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Old 2021-07-31, 09:59   Link #3601
Tactics
Haven't You Heard?
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Yami~ View Post
This development is probably lame and weak but this it getting too real for me
I found it opposite on Ishigami part with reveal of how back then Ishigami turned out decent enough to be recognized by soccer team.

First time Ishigami flashback happens, he is treated awful because he's random guy that punch the popular guy so he looks like creep.
He did so because he always have that sense of justice deep inside, which true to why Shirogane personally picked him as treasurer: you can trust him even if he doesn't looks like it.
Now he's actually decent on sports to begin with and playing soccer. Like, how so? Usually that kind of student won't have issue on social standing, and found him suddenly gave up on it weird even if you're not competing in school league. Not to mention people that once active at sport, especially team ones, shouldn't find issue recollecting one once having fun with it but Ishigami during school festival acting like that was his first time actually doing something as a team.

Its also funny how imbalance the current situation is.

The glasses girl taking all the blame because she's going "My friend is not good enough, she didn't deserve him" while all this time Iino just sit, having everything served to her yet it looks like many people here cherish her for that. Ultimately both didn't deserve victory. The glasses girl didn't deserve it because it all started by her own decision and should understand the best if that friend of her is unreliable at its finest. Iino didn't deserve it either because she never actually respect Ishigami as a person yet expecting him to consider her as equal, let alone this friend of hers that she doesn't seem to truly understand after all that time.
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Old 2021-07-31, 12:38   Link #3602
BWTraveller
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BTW, since people are complaining about there being a retcon concerning Ishigami's club affiliation, just where was it mentioned that he was on track and field? The only spot I found was "Thus, Ishigami Yu Closed His Eyes" part 3, and while the translators chose to translate the line as "you were the fastest in track", what was actually said was "you were the fastest guy in the club" with no mention of what club he was on, meaning it's entirely possible that he was chosen as anchor because he left all the other soccer players in the dust when it came to raw speed. If there was another spot that mentioned track and field specifically, that's fine, but I didn't see it.

As for him previously being "popular", not everyone who's on a popular team will necessarily be popular, just like not everyone with a pretty face or good grades or a prestigious background will. Just ask Osaragi. He was able to associate and have something that at the least he personally thought of as friendship with the other players, but that doesn't mean he had the social skill or anything to gain a proper social standing; and once he realized that, speed notwithstanding, he wasn't able to reach the level he wanted and wasn't enjoying it, he quickly lost that one core he had left.
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Old 2021-07-31, 15:55   Link #3603
WingedAccelerator
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It's chapter 82, when Kaguya lends Ishigami her uniform. I give the leeway that the fan translation says "club activities". Official says: "I was in the Track-and-Field Club in junior high, so I developed my pecs..."

The issue is track-and-field in general being mentioned earlier, as being the fastest runner as well, and now Ishigami's statement in the recent chaper heavily suggests he only did football all this time from elementary school. Even his teammates were illustrated with carrying a football around.
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Old 2021-07-31, 16:13   Link #3604
BWTraveller
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It's not just the fan translation. The original Japanese also says nothing but "club activities". Again, no mention of what club he's in, just that his club activities gave him a fair amount of muscle and athletic ability. And when it comes to things like relay, the fact that no one on the soccer team could outrun him is already impressive enough for him to be chosen as the anchor. What, do you believe that soccer players don't have to be really, really good at running?

Really, it looks like the "retcon" is merely due to the translators (official and fan) decided to add in specific details that were never given.
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Old 2021-07-31, 18:36   Link #3605
Kanon
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Originally Posted by Tactics View Post
The glasses girl taking all the blame because she's going "My friend is not good enough, she didn't deserve him" while all this time Iino just sit, having everything served to her yet it looks like many people here cherish her for that. Ultimately both didn't deserve victory. The glasses girl didn't deserve it because it all started by her own decision and should understand the best if that friend of her is unreliable at its finest. Iino didn't deserve it either because she never actually respect Ishigami as a person yet expecting him to consider her as equal, let alone this friend of hers that she doesn't seem to truly understand after all that time.
She's taking the blame because she's blaming Miko for her own failings instead of taking a good hard look at herself. And if anything, Miko deserves to win more because she's actually trying to win, unlike Osaragi who has done nothing but look for excuses not to pursue Ishigami.
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Old 2021-07-31, 23:32   Link #3606
SirCopert
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It's not just that, Osaragi assumes that Iino always knew Ishigami helped her when she doesn't really know.
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Old 2021-08-01, 03:02   Link #3607
WingedAccelerator
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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
It's not just the fan translation. The original Japanese also says nothing but "club activities". Again, no mention of what club he's in, just that his club activities gave him a fair amount of muscle and athletic ability. And when it comes to things like relay, the fact that no one on the soccer team could outrun him is already impressive enough for him to be chosen as the anchor. What, do you believe that soccer players don't have to be really, really good at running?

Really, it looks like the "retcon" is merely due to the translators (official and fan) decided to add in specific details that were never given.
Chapter 82 and 88 are the chapters that had any details.
I refuse to pretend that there is any sort of logical and acceptable connection between a fast track athlete and a fast football player. Track athletes have all sorts of time measurements to base their speed on, football players barely, certainly not in high school.

So on what basis would Ishigami be "the best in his club" according to the original Japanese mean he is "the fastest football player"? Best = He is the fastest, or ridiculously fast? Speed is definitely not the most important factor in football. In track, it's essential. So referring to the fastest as best makes way more sense than saying that to a football player.

Unrelated, but Mikado having football around in his character also doesn't help. Why make someone else with a football background again?
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Old 2021-08-01, 10:09   Link #3608
BWTraveller
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Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator View Post
Chapter 82 and 88 are the chapters that had any details.
I refuse to pretend that there is any sort of logical and acceptable connection between a fast track athlete and a fast football player. Track athletes have all sorts of time measurements to base their speed on, football players barely, certainly not in high school.

So on what basis would Ishigami be "the best in his club" according to the original Japanese mean he is "the fastest football player"? Best = He is the fastest, or ridiculously fast? Speed is definitely not the most important factor in football. In track, it's essential. So referring to the fastest as best makes way more sense than saying that to a football player.

Unrelated, but Mikado having football around in his character also doesn't help. Why make someone else with a football background again?
For one thing, it never said he was "best in his club", just "fastest" (Japanese: "Bu ja ichiban hayakatta rashii ja nai ka", lit. "Apparently you were the fastest guy in your club"). And yes, running speed is very important in soccer. It's a very big field, with a single ball getting kicked and dribbled from one end to the other while the other side tries to reach and intercept them. Thus, they have to be able to run fast, over and over, for a very long time. It's certainly not the most important skill, as a person who can run fast is still useless if he can't control and manipulate the ball, keep track of his surroundings, and demonstrate various other skills. And being the fastest soccer player doesn't mean you'll be able to beat a track-and-field athlete whose training has all been focused on running. But for a random group of people taking part in a general relay, a guy who used to be able to outrun the soccer team would be a plenty qualified replacement anchor.

Seriously, the translators just screwed up on the translation here. I've thought it before, but translators shouldn't be so eager to fill in the "holes" with whatever they think fits best. Yeah, given they were doing a relay it's understandable that they just assumed they were talking track-and-field, and with that assumption it would make sense to change "fastest" to "best". But by doing so they were adding information that was not provided or confirmed. As I said before, this isn't a retcon, it's just a translation error.
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Old 2021-08-01, 11:35   Link #3609
Shadow5YA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator View Post
Chapter 82 and 88 are the chapters that had any details.
I refuse to pretend that there is any sort of logical and acceptable connection between a fast track athlete and a fast football player. Track athletes have all sorts of time measurements to base their speed on, football players barely, certainly not in high school.
Do you have some notion that sports teams only play their sport or something? Running track (and being timed) is a common practice for strength and endurance training in both American football and soccer.
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Old 2021-08-01, 16:03   Link #3610
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by SirCopert View Post
It's not just that, Osaragi assumes that Iino always knew Ishigami helped her when she doesn't really know.
I don't think that's it. I think she's enamored with the notion of "helping without it being a transaction". That's why she fell for Ishigami's act of helping Iino anonymously, and was on board with Iino standing up for him without letting him know. It's why she first thought of Iino, rather than herself, as the heroine of this romance story. Iino knowing would just have spoiled things.
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Old 2021-08-02, 10:06   Link #3611
Tactics
Haven't You Heard?
 
 
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Please, as someone who play soccer on school team when I was child, running speed is like third on importance list ... and its a team sport.
Thus its kinda hilarious for me if Ishigami once playing soccer on school team as well because if that's true then he should understand what one need to do as a new recruit, perks of being former soccer club member instead of having his morale carried by Tsubame; especially if he got history being fast runner, given the marathon actually favors him over soccer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
She's taking the blame because she's blaming Miko for her own failings instead of taking a good hard look at herself. And if anything, Miko deserves to win more because she's actually trying to win, unlike Osaragi who has done nothing but look for excuses not to pursue Ishigami.
When both compared Osaragi easily at fault; thus I criticized the situation being imbalanced.

If Iino is like, say, Nakano Miku from Go-toubun, I wouldn't mind joining all this "Osaragi is to blame" because the other one is honest and working hard for it.

Here all about her chasing Ishigami started because others told her to.
She's often disconnected from the whole situation regarding him is because most of what she felt is handed to her on silver platter; this is very apparent with how none of other members: Shirogane, Kaguya, Fujiwara and Ishigami ever truly saw her as 'equal' when it comes to achievement no matter how author tried to gloss it with obligatory "its your fault not taking care of her" from other supporting characters.

To make it worse, Shirogane, Kaguya and Tsubame already serve as example of how Ishigami became better person through sincere appreciation.
Until now none of Osaragi and Iino managed to truly achieve it, no wonder Osaragi snapped after all that free opportunity as she respects Ishigami enough to wish for his happiness. Then we have author that keep pushing idea of "Ishigami should be a better person around Iino for whatever reason", now pulling "Did you know that Ishigami sense of justice inspired by her?" despite back then Shirogane recognized him simply because he is who he is.

Thus I stand with 'ultimately both didn't deserve victory'.
One shot her own leg. One found her spot through a lot of justification; both caused by their own meta problem, ironically.
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Old 2021-08-02, 11:15   Link #3612
BWTraveller
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Miko didn't start pursuing him seriously because she was told to. She was just clinging to her excessive moral standards, and once she was given a reason to consider it not entirely wrong to take action, she did. And it really doesn't look to me like she has much "served to her on a silver platter". Yeah, she has some initial connections to Ishigami due to them both having worked to protect and support the other, but still she only got anywhere by trying herself.

And no, I didn't see any implication that Ishigami was inspired to his love of justice by Miko. It didn't really look like it was indicating when he started his fight for justice (in fact, since it looks like Osaragi already had some interest in him it could be inferred that this was after he'd already taken to drawing fire from other bullied individuals like herself). More like, the way I saw it, both were playing champion of justice in their unique ways, ways that tended to clash at times and came from different motivations, but ultimately both were trying to fight to protect others, including each other.

Anyway, I'll need examples of just how you believe the others didn't see her as an equal and what you mean by achievement there, as I honestly have no clue what you're talking about..
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Old 2021-08-02, 13:02   Link #3613
WingedAccelerator
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Do you have some notion that sports teams only play their sport or something? Running track (and being timed) is a common practice for strength and endurance training in both American football and soccer.
Kazeno only needed to say best in PE or best in class and we good. Since for some reason Aka hid Ishigami's club all this time, that would be more flexible for a future reveal. Now it's just messy with football and the fact the debate is still on is the truth. He heard stories about how good Ishigami was in middle school, he was the best in his club, they need the perfect replacement anchor for the race, so track absolutely seems way more logical than football. And I already said my piece about how unlikely is that he gets reputation as a middle school football player, so automatically he is supposed to be speedy.

Now then, how many times do you plan on quoting me regarding a certain topic, then asking absolutely irrelevant questions to me in a condescending, educative manner? By any means continue to do so, if you enjoy it so much, but chances say I will ignore most if not all of them.
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Old 2021-08-02, 16:51   Link #3614
BWTraveller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator View Post
Kazeno only needed to say best in PE or best in class and we good. Since for some reason Aka hid Ishigami's club all this time, that would be more flexible for a future reveal. Now it's just messy with football and the fact the debate is still on is the truth. He heard stories about how good Ishigami was in middle school, he was the best in his club, they need the perfect replacement anchor for the race, so track absolutely seems way more logical than football. And I already said my piece about how unlikely is that he gets reputation as a middle school football player, so automatically he is supposed to be speedy.

Now then, how many times do you plan on quoting me regarding a certain topic, then asking absolutely irrelevant questions to me in a condescending, educative manner? By any means continue to do so, if you enjoy it so much, but chances say I will ignore most if not all of them.
"The debate" here consists of one person who insists that anything that's not like he expected is "messy writing" and everyone else "debating" telling you that they never said the word "best", only "fastest", something that even for a soccer player would still make him very fast compared to a lot of other people and thus a good choice for anchor. If you don't want condescension, then maybe try not insisting over and over that things were said that weren't said or that something that makes logical sense is "bad writing" just because it doesn't match with what you think is the best (or here most blatantly, boringly obvious) path?
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Old 2021-08-02, 23:37   Link #3615
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator View Post
Kazeno only needed to say best in PE or best in class and we good. Since for some reason Aka hid Ishigami's club all this time, that would be more flexible for a future reveal. Now it's just messy with football and the fact the debate is still on is the truth. He heard stories about how good Ishigami was in middle school, he was the best in his club, they need the perfect replacement anchor for the race, so track absolutely seems way more logical than football. And I already said my piece about how unlikely is that he gets reputation as a middle school football player, so automatically he is supposed to be speedy.

Now then, how many times do you plan on quoting me regarding a certain topic, then asking absolutely irrelevant questions to me in a condescending, educative manner? By any means continue to do so, if you enjoy it so much, but chances say I will ignore most if not all of them.
PE is not the same as being a part of a sports club. PE is mandatory, at least up to a certain point. Being a part of a sports team is entirely elective from the beginning.

And unless you were a bench warmer who never actually participated (which doesn't sound like the case), you earn a reputation for your athletic ability that already sets you apart from the rest of the class.

I fail to see why it matters to you why Ishigami has to be in track, or somehow his athletic reputation isn't real. If anything, soccer is the more popular sport, so his reputation for being athletic would be even bigger.

Reputation in school is especially compounded by their school system, considering:
1) Japanese classes are all spent in the same homeroom for a majority of the time, and
2) Shuchi'in is an elevator school
so it's easy for everyone to know something about everyone in their class compared to Western school.
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Old 2021-08-03, 02:59   Link #3616
Diluc
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Old 2021-08-03, 03:38   Link #3617
WingedAccelerator
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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
"The debate" here consists of one person who insists that anything that's not like he expected is "messy writing" and everyone else "debating" telling you that they never said the word "best", only "fastest", something that even for a soccer player would still make him very fast compared to a lot of other people and thus a good choice for anchor. If you don't want condescension, then maybe try not insisting over and over that things were said that weren't said or that something that makes logical sense is "bad writing" just because it doesn't match with what you think is the best (or here most blatantly, boringly obvious) path?
For one last time, Ishigami's reputation got highlighted in accordance with his club, in which he was the best apparently. Not fastest, but best, but context suggests speed. Unlike track, football has a lot more versatility with various positions. Kazeno still heard stories about Ishigami being a hot topic as the best. By that logic, he may as well be a legendary goalkeeper or passive, but super effective centre-back and those doesn't imply he got the speed to necessary carry a relay team. With simply referring to time measurements during PE, Cooper Tests, Marathons, how this middle schooler broke records, or outright naming track, this kind of discussion wouldn't even have happened in the first place.

Spoiler for Chapter 233:


Break next week as this is a double issue.
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Old 2021-08-03, 04:45   Link #3618
Tenzen12
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Do you even know what "mistranslation" is? Akasaka NEVER said Ishigami was "best". Translator did and they were WRONG.

Same goes for Track and Field stuff.

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Spoiler for 223:
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Old 2021-08-03, 05:04   Link #3619
Diluc
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
Do you even know what "mistranslation" is? Akasaka NEVER said Ishigami was "best". Translator did and they were WRONG.

Same goes for Track and Field stuff.



Spoiler for 223:
Spoiler for 223:
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Old 2021-08-03, 05:09   Link #3620
Tenzen12
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What she said is common sense. Pointing finger never solved any problem.
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