2011-07-17, 16:32
|
Link #3301 | |
|
:3c
Join Date: Jun 2010
|
Quote:
And yeah, Katherine's definitely just a real brat LOL She's pretty creepy. She reminds me a lot of Mariemaia, actually.... I wonder if she's ever going to pop up, but I'm starting to think maybe not, since even Dorothy and Une have only been mentioned. |
|
|
|
|
2011-07-17, 17:00
|
Link #3302 | |
|
Shall we?
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Europe
|
Quote:
 As for Mariemaia, I don't know. We had the most random of people mentioned like Sylvia or the Clarks *cue Superman theme* and considering FT might be dragged out for years, it's not out of the realm of possibility that she'll pop up sometime. And even if she doesn't, we can be sure that at the very least she'll be related to someone. xD By the way, there's one little thing about the PPP that has me wonder. Everyone going to Mars has been injected with that stuff except for Heero, because he was frozen in a capsule and is thus the only one who can kill Relena, right? Thing is, Relena was frozen, too. So unless she was given the PPP as well (which would presumably result in a very weird, yet somehow amusing relationship with Heero in a few MC years), shouldn't she be able to just kill herself? You know, take a leaf out of Heero's book and go for suicide? It would kill the drama but, umm, yeah. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
2011-07-17, 17:43
|
Link #3303 | |
|
Joseph Defense Squad
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mars
|
Am I alone in liking Quaterine more for being an annoying little brat?
Somehow I have a soft spot for female characters that are snotty and rude. Doesn't apply to boys though. Sexist, I know xD (and I'm a girl) other points: - yayyy, Noin <3 Seriously, if Hilde isn't dead, it's understandable she wouldn't want Duo, what with thinking about someone else's wife like that. - that said, I never really got the 3x9 fandom, I thought 9xSally would be fun. But actually, 2x9, from Duo's POV always made sense to me to the point that I could see it happening, purely based on Duo's attraction- if for nothing else then because of the obvious similarity to Hilde. Who pretty much looks like she's at minimum related to Noin  Same with one-sided 2xRelena. He just wants everything that moves.So imo it's pretty funny that this was written into the novel. Also: I'm in love with Tallgeese Heaven, and I wish that there will be an illustration real soon. Still, I can't stop laughing at the whole "Wind of Cyrene" thing, even though it's old by now. Especially in combination with: Quote:
Plus, Zechs really still has issues, still calling himself ridiculous names, and impersonating angels with dazzling lights and gold, and wings, and a HALO, for christ's sake!!! He'll start sparkling one day very soon, and it's only downhill from there.... |
|
|
|
|
|
2011-07-17, 21:00
|
Link #3304 | ||||
|
:3c
Join Date: Jun 2010
|
Quote:
Because, as we know- he's the one who can make the impossible possible Quote:
(That's why I love Jr, too)Quote:
She ships 1xRx2 as an OT3, iirc. Quote:
|
||||
|
|
|
|
2011-07-17, 21:31
|
Link #3305 | |
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
|
Quote:
I don't mind Duo Sr. flirting with everyone, though he's already an old man. And, his narration is actually entertaining. |
|
|
|
|
|
2011-07-17, 21:38
|
Link #3306 | ||||
|
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
|
"You too, I'm glad you haven't changed." Oh, Relena dear, YOU HAVE NO IDEA.
 Anyway. Thanks, Kitsoru and mirei for clarifying! ^_^ Quote:
Duo. No wonder Hilde broke it off with you!! XD Oh yeah, I remember Duo calling Relena "good-looking" at one point in the English dub. I have to admit, that irked me quite a bit. Not that I disagree, I think Relena's pretty. But I was like, mehh, these dubbers shouldn't have done that because in the Japanese version, he only said "ojou-san" or something. Changing it like THAT just seemed like he was hitting on her. Oh well, FT just vindicated the English dub. Now I know for sure. Duo does acknowledge good looks when he sees it. Lol. If it's women's, that is. XD Quote:
Quote:
 Anyway, I feel ya. I dunno, I guess I've always liked the girls more than the guys. IMO, some of the guys didn't treat their female counterparts the way they deserved, you know? And I've always hated how it seemed like the chicks were absolutely fine with it. I don't think Sumizawa's aware that he could be quite the misogynistic writer at times.  So yeah, I feel the same way, especially for Heero and Relena. I don't think I'd learn to love Heero as much as I do if it weren't for his leading lady, ngl. Quote:
|
||||
|
|
|
|
2011-07-17, 21:53
|
Link #3307 | |||||
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
|
Quote:
 EDIT: I completely forgot about Hilde shunning Duo. You're right, it could be just that. >_> Quote:
Quote:
And no, Zechs. Just. NO. Call yourself all the names you want just lay off the damn sparkles!!!  --- EDIT: Quote:
Quote:
There were times when the girls gave them a piece of their mind (or fist - O HAI Cathrine!)... Not much, but at least... there were moments. *sigh* Last edited by Mareike; 2011-07-17 at 23:23. Reason: Forgot to mention something that I forgot about the novel... and I quoted the wrong the person... |
|||||
|
|
|
|
2011-07-18, 00:17
|
Link #3308 | |
|
AHH IT'S A GUNDAM--*boom*
Join Date: Mar 2011
|
Quote:
Thanks for the translations and the discussion! It's all very confusing but fun at the same time. ^^;; |
|
|
|
|
|
2011-07-18, 06:52
|
Link #3309 | ||||
|
Joseph Defense Squad
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mars
|
Quote:
If she had a sweet, Quatre- like personality, and was a nice little ojou-chan who plays the violin, she'd probably be unnoticeable and boring.Ooooh Thing is, I can't see Relena agreeing to it at all. She'd probably be all "sigh- not again, Duo..."Despite all his interest in girls, I don't imagine he'd be very successful. They'd all turn him down every time- except Hilde, who for some reason would have him. Well, until she got fed up too that is Quote:
Quote:
Though it happens in a lot of Gundam shows (actually pretty much all of them, with a few exceptions maybe), the girls always have to take a backseat to the guy's abilities/machinery- even if they start out as "strong pilots". And they think it's normal. That might've been fine in the 70ies, but it isn't now. In recent years, how many females had piloting abilities equal to or superior to the guys and weren't just piloting for eye-candy reasons while actually being mainly complementary to the guys or fulfilling other roles? Arguably none in Wing, unless you count Noin. Of course the roles they DO play are important in their own right, but a real kick-ass girl who doesn't need rescuing or support at some point is so rare in this show. But this is a whole other discussion... Quote:
I would, with a husband like that, and I don't care how pretty he thinks he is! |
||||
|
|
|
|
2011-07-18, 07:06
|
Link #3310 | |
|
Mama there goes that man!
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
|
|
|
|
2011-07-19, 01:31
|
Link #3311 | ||||
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As for Zechs... Can't be helped. Noin's always been generous towards him. >_> I mean even during those times when she disagreed with his decisions/actions, more often than not it all came down to... "ok, fine, whatever you want." Thank goodness she put her foot down by the end of EW. Last edited by Mareike; 2011-07-19 at 03:34. |
||||
|
|
|
|
2011-07-19, 06:49
|
Link #3312 | ||||
|
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
|
Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I think all the chicks in Wing are unquestionably badass. None of them can ever be considered a grunt and I never saw any of them taking a backseat for anyone. Boys or no boys, the show needed them. Lead character or supporting, they fulfilled their roles well. Heero had a massive influence on Relena at first but later when she matured, she clearly had her own, untainted, opinion about the war. Hence, the naivete of her (early) ideals and beliefs. But her stance in Wing wasn't fixated on Heero's. She can and will do what she wants once she's made up her mind about it and no one could tell (or manipulate) her to do differently, unless they can prove her doing it another way really is the better option and it is in the best interest of everyone, too. As for Noin, sure, she was heaps attached to Zechs but with or without him, the show needed her. Relena needed her. The Gundam Pilots needed her. Lady Une started off as Treize's "submissive" right-hand woman but after her character development, she stood independently. And Sally, what a woman. She can actually enjoy a conversation with Wu Fei! Although Catherine was the only chick who didn't get "involved" in the war, Trowa owes her the most for his character development. And damn, Dorothy. Probably the only character I know who didn't even appear until a little later in the second half of her show and yet made quite a lasting impact, both on the characters and the story. I guess the only chick I can criticise is Hilde because she was the opposite of Une. She started off independently but later got fixated on Duo. Whether she redeemed herself or not by infiltrating Libra to help the Gundam Pilots is debatable.Anyway, what am I babbling about here? My point is, a female character in a Gundam show doesn't need to pilot a suit (and be equally competent or better in it than the males) so that she can qualify to enter the badass department. I mean, I know a certain Gundam series or two that had female Gundam Pilots but man they pissed me off to death I think it's an insult to compare them to Wing chicks.  But that doesn't mean it's okay to write or show the male characters mistreating them, either. One of my biggest frustrations over Wing is that the chicks were so badass, a lot of fans don't think certain guys in the show treated their female counterparts poorly. (Thank heavens there was that Teddy bear in the end, Heero redeemed himself. Who knew he could be sweet and thoughtful, eh? But Zechs... ack! That man was hopeless.) Some do notice the mistreatment but they're not bothered by it because to them, the chicks' badass-ness compensates for it anyway. Not to me, though. If the ladies were badass, all the more reason why the guys should treat them properly!Quote:
Also, every once in a while, a lot of the characters needed rescuing and support anyway. Male and female, both. Sally rescued a fellow female character once, Noin. Or was it the opposite? Une saved Treize from Libra's main canon, Duo rescued Heero from Sally (not that Heero needed it that time, Sally was harmless) and vice versa. And let's not forget the emotional stabilisation and support Trowa provided Quatre so that he'd come back to Team Kind-Hearted again. Which their shippers interpret as his way of showing his fellow Gundam Pilot his Tru Lurv. Being rescued or getting support every now and then doesn't strip anyone off their badass-ness if they really are badass... which the Wing girls are. Quote:
Quote:
He's quite the flirt but I doubt she's his type. I can see Trowa or Quatre falling for her... but not Duo. I dunno, I'm weird lol. Although, I understand why people would call it one-sided when they see the two being shipped to each other. I distinctly remember three occasions where they had an exchange. Duo did all of the talking and Relena was just like "Oh, cool." *turns to Heero* XD
|
||||
|
|
|
|
2011-07-19, 08:51
|
Link #3313 | |||
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
|
Quote:
I remember something about Heero's motto of living life in accordance with his feelings. I think that's why he is able show bits and pieces of affection towards Relena. He may not show it much, but at least he is able to act on them every once in a while. :3 As for Zechs... *kicks Zechs in the head* In Noin's own words, he's got too many secrets and he needs to open up. I think he's the type to show his care in VERY discrete ways. Or at least in thought. That's a really striking difference between those two ace pilots - Heero and Zechs. They've experienced all these tragedies in their lives but they handled their losses differently. Quote:
 Also, it was Noin who rescued Sally. That scene was downright badass. Quote:
|
|||
|
|
|
|
2011-07-19, 11:04
|
Link #3314 | |
|
Joseph Defense Squad
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mars
|
Quote:
I didn't mean that Wing girls (or Gundam girls in general) aren't BADASS in the respective role they are fulfilling or because of their personalities or anything. I was talking about the lack of competent female pilots (or competent pilots who only ever get crappy grunt suits, or the guy's leftovers) in Gundam shows, which is a completely different can of worms that I don't necessarily want to open... But in no way would I dispute that Wing girls are badass and probably more important than the guys, actually- because let's face it, in real life it's the politicians and speakers that get things done, the soldiers are "just" the ones who take care of the practical execution. So basically, I totally agree with your analysis of the girls, so I won't bore you with agreeing on everything in length Let me just illustrate my original point for a second, bear with me: Obviously badass doesn't need you in a pilot suit. What I don't particularly appreciate about Gundam in general is that female pilots are almost never on-par with their male counterparts in terms of ability AND suit- and usually it's not really relevant in the end that they are pilots, as the important fights are between guys. Which is pretty misogynistic imo. Obviously it's a shounen- series, but somehow girl's skills are mostly presented as inferior, while they have other roles instead (which are equally or even more important though). And this irks me a little every time. Of course there are a few exceptions but they are rare and far in between, and sure there are excellent pilots among the girls, but they rarely get to be in the spotlight. --- Phew. That said, I actually just wanted to agree with what you said about the guys mistreating the girls Not dispute that they aren't badass because they don't pilot anything, or that they need to be pilot to be badass. They don't. I was just criticizing the female pilots because I find it pretty irksome that they are 90% of the time inferior to the males, or don't exist. |
|
|
|
|
|
2011-07-19, 14:29
|
Link #3315 | ||||
|
Shall we?
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Europe
|
Quote:
Quote:
Heero and Relena on the other hand have known each other for hardly a year, yet half their time they spend saying each other's name or rescuing each other. Or leaving birthday gifts on shuttles. As far as showing affection goes, Heero is leagues ahead of Zechs, which isn't really difficult but anyway. But maybe it's just Relena? After all, she was hugged by Zechs, whereas Noin was only helped out of her MS by him. Quote:
 Are you serious? Une handed Wu Fei's butt to him in a crappy Leo (at first), Sally and Noin wrecked havoc on OZ in only two Pisces (or was it Cancer?) suits and Dorothy almost killed four Gundam Pilots with only Mobile Dolls. Even Hilde, a greenhorn in MS battle, managed to fend off MDs in a crappy Space Leo to allow Duo to infiltrate the Lunar base. It's just that the women in Wing never got their hands on Tallgeeses or Gundams. But the fact that they were still able to keep up with the guys in grunt suits definitely bears testimony to their strength and skill. And let's not forget that the Gundam pilots are highly trained professionals. Actually, we can make a comparison... Mei Lan and Zechs piloting the Tallgeese; the former managed to fight an entire battle before getting killed because she took a direct hit for her hubby, unlike the latter who was lucky to just get out of the fight without kicking the bucket. Okay, one can argue if that makes her more skilled but fact is, she lasted far longer than anyone else piloting that thing. And everyone else was male, older and a trained soldier. So yeah. Quote:
Second, why don't you just say "Lunamaria" and be done with it? A ZAFT redcoat, which supposedly means she belongs to the elite, who can't even hit the dang target practice let alone an escaping shuttle and deems it necessary to walk around in skimping miniskirts. And when everyone gets shiny, new Gundams, who's the odd one out? Of course her. All she got were Shinn's leftovers. At least in Wing the women had other roles they had to fulfill. The only one of them who was an experienced MS pilot was Noin and I'll eat my shoe if she isn't considered on par with the guys. If you can fight 250 enemies in an outdated, space MS while the others prance around in Gundams, you rule. Still, I agree. I'd like to see a woman among the main pilots sometime. Too much testosterone is getting boring. |
||||
|
|
|
|
2011-07-19, 16:05
|
Link #3316 | ||
|
AHH IT'S A GUNDAM--*boom*
Join Date: Mar 2011
|
Quote:
Quote:
I'm just afraid of some of things people already mentioned. I haven't seen TOO many mecha/action anime so when someone mentions "female pilot" I really just think of Asuka from Evangelion, whom I hated because 1) she's psycho and 2) she was just there for eyecandy. That's hardly what I want to see for a well-characterized female pilot. Or, as you mentioned, we'll have a female pilot who's just completely incompetent. Don't even get me started on the characters of Gundam SEED, ugh... Do the creators just have trouble writing female characters, I wonder? o__O |
||
|
|
|
|
2011-07-19, 16:56
|
Link #3317 | |||||||
|
Joseph Defense Squad
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mars
|
Quote:
sigh...[QUOTEIkuzeMinna;3696480]As far as showing affection goes, Heero is leagues ahead of Zechs, which isn't really difficult but anyway. But maybe it's just Relena? After all, she was hugged by Zechs, whereas Noin was only helped out of her MS by him. [/QUOTE]It's sort of sad when you are described as less affectionate than a guy who is arguably emotionally retarded himself... xD Poor Zechs. Well, at least he makes good-looking offspring, I guess... Quote:
Girls in Gundam normally either: - have very good skills, but usually no suits to match this/ just grunt suits (examples: Noin, Soma, Sochie, even Haman etc) or - no/lower skills, but superior suits (pretty much every girl in Seed/Destiny, can't think of any exceptions right now, Louise, Nina etc) It's rare to find both (can't actually think of an example), which kind of means that they are never fully appreciated for what they can do. To sum it up: I know there are a lot of skilled girls out there, the niggle is with how they never seem to get their hands on the superior equipment and consequently aren't in the spotlight, leaving their skills a little under appreciated. Quote:
Apart from that, yes, that's my point. I guess it can't be avoided, as it's a shounen series (and to be fair guys get the same kind of treatment in pretty much every magical girl anime out there), but I'm sure the occasional good pilot with a good suit wouldn't hurt. Some hopes for Quaterine. Quote:
Followed by Cagalli (Kira's leftovers, Mwu's leftovers... heck, she even willingly donates her new, shiny suit to Mwu), even Stellar is a big bundle of ineptitude. Even Nina and Louise don't look as bad when compared to the Seed girls. Prime examples of "good suit, but low skills" Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Arguably, Asuka appeared like a strong girl, until, well, she wasn't anymore. We all know the story That said, Shinji is hardly more likeable, Rei is just weird in a different way, and well. Basically, EVA is a bit special, I guess. Can I ask, who did you like out of the EVA bunch? I'm pretty sure that yes, Gundam writers so far have always had trouble writing girls, and I'm not sure what the cause of that is. Didn't one of them even mention this in an interview or something? I believe that was one of the staff for Wing, even...?! As for good examples of female pilots- well, Klan from Macross comes to mind spontaneously. I will try to think of some more and edit. |
|||||||
|
|
|
|
2011-07-19, 21:28
|
Link #3318 | |
|
AHH IT'S A GUNDAM--*boom*
Join Date: Mar 2011
|
Quote:
Who did I LIKE out of the Eva bunch?? *tears hair out* I only watched it because it was considered a "classic" and I'm not afraid to say that I hated the characters and the story. x___x I apologize if I offend any Eva fans here but it was one of the most frustrating and unsatisfying anime I've ever watched... Ahem. My rant is done. Back on topic. That would make sense. I'll try to watch Macross sometime. =) Maybe the writers/director didn't think it would be necessary to develop the females very much? I can understand that it's an action series and you want the focus to be on the wars, the battles, and the gundams...but the guys were written well. Would it hurt to hire a few female writers for perspective?
|
|
|
|
|
|
2011-07-19, 22:12
|
Link #3319 | |
|
:3c
Join Date: Jun 2010
|
Quote:
Also, we need to keep in mind.. Gundam is a shounen series. It's made for boys to sell toys to boys. Even though there are major female demographics as with most any shounen series, they are aiming things towards primarily boys. There's a reason MOST shounen series don't have women as their primary protagonists. A female main character pilot in a main series feature isn't going to happen anytime soon, for that reason- but as we've mentioned with SEED and 00 and in WING ITSELF there have already been female pilots, but they will never be the main focus. AC has already had one female main protagonist pilot, though: Tiel Noembreux. (Though yes I think Japanese male writers in general have issues writing women but that's a rant for another thread :x) |
|
|
|
|
|
2011-07-20, 03:19
|
Link #3320 | ||
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
|
Quote:
Quote:
In Episode 4, 6 tells 9: "Don't get too attached or parting will hurt." In Episode 5, 9 whispers: "Open up, Zechs. You're hiding far too many secrets." While it's no doubt that he valued Noin, it could be that he never allowed himself to get so involved nor to be open about how he feels because he had a personal mission to see through. Romance was not a priority. The thing is, though, they still trust each other a hell of a lot. But you know, 12 years later, I'm still wondering what the eff the saber-tapping scene was all about. Sure, I found it cute back then (still do), but I still couldn't get what it was supposed to be, if it was to recall something in their past or what... ( I read somewhere that it was an invitation to do something...) The novelization didn't even bother explaining it. It just said the clanging was as if to replace Noin's words.  Speaking of the novels, something else got me wondering. There's something there that's always struck me odd about the two: Spoiler:
Zechs, in her living room. Noin, clad only in her bathrobe.  They may have grown up together but, IDK, that much level of comfort is rather suspicious...Spoiler:
And yet again in her private quarters, just after she's changed clothes. As for Relena, she's still his baby sister after all. IDK why, though, but that hug didn't strike me as being affectionate of him... Maybe I should watch that scene again. Last edited by Mareike; 2011-07-20 at 03:27. Reason: Wording |
||
|
|
|
 |
| Tags |
| frozen teardrop, glory of the losers, gundam wing |
|
|
