(L) Sword Art Online - Light Novel Discussion

[Flere821]

Originally Posted by DurararaFTW

He DID consider straight up murdering Klein. Had the Sacred Dragon Alliance not shown he might have. We aren't suppose to agree with his decisions to abandon Klein at the start, nor stay solo for so long. His lying quite unambigiously got the Black Cats killed, he admits that he did kill a few of the Laughing Coffins in anger. I mean, yeah they were a PK guild but it is indicated that Klein and Asuna who were there too got by without killing their opponents.

In his defence, if Kirito didn't fight as fiercely as he did they would have been more casualties among the players who invaded Laughing Coffin's hideout. How much of this is Asuna placing Kirito on a pedestal is another matter though

[kivredia]

In which novel/chapter did they raid the Laughing Coffin's hideout? Somehow I completely missed it.

[Flere821]

Vol6, it's a flashback chapter. I don't think it's up on BakaTsuki yet?

[Hell_ping]

Originally Posted by Flere821

Vol6, it's a flashback chapter. I don't think it's up on BakaTsuki yet?

Spoiler for What ya know...:

"...Then, you're..."

"That's right, in terms of internet speak, I'm a so-called «Survivor of SAO». That Death Gun's the same too. Both him and I fought each other, and we tried to kill each other."

Kirito's eyes looked like they were looking afar in the distant past, moving about in mid-air.

"That guy was part of a Red guild called «Laughing Coffin». In SAO, we designate colors and call criminals «Orange Players», and thief guilds would be «Orange Guilds»...amongst them, those who revel in killing were called «Red Guilds». Those guilds...have a lot of people who enjoyed killing people."

"Bu-But...in that game, wouldn't it mean real death if your HP becomes zero...?"

"That's right, but they killed because of that reason...to certain players, killing was their greatest pleasure. Laughing Coffin was such a group. They killed other players in unprotected battlefields or mazes, took their money and equipment before killing them mercilessly. Of course, the ordinary players started to be wary of them, but these people still continued to think of new ways to kill, causing the number of victims to continue to rise."

"..."

"Thus, the ordinary players finally formed mass-crusades against them...and I was one of them. It was a crusade, but we didn't really need to kill them. We just wanted them to be unable to resist before sending them to jail. We tried all we could to find their base, gathered many high-leveled players who would not have any problems and launched our raid at midnight. However... I don't know how the info was leaked. The enemy had already set traps in the base and waited for us to enter...we finally managed to regroup ourselves, but in this abnormally chaotic battle...I..."

Kirito's body trembled violently again. He widened his eyes, and his breathing became harder.

"I personally killed two Laughing Coffin members. One by hacking him on the head with my sword...the other was a stab right in the heart. I only planned to lock them inside jail, but I forgot all about it and just lost myself...no, that was just an excuse. If I really wanted to, I could definitely stop my sword...but I could only continue to swing my sword in fear and anger, and to be honest, I'm no different from those guys. No, in a certain sense, my guilt's greater than them because..."

Kirito forcefully took a deep breath before exhaling, and silently continued,

"Because I forced myself to forget what I previously did. I killed another member a long time after I killed those two people...and once I returned back to the real world, I never thought of them. That was until I met Death Gun at the presidential area waiting dome..."

"...Then, Death Gun's part of that group you fought against...«Laughing Coffin»..."

"Yes. He should be one of the members who survived in the raid and was locked up by us. I still remember his presence and how he spoke. Just a little...a little more, and I can remember his name from back then..."

[Flere821]

Originally Posted by Teh_Ping

Spoiler for What ya know...:

"...Then, you're..."

"That's right, in terms of internet speak, I'm a so-called «Survivor of SAO». That Death Gun's the same too. Both him and I fought each other, and we tried to kill each other."

Kirito's eyes looked like they were looking afar in the distant past, moving about in mid-air.

"That guy was part of a Red guild called «Laughing Coffin». In SAO, we designate colors and call criminals «Orange Players», and thief guilds would be «Orange Guilds»...amongst them, those who revel in killing were called «Red Guilds». Those guilds...have a lot of people who enjoyed killing people."

"Bu-But...in that game, wouldn't it mean real death if your HP becomes zero...?"

"That's right, but they killed because of that reason...to certain players, killing was their greatest pleasure. Laughing Coffin was such a group. They killed other players in unprotected battlefields or mazes, took their money and equipment before killing them mercilessly. Of course, the ordinary players started to be wary of them, but these people still continued to think of new ways to kill, causing the number of victims to continue to rise."

"..."

"Thus, the ordinary players finally formed mass-crusades against them...and I was one of them. It was a crusade, but we didn't really need to kill them. We just wanted them to be unable to resist before sending them to jail. We tried all we could to find their base, gathered many high-leveled players who would not have any problems and launched our raid at midnight. However... I don't know how the info was leaked. The enemy had already set traps in the base and waited for us to enter...we finally managed to regroup ourselves, but in this abnormally chaotic battle...I..."

Kirito's body trembled violently again. He widened his eyes, and his breathing became harder.

"I personally killed two Laughing Coffin members. One by hacking him on the head with my sword...the other was a stab right in the heart. I only planned to lock them inside jail, but I forgot all about it and just lost myself...no, that was just an excuse. If I really wanted to, I could definitely stop my sword...but I could only continue to swing my sword in fear and anger, and to be honest, I'm no different from those guys. No, in a certain sense, my guilt's greater than them because..."

Kirito forcefully took a deep breath before exhaling, and silently continued,

"Because I forced myself to forget what I previously did. I killed another member a long time after I killed those two people...and once I returned back to the real world, I never thought of them. That was until I met Death Gun at the presidential area waiting dome..."

"...Then, Death Gun's part of that group you fought against...«Laughing Coffin»..."

"Yes. He should be one of the members who survived in the raid and was locked up by us. I still remember his presence and how he spoke. Just a little...a little more, and I can remember his name from back then..."

My bad I'm not up to date with SAO's progress on BT >.<

Here, have my impression of the 1st chapter of Chinese translation of Alicization Running as compensation (YES, it was done still reading this through right now, might post more tomorrow)

Spoiler for Impression of 1st chapter:

In the 1st chapter alone I've probably said "HOLY ****" a dozen times... if this is the last arc of the SAO LNs I wouldn't mind, as I doubt later events can top this arc.

Major events:
-Kirito's revealed to be 'kidnapped' by the JSDF in making combat AIs (basically what Project Alicization was about). They took Kirito as the chance to do so arisen from Johnny Black's attack, replacing the ambulance personnel with their people. Kirito's importance was his influence in-game can make the AIs who cannot deviate from the Underworld's laws into breaking them, something that the researchers can't do. Ironically it was breaking the rules to save another life, in direct contrast with their original problem of getting AIs around the law of not killing people. Major back-story about SAOverse's US, and how unmanned weapons developed from the US citizen's distaste of soldier casualties in Iraq, leading on from Vietnam and other military involvements. AIs are developed because citizens don't want to see human casualties.
In the beginning, JSDF wanted a independent weapon source from the US so they won't rely on foreign influence too much. VR was suggested like Kirito thought to train soldiers, but after SAO beta started true AIs was thought to be eventually possible. When players were stuck in game preparations were made for this project.

-Fluctlight is the device/program involved in this project. Supposedly capable of making a copy of a person's soul. Copies however are unable to handle they're just a copy, with the same memories and everything of the original. Human babies had their mind copied and using the first 16 as a base, each eventually paired into 4 pairs and giving birth to ten kids in each set, which eventually formed a population of 80,000.
The Seed is used to form the Underworld, and can accelerate 1000x the normal time. It's not the brain nerves being accelerated but the consciousness/soul, so supposedly no negatively effects like burning the brain out. Getting the kids to adulthood, 18 years, in Real time was only 980 hours (approximately one week).

Oh, and the ruling inhabitants in Underworld managed to access the 'laws of the world', manipulate what laws people can or cannot break. It's equivalent to game characters able to hack into your computer and make changes to the game. Skynet, anyone? >.>

-Asuna sneaked into the heavily defended R&D department/base by asking for help from the person who developed the Medicuboid (Kayaba's assistant). Found her address from Kirito's files. Said person was asked to be part of the project many times by Raase, and Asuna disguised herself as her assistant. Hacked the photo earlier and the real assistant is currently on holiday.

- Kayaba may still be alive. o_O His assistant didn't get charged with helping Kayaba because he implanted a bomb inside her that would blow her head off from the neck up. The assistant kept the 'bomb' as a keepsake, knowing Kayaba would have never used the bomb on her and only did that as a excuse so when the game is over she won't be blamed by the authorities. Final line in the 1st chapter suggested Kayaba's mind is in there and can still influence things, heating up and giving her a burn.

[ShiroiRyu]

Guys, i never read a light novel but it's that good to read on a computer ?
In same time, it's not difficult for someone who is not a american or english guy ?
And finally, from the spoilers, Sword Art Online is not the name of the game but just of the Light Novel ?
I don't funny understand all of the things. ^^
How many games they have ?

[Netto Azure]

Originally Posted by Flere821

Spoiler for Impression of 1st chapter:

In the 1st chapter alone I've probably said "HOLY ****" a dozen times... if this is the last arc of the SAO LNs I wouldn't mind, as I doubt later events can top this arc.

Major events:
-Kirito's revealed to be 'kidnapped' by the JSDF in making combat AIs (basically what Project Alicization was about). They took Kirito as the chance to do so arisen from Johnny Black's attack, replacing the ambulance personnel with their people. Kirito's importance was his influence in-game can make the AIs who cannot deviate from the Underworld's laws into breaking them, something that the researchers can't do. Ironically it was breaking the rules to save another life, in direct contrast with their original problem of getting AIs around the law of not killing people. Major back-story about SAOverse's US, and how unmanned weapons developed from the US citizen's distaste of soldier casualties in Iraq, leading on from Vietnam and other military involvements. AIs are developed because citizens don't want to see human casualties.
In the beginning, JSDF wanted a independent weapon source from the US so they won't rely on foreign influence too much. VR was suggested like Kirito thought to train soldiers, but after SAO beta started true AIs was thought to be eventually possible. When players were stuck in game preparations were made for this project.

-Fluctlight is the device/program involved in this project. Supposedly capable of making a copy of a person's soul. Copies however are unable to handle they're just a copy, with the same memories and everything of the original. Human babies had their mind copied and using the first 16 as a base, each eventually paired into 4 pairs and giving birth to ten kids in each set, which eventually formed a population of 80,000.
The Seed is used to form the Underworld, and can accelerate 1000x the normal time. It's not the brain nerves being accelerated but the consciousness/soul, so supposedly no negatively effects like burning the brain out. Getting the kids to adulthood, 18 years, in Real time was only 980 hours (approximately one week).

Oh, and the ruling inhabitants in Underworld managed to access the 'laws of the world', manipulate what laws people can or cannot break. It's equivalent to game characters able to hack into your computer and make changes to the game. Skynet, anyone? >.>

-Asuna sneaked into the heavily defended R&D department/base by asking for help from the person who developed the Medicuboid (Kayaba's assistant). Found her address from Kirito's files. Said person was asked to be part of the project many times by Raase, and Asuna disguised herself as her assistant. Hacked the photo earlier and the real assistant is currently on holiday.

- Kayaba may still be alive. o_O His assistant didn't get charged with helping Kayaba because he implanted a bomb inside her that would blow her head off from the neck up. The assistant kept the 'bomb' as a keepsake, knowing Kayaba would have never used the bomb on her and only did that as a excuse so when the game is over she won't be blamed by the authorities. Final line in the 1st chapter suggested Kayaba's mind is in there and can still influence things, heating up and giving her a burn.

Spoiler for Reaction to Alicization Impressions:

SAO is now definitely a masterpiece in my heart. To go through such themes of warfare applications and yet at the same time not make it sound preachy? Making the Underworld as an engaging society? Darn the author truly is a great writer.

Plus HELL YEAH it's Asuna's turn to effin rescue Kirito. Love how the author is going back and giving nods to ALO.

As for Kayaba being alive...no it's obviously his Fluctlight from SAO. He fried his brain to copy it remember?

@Shiroi: I read on my Tablet. Its more natural that way.
The English is straightforward, although the translators did great in conveying the authors engaging writing style.

Yes SAO is both the game and Light Novel title. One rationale is that it all started with SAO so Subsiquent arcs are called SAO: Fairy Dance, SAO: Phantom Bullet etc.

[Flere821]

Just went and finished the Volume. Here's the rest of my comments:

Spoiler for Alicization Running Comments:

Chapter 2:
Sword fight tournament. Kirito being a Boss and steamrollering his opponents.

Chapter 3:
-Kirito knows about his tendencies to attract girls, and is going out of his way to not get any more xD

-He's also conflicted, Underworld is not another reality to him - one day he will have to leave to go back to Asuna, Suguha and others, but that would mean leaving behind the people he knows here.

-Sword Skills in Underworld seem to only reach 2 hits max. Kirito's skills is way above theirs, but he don't have weapons to carry them out or have the strength needed. 4 chained hits is the most he can do. Explained in setting that due to the Laws of the world you win after first successful hit, so chained attack might kill someone by accident, so most people don't train multiple hit attacks.

-The Elucidator, black blade of SAO, was the 50th floor Boss Drop. Damn, Kirito, you're good to be able to get that on a especially strong boss o_O Kirito got himself a new Black Blade here in Underworld.

- *spittakes* THE F@#K?!! The 'Incarnate System' of Accel World is here? Kirito brought plants back from the dead using that system. When by all means the plant shpuld not have survived and the Laws of the world said they could not grow in that nation. Kirito had to pray for a entire year to get it to bud, weighing his belief in it will work against the rest of the world's disbelief. We also have a unknown 'spiritual adviser' a la Saffron Blossom of Accel World helping Kirito.

In retrospect, IS also show up in Kirito's final fight in this volume. His opponent's blade and skill contained the collected history of his noble house and their defeated opponents, and Kirito poured his memories and experiences about Aincrad and the people he cared about (ie, Asuna and others) into his blade. Also helped when the blade is backed by 300+ years of history, from the tree that's said to be there since the beginning of the world. Steadfast willpower that can weather anything his opponent can throw at him.

[Netto Azure]

Originally Posted by Flere821

Just went and finished the Volume. Here's the rest of my comments:

Spoiler for Alicization Running Comments:

Chapter 2:
Sword fight tournament. Kirito being a Boss and steamrollering his opponents.

Chapter 3:
-Kirito knows about his tendencies to attract girls, and is going out of his way to not get any more xD

-He's also conflicted, Underworld is not another reality to him - one day he will have to leave to go back to Asuna, Suguha and others, but that would mean leaving behind the people he knows here.

-Sword Skills in Underworld seem to only reach 2 hits max. Kirito's skills is way above theirs, but he don't have weapons to carry them out or have the strength needed. 4 chained hits is the most he can do. Explained in setting that due to the Laws of the world you win after first successful hit, so chained attack might kill someone by accident, so most people don't train multiple hit attacks.

-The Elucidator, black blade of SAO, is the 50th floor Boss Drop. Damn, Kirito, you're good to be able to get that on the especially strong boss o_O Kirito got himself a new Black Blade here in Underworld.

- *spittakes* THE F@#K?!! The 'Incarnate System' of Accel World is here? Kirito brought plants back from the dead using that system. When by all means the plant shpuld not have survived and the Laws of the world said they could not grow in that nation. Kirito had to pray for a entire year to get it to bud, weighing his belief in it will work against the rest of the world's disbelief.

Spoiler for More reactions:

- KiriAsu forever. Thank God for their steady relationship. Kirito is a shonen protagonist to be admired.
- AI's hacking is just amazing. Their growth is scary lol.
- He got Elucidator from one of the Quarter Floor Bosses? Geez, he truly is the Ace.
- Now we can say with certainty that SAO is chronologically the predecessor of Accel World. None of that parallel universe stuff.

Thanks for this. I've been waiting for summaries since the novel came out last week. Fuuuudddggeee if only I could help the translators with their shipping problems urgh...

[Deltaray]

Spoiler for reaction o.o:

So Asuna is officially badass, sneaking into defence forces building lol

[Sixth]

Hmmm...Underworld is another MMORPG, right?

[Flere821]

Originally Posted by Deltaray

Spoiler for reaction o.o:

So Asuna is officially badass, sneaking into defence forces building lol

Spoiler for Asuna & Yui:

To be fair, she had help getting assistance from the one who made Medicuboid and convincing her to help rescue Kirito, and have Yui (her daughter AI) hack her disguised photo into a university records.

That reminds me, Yui calls herself the old kind of AI that gives response depending on stimulus, rather than the Alicization AIs who can learn and adapt and basically a artificial human brain, but there are signs she's beginning to progress into the latter.

And Netto, I added something else about the Black Blade in my previous post.

EDIT: @ noobita:

Spoiler for Underworld:

No, it's a government military project designed to build AI soldiers. The Seed is used as a base however.

[kivredia]

Originally Posted by Netto Azure

Spoiler for Reaction to Alicization Impressions:

SAO is now definitely a masterpiece in my heart. To go through such themes of warfare applications and yet at the same time not make it sound preachy? Making the Underworld as an engaging society? Darn the author truly is a great writer.

Plus HELL YEAH it's Asuna's turn to effin rescue Kirito. Love how the author is going back and giving nods to ALO.

As for Kayaba being alive...no it's obviously his Fluctlight from SAO. He fried his brain to copy it remember?

@Shiroi: I read on my Tablet. Its more natural that way.
The English is straightforward, although the translators did great in conveying the authors engaging writing style.

Yes SAO is both the game and Light Novel title. One rationale is that it all started with SAO so Subsiquent arcs are called SAO: Fairy Dance, SAO: Phantom Bullet etc.

Can't wait for the translation.

Spoiler:

Asuna rescueing Kirito and being totally badass while doing it? Goddamn that sounds too good. Looking forward to chapters which are like SOA Arc with them as the focus.

[Netto Azure]

Originally Posted by noobita

Hmmm...Underworld is another MMORPG, right?

Naw it's Accel World MMORPG. With players, monsters and NPC's being near human like AI's.

Spoiler for Da sword:

I remember it from Volume. 9... But Eugeo is building up to be his rival so yeah.

Anyways his Sword is a manifestation of himself...I hope it carries him through. :-)

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Netto Azure

Spoiler for More reactions:

- Now we can say with certainty that SAO is chronologically the predecessor of Accel World. None of that parallel universe stuff.

Indeed we can. Some people will use that as proof for their stupid fan theories. -_-

And Underworld is definitly not a game.

Thanks for the summaries, Flere. :3

[novalysis]

What about Friendly A.Is? The Underworld seems to be an attempt to ensure that Military A.Is end up as Friendly A.Is. Perhaps we should be thankful Kirito is inside.

Spoiler for Volume 10 Questions:

Additionally, what about the civilian applications of Alicization technology? Surely the implications extend way beyond the military, and to the Economy itself, arguably the foundation of any nation's Political and Military might.

Also, did Asuna find a way to make it into the Underworld too?

I think the problem with the Accel World theory is that A.I technology, as far as we know doesn't seem all that advanced, considering the state it is in by Alicization in SAO.

Truly, Kirito is coming of age at the start of humanity's technological singularity.

And UW Smells of Epicness.

[Wild Goose]

Spoiler for My comments on the revalations:

So the JSDF kidnapped Kirito to use him to make AIs. I guess someone was watching Stand Alone Complex and realised that spontaneous AI development due to natural oil isn't reliable.

Also,going by what has been shown, it looks like Asuna's getting a chance to shine. Awesome.

I'm a bit disappointed by the JSDF being this assholish though, i was hoping for a more positive portrayal. Ah, well, could be a splinter faction.

[Rovert10]

Originally Posted by Netto Azure

Spoiler for More reactions:

- KiriAsu forever. Thank God for their steady relationship. Kirito is a shonen protagonist to be admired.
- AI's hacking is just amazing. Their growth is scary lol.
- He got Elucidator from one of the Quarter Floor Bosses? Geez, he truly is the Ace.
- Now we can say with certainty that SAO is chronologically the predecessor of Accel World. None of that parallel universe stuff.

Thanks for this. I've been waiting for summaries since the novel came out last week. Fuuuudddggeee if only I could help the translators with their shipping problems urgh...

Nope still seperate universes in the author's words.
They stay that way till the author gives a definate statement.

I think the author likes to tease us with this though.

[novalysis]

Perhaps the JSDF did ask him directly in the Underworld. It's possible to sell the idea to him, if you told him that the aim was to cultivate friendly A.Is.

Since A.I technology is inevitable at this stage, the best chance is to manage that emerging technology, and ensure that the sentient that humanity makes do not turn on their makers (in Halo parlance, go rampant). Ultimately, the descendants of Alice and Yui may well be running entire cities down to the smallest detail.

Besides, every nation arguably are developing their own A.Is for both Civil and Military uses. And A.Is can't be more destructive than nukes already are. Japan needs it's own A.Is, lest it be left in the dust by the likes of South Korea and China, or the Western Nations.

In SAO, the Singularity has already begun. I would imagine that merely possessing Yui would make Kirito and Asuna's lives very interesting....

Personal A.Is, anyone?

[willx]

Wow, this is turning out very exciting. I'm so looking forward to the rest of this arc. Has it been definitively stated anywhere that Alicization is the final arc or not?