends on the answer Ryukishi will give us in the end. If everything will have a perfect explanation in the end Ryukishi will demonstrate to be a true genius, in the other case it's gonna be an epic fail, however from Ryukishi's interviews you can understand that he's got a very clear idea of what is happening in this story, and when he says that once you learn the truth you can replay the first episode and notice a lot of things that made clear he had everything in mind since the beginning, you can well hope that Ryukishi isn't going to disappoint us.

blaze0041 · 2009-12-05, 03:21

A rather stupid question, but...

Spoiler for ...:

k//eternal · 2009-12-05, 04:27

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...0&postcount=14

Qilin · 2009-12-05, 05:07

This is probably a hassle, but does anyone here have a complete list of the red truths used in EP2-4?
I'm in the mood for a little mental exercise right now...

Jan-Poo · 2009-12-05, 06:09

you can find them here: http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Text

BE careful though! It also contains the red truths of Ep5, so as soon as you see the title: "End of the golden witch" stop and don't scroll any further if you don't want to get spoiled

Qilin · 2009-12-05, 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

you can find them here: http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Text

BE careful though! It also contains the red truths of Ep5, so as soon as you see the title: "End of the golden witch" stop and don't scroll any further if you don't want to get spoiled

Oh thanks. Never knew there was an Umineko wiki (albeit a bit underdeveloped)...

KoiYuki · 2009-12-06, 00:40

Who drew the Umineko portraits? I can't seem to find the artist's name anywhere.

2009-12-03, 22:10	Link #662
Ferny :D Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Zombieland. >:3 Age: 28	Does anyone have the link to where I can download all of the sound novel's character sprites so far? Or even just some of them is fine, but if anyone has ALL of them, that'd be great~ __________________ Christian, otaku, writer, artist, gamer, and guitarist. :3

2009-12-04, 21:25	Link #663
Lemons Jazzy Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Nebraska	I have a question, seems somewhat a question of overview. Spoiler: My friend, seems to think that Umineko is a horrible anime. Now his reasons for this are "It throws random crap at the viewer" "It uses a repeated crux" or "The writing is horrible" Side fact: He still thinks Higurashi has better everything, and only very few flaws. My question is sort of opinionated/over critical. How can I convince my friend that Umineko's aspects aren't just random sense, and a rehash of restarting.

2009-12-04, 21:31	Link #664
ChibiBear Aim's Stalker ^_~ Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Australia Age: 29	If your friend liked Higurashi, shouldn't he be used to having 'random crap thrown'? The repeating thing is pretty much the same as Higurashi too right? IMO, the only huge difference is that in Higurashi, most of the stuff you see can be trusted (Damn you Keiichi), but in Umineko, you have to question everything you see. Just tell him it's part of the story and the end will be worth it __________________ Meow meow nano desu~ Nipah~

2009-12-04, 21:47	Link #667
ChibiBear Aim's Stalker ^_~ Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Australia Age: 29	That's weird... But the Higurashi question arcs didn't make much more sense than Umineko's, we just haven't seen Umineko's answer arcs yet. Tell him it will make more sense then P.S. How can you possibly compare Umineko to Yugioh... =.= __________________ Meow meow nano desu~ Nipah~

2009-12-04, 21:58	Link #671
ChibiBear Aim's Stalker ^_~ Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Australia Age: 29	Like June 1983 (Awesome name btw) said, maybe it's just not the kinda anime for her... Out of my many friends who watch anime, only me and one other friend actually bother watching Higurashi/Umineko, the others gave up because they just didn't have the patience. Some/Most people watch anime for entertainment, but IMO, the point of watching Umineko is trying to solve the mystery, not just getting to the end and going: 'Well that was interesting.' __________________ Meow meow nano desu~ Nipah~

2009-12-03, 21:32	Link #661
AmyElizzabeth Moo Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Iowa Age: 28	I already know what happens at the end

2009-12-04, 21:53	Link #668
June 1983 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Warwick, RI Age: 40	The thing is this ... if a person is not willing to buy into the concept of Umineko and get on the train and stay on it, then you're not going to be able to get them to get into the show. Unfortunately, I wouldn't say Umineko is one of those "wait and see and be amazed!!!!" shows. Maybe it's like that for people who are interested in being amazed, but if someone is totally resisting it, that is impossible. To enjoy Umineko and to be able to participate in solving the mystery (which in my opinion and many other people's as well is the main source of enjoyment in this story), you have to be prepared to 1) accept the "rules" of the game and be willing to play by them, 2) think about, question, and consider every piece of information you are given, and 3) actively try to make sense of what you are seeing -- without somehow trying to bend the story to your will of what kind of story you "think" it should be. A lot of people aren't willing to do that. Especially when watching an anime, because it's a medium which is more about instant gratification, partially because you have to be content with getting 20 minutes of story once a week and if you don't get what you are looking for on a week by week basis you need a patience which many people don't have. It's funny because many of these requirements were also necessary for watching "Higurashi". But I think quite a lot of people came into the first season of Higurashi not watching it week by week but hearing about it later by word of mouth and watching it all at once, which is quite a different experience. Then they bought into its concept and were prepared to hold on through the tough periods in Kai. I think that and also the fact that a lot of people are prejudiced towards Umineko because of its association with Higurashi means that many people aren't willing to give it a chance, or think that simply because it's a story that you can make fun of (and it's true, you can -- some parts of it are pretty ridiculous, and in a way they are supposed to be!) that it means you also can't take it seriously. Which IS wrong. If you want you can copypasta what I just wrote and show it to your friend, but it may or may not convince him/her. For those who are unwilling to get into Umineko, if you really want to try, you might be best advised to wait until it's over and then try to get them to watch it all at once.

2009-12-04, 21:56	Link #670
June 1983 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Warwick, RI Age: 40	How on earth does he know about Chiru? Is he reading spoilers? Right, because that's really going to help him make sense of the story when he doesn't even have a firm grasp on what's happened in the first four arcs ...

2009-12-04, 23:21	Link #674
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	I think you won't change his mind so easily at this point, beside it looks like he's watching the full anime anyway. Plus I must say that while the anime isn't so bad it isn't really as good as the novel and many things have been lost in the process. In addition there are some premises that might not make everyone happy, for example the fact that this story doesn't give you any guarantee that the mystery is solvable. And later on you learn that you can't trust anything. You start by thinking that magic scenes are false and everything else is correct, and then you learn that even what it isn't blatantly magic could be false. Some people firmly believe that there are rules to determine what can be considered true and what can be shown as fake, but sadly we do not know those rules. There are theories and theories over other theories, those who believe that magic exists, those who believe magic exists on certain degrees and those who believe it doesn't exist at all. Red should be considered a certain fact, and yet there are people who question that. I can well understand that someone can feel confused, but that's how this story is supposed to be. Now it all depends on the answer Ryukishi will give us in the end. If everything will have a perfect explanation in the end Ryukishi will demonstrate to be a true genius, in the other case it's gonna be an epic fail, however from Ryukishi's interviews you can understand that he's got a very clear idea of what is happening in this story, and when he says that once you learn the truth you can replay the first episode and notice a lot of things that made clear he had everything in mind since the beginning, you can well hope that Ryukishi isn't going to disappoint us. __________________

2009-12-05, 03:21	Link #675
blaze0041 a.k.a. Flammenkrieg IT Support Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Down under...	A rather stupid question, but... Spoiler for ...: What is the gun used by the Ushiromiya adults? __________________ "Make sure you do a good job with your life's blueprint." - Kanna Makino

2009-12-05, 04:27	Link #676
k//eternal do you know ベアトリーチェ様? Join Date: Dec 2003 Age: 35	http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...0&postcount=14

2009-12-05, 05:07	Link #677
Qilin Romanticist Join Date: Aug 2009 Age: 33	This is probably a hassle, but does anyone here have a complete list of the red truths used in EP2-4? I'm in the mood for a little mental exercise right now... __________________ "There’s an up higher than up, but at the very top, down is all there is." Last edited by Qilin; 2009-12-05 at 05:08. Reason: Oh, no red truths in EP1...

2009-12-05, 06:09	Link #678
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	you can find them here: http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Text BE careful though! It also contains the red truths of Ep5, so as soon as you see the title: "End of the golden witch" stop and don't scroll any further if you don't want to get spoiled __________________

2009-12-06, 00:40	Link #680
KoiYuki Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: USA Age: 32	Who drew the Umineko portraits? I can't seem to find the artist's name anywhere.