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Old 2021-07-31, 16:25   Link #3581
Denker
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
AND can it cause some problem when they find out that beltram allowed the torture/interrogation in a 7 year old and later on, being used as an escape goat. them finding out would also might cause of Francois knowing and asking questions in restoration faction.
My biggest hope for the next Vol is more of Rio's identity leaking, but I doubt it will be related to Beltrum, as much as I wanted. It could be about his identity as a noble from another Kingdom, since he still needs to explain having such strong retainers.
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Old 2021-07-31, 16:31   Link #3582
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by Denker View Post
My biggest hope for the next Vol is more of Rio's identity leaking, but I doubt it will be related to Beltrum, as much as I wanted. It could be about his identity as a noble from another Kingdom, since he still needs to explain having such strong retainers.
This is a high likely possibility with Gouki and co. being there and they wher pretty flashy in entrance and defeating the enemies.
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Old 2021-08-01, 01:15   Link #3583
NAJ P. Jackson
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
This is a high likely possibility with Gouki and co. being there and they wher pretty flashy in entrance and defeating the enemies.
Is the Yagumo province even willing to acknowledge Rio's existence as a prince is the problem. The whole point of his parents leaving was to disassociate themselves with their home country. But I suppose Yagumo did defeat the country that caused his parents to flee already. I feel like it wouldn't be long before Gouki reveals his identity if he hears anyone badmouthing Rio.
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Old 2021-08-01, 01:48   Link #3584
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by NAJ P. Jackson View Post
Is the Yagumo province even willing to acknowledge Rio's existence as a prince is the problem. The whole point of his parents leaving was to disassociate themselves with their home country. But I suppose Yagumo did defeat the country that caused his parents to flee already. I feel like it wouldn't be long before Gouki reveals his identity if he hears anyone badmouthing Rio.
If I remember it right, they are keeping it a secret? The people of the country didn't know but at least, the higher ups probably. The people of the country did try to put the blame on the princess which force the princess to flee.

If I remember it right too, the country that cause Rio's parents to flee are also connected to Galark but there had been no new news for 10 years already.

The distance from strahl? region and Yagumo region is just too vast and dangerous that traveling in between, without goals, aren't recommended at all. 1 year travel time is too big. If one is walking, and even flying cause 1 month? or is it week? still, it shows how far the distance of those two. Its even fine to say that they are separate continent if you ask me.
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Old 2021-08-01, 05:09   Link #3585
Snowbold
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
If I remember it right, they are keeping it a secret? The people of the country didn't know but at least, the higher ups probably. The people of the country did try to put the blame on the princess which force the princess to flee.

If I remember it right too, the country that cause Rio's parents to flee are also connected to Galark but there had been no new news for 10 years already.

The distance from strahl? region and Yagumo region is just too vast and dangerous that traveling in between, without goals, aren't recommended at all. 1 year travel time is too big. If one is walking, and even flying cause 1 month? or is it week? still, it shows how far the distance of those two. Its even fine to say that they are separate continent if you ask me.
There are several points here that make this complicated.
  • Like you said, Karasuki scapegoated the princess and her bodyguard as the fault for the war with Rokuren.
  • Rokuren did have diplomatic relations with Galwark in the past.
  • Rio is an illegitimate bastard descended from the king of Karasuki.
  • Gouki's group crossed the continent in a suspiciously short time.

These points make several things easy and hard to communicate Rio's status. On the one hand, how is Galwark or any other kingdom going to confirm Rio's status on the other side of the continent when they lack the means to travel as well as him? However, he is also aligned with a kingdom that was enemies with Galwark's friendly nation, making him suspect. People will ask questions about how Gouki's group managed to not only cross the continent in a relatively short time, but with children in tow. Leaving questions about either the truth of them traveling from Yagumo or the distance to settlements (a threat to the secrecy of Seirei no Tami). Rio's lineage will make him 'noble' enough to marry royalty but also call into question his status since he is a bastard of a disgraced princess.

All of these factors and the reality that besides Rio's group, Reiss likely knows the most makes it dangerous with how to release it. Reiss will probably use disinformation to harm Rio and those dear to him by distorting the facts.

One of my worries always was that Aki would betray Seirei no Tami by telling Takahisa who would attack it or reveal it. Reiss could very well play a part in that as a way to help Takahisa awaken and sabotage Haruto while he continues with his agenda.
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Old 2021-08-01, 05:52   Link #3586
tsunade666
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Takatrash is trash. No question ask. I worry that bakahiroaki would also cause trouble later on due to jealousy. After Erika, the trouble would be pawn egorenji of reiss and possible trouble of takatrash and hiroaki.

The only good hero is satsuki and rui is in tight space with him being connected to beltram which is probably being toyed with by reiss. I won't be surprised if rui turn enemy because akane was used to forced him to attack Rio.

Rio status is indeed troublesome. Revealing it or not revealing it are both troublesome. Him being royal by blood but outside by wedlock and her mother being forced to flee her country. It still didn't change his royal blood status but it's troublesome situation.

Digging his origin would probably ended up questioning his identity though it's a bit stretch. I hoped his life on beltram would be revealed.
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Old 2021-08-01, 06:19   Link #3587
Snowbold
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
Takatrash is trash. No question ask. I worry that bakahiroaki would also cause trouble later on due to jealousy. After Erika, the trouble would be pawn egorenji of reiss and possible trouble of takatrash and hiroaki.

The only good hero is satsuki and rui is in tight space with him being connected to beltram which is probably being toyed with by reiss. I won't be surprised if rui turn enemy because akane was used to forced him to attack Rio.

Rio status is indeed troublesome. Revealing it or not revealing it are both troublesome. Him being royal by blood but outside by wedlock and her mother being forced to flee her country. It still didn't change his royal blood status but it's troublesome situation.

Digging his origin would probably ended up questioning his identity though it's a bit stretch. I hoped his life on beltram would be revealed.
As Christina already knows, the revelation of Rio's past would be the end of Restoration. By revealing it, they would be declaring Haruto Amakawa a criminal guilty of regicide. King Francois would at least hear out Haruto before doing something like calling him a criminal.

Christina and Flora have already said they would admit the truth about the incident, which means that Duke Huguenot, the source of power for Restoration, would be labeled a criminal as would his son. And that's not even considering Latifa's testimony.

It also hurts the Beltrum Royal family that they aided Huguenot in this conspiracy to frame someone innocent with regicide to protect themselves and now that person is someone capable of fighting awakened heroes evenly. Phillip Beltrum would be proven to be as inept as we all know and the Arbors can use this as justification to just kill him and install their granddaughter who is Beltrum royalty. They can also call for the deaths of the Christina and Flora for aiding and abetting this conspiracy all along despite knowing th truth.

That revelation benefits the Arbors more than anyone at this point in time.
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Old 2021-08-01, 08:55   Link #3588
Lolilulz33
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I agree the situation is quite troublesome for everyone... I think Rio/Haruto will just tell the concerned people about his background. Rio can bring prooves about his past since the slums until the outdoor drill, princess Christina, Vanessa, Flora, Célia, Aria (who took care of him after the torture and teach him about manners) and even Liselotte and Cosette, the last to have seen Rio before he left the Strahl regions. The Karasuki épisode can be proven by Gouki and Kayoko.
I used to hate princess Christina at first, but now she is one of my favorite, she changed for the best (I recomand to read the extra-stories). She earns a lot of experience in the last books and does not show the same weakness as her father and does not hesitate to put limits to Hiroaki's whim contrary to duke Huguenot and speaking about him... I think soon or later he will fall. In a certain way he is more dangerous than duke Arbor (he wants to rule from the shadows). On a personal note : someone who puts a collar of submission on a seven years old girl and sends her to kill a 12 years old kid... Definitely not trustworthy.
The meeting between the Restoration and Arbor faction seems to be a fake. The main objective for Helmut is to attack Rodania (according to Reiss's words in volume 19).
Gouki and Kayoko leave Karakuri kingdom in volume 3 short after Rio. We see them again 14 volumes after, is it really "suspicious" ?
Aishia is a real mistery (like Reiss), my guess : she is a mix created from all the six upper high spirit which explains her all-round type (Aishia can use all éléments) and her lack of memories (simple because she does not have any) and also her long sleep. I don't know why she is contracted to Rio.
I think it's better to keep Rio's secret it can serve later as leverage against duke Huguenot if he is... Too invading.
The next volume will be quite exciting. Winter is coming.
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Old 2021-08-01, 09:58   Link #3589
Alisa~Chan~
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Aaaahhh~!! I can't wait for the big reveal~ the chaos~! And the war~! This is making me feel weird and excited at the same time~!
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Old 2021-08-01, 15:25   Link #3590
Enternal
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Originally Posted by Mirable View Post
精霊幻想記 20.彼女の聖戦

War is coming



Hahaha, I had the same reactions when I saw this tweet the other day (Been super busy the last month so now catching up). I immediately pre-ordered the volume (Though, to be exact, I have been doing that for all the previous volumes for some time now. But this particular one and the one with the Liselotte in a maid outfit made me jump really fast, lol). Also, her dress reminds me more of Cinderella for some reason. The glass slippers, the dress, and the clock that is closing on midnight?

Anyways, I should also start catching up on the anime. I'm still quite hesitant, though. I'm assuming the pacing is a bit jarring and as far as most adaptations go, it can be done pretty bad.


EDIT: Lol, Jagt already said weeks ago what I was thinking. Yes, Cinderella. And lol, Robert1. You may "hate" the author but remember, Liselotte is great because of who she is. So, you got to thank the author for that.

Also I know that some people have issues with Rio. I just wanted to put it out there but I personally don't. I have more issues with WN Rio but LN Rio, I rather like him quite a lot.

Anyways, back to Liselotte, I really REALLY hope that his would one day be available as a tapestry. I would buy multiples of them like I did with Maid Liselotte, lol. I'm getting a little crazy here.

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Originally Posted by Alisa~Chan~ View Post
Aaaahhh~!! I can't wait for the big reveal~ the chaos~! And the war~! This is making me feel weird and excited at the same time~!
Haha, yep. I'm just keep getting excited and more excited over time. I'm glad I found out about this series years ago. Also, just wanted to say thanks to Jagt and a few others who always provide pretty extensive details about the latest volume releases.

Last edited by Enternal; 2021-08-01 at 15:42.
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Old 2021-08-01, 16:27   Link #3591
jagt
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Hahaha, I had the same reactions when I saw this tweet the other day (Been super busy the last month so now catching up). I immediately pre-ordered the volume (Though, to be exact, I have been doing that for all the previous volumes for some time now. But this particular one and the one with the Liselotte in a maid outfit made me jump really fast, lol). Also, her dress reminds me more of Cinderella for some reason. The glass slippers, the dress, and the clock that is closing on midnight?

Anyways, I should also start catching up on the anime. I'm still quite hesitant, though. I'm assuming the pacing is a bit jarring and as far as most adaptations go, it can be done pretty bad.


EDIT: Lol, Jagt already said weeks ago what I was thinking. Yes, Cinderella. And lol, Robert1. You may "hate" the author but remember, Liselotte is great because of who she is. So, you got to thank the author for that.

Also I know that some people have issues with Rio. I just wanted to put it out there but I personally don't. I have more issues with WN Rio but LN Rio, I rather like him quite a lot.

Anyways, back to Liselotte, I really REALLY hope that his would one day be available as a tapestry. I would buy multiples of them like I did with Maid Liselotte, lol. I'm getting a little crazy here.



Haha, yep. I'm just keep getting excited and more excited over time. I'm glad I found out about this series years ago. Also, just wanted to say thanks to Jagt and a few others who always provide pretty extensive details about the latest volume releases.
The illustrations of previous SS bookcovers were already made into tapestries, this time's will be likely made into one too. The bad part is that melonbooks just sells them in the special events they organize from time to time, so getting your hands on one may be complicated. If you keep paying attention to Riv's, the author's or HJ bunko's twitter accounts you should see the link to the events' sites.
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Old 2021-08-01, 17:31   Link #3592
Enternal
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Originally Posted by jagt View Post
The illustrations of previous SS bookcovers were already made into tapestries, this time's will be likely made into one too. The bad part is that melonbooks just sells them in the special events they organize from time to time, so getting your hands on one may be complicated. If you keep paying attention to Riv's, the author's or HJ bunko's twitter accounts you should see the link to the events' sites.
Oh yeah, I forgot about those, even though I do have quite a few of those tapestries. But yes, getting them can be hard. I am fortunate I have a friend who lives there who can get them for me. But he lives a little far from these events so I have been looking for alternative ways of getting them to not bother him as much. Or wait for them to show up on Yahoo! Auctions, but they would almost always be priced higher. I do hope that they continue to do more of these mail orders for a good selection of these merchandises that they sell at those special Seirei Shops ever since the pandemic.
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Old 2021-08-02, 18:12   Link #3593
haseo0408
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Originally Posted by Snowbold View Post
As Christina already knows, the revelation of Rio's past would be the end of Restoration. By revealing it, they would be declaring Haruto Amakawa a criminal guilty of regicide. King Francois would at least hear out Haruto before doing something like calling him a criminal.

Christina and Flora have already said they would admit the truth about the incident, which means that Duke Huguenot, the source of power for Restoration, would be labeled a criminal as would his son. And that's not even considering Latifa's testimony.

It also hurts the Beltrum Royal family that they aided Huguenot in this conspiracy to frame someone innocent with regicide to protect themselves and now that person is someone capable of fighting awakened heroes evenly. Phillip Beltrum would be proven to be as inept as we all know and the Arbors can use this as justification to just kill him and install their granddaughter who is Beltrum royalty. They can also call for the deaths of the Christina and Flora for aiding and abetting this conspiracy all along despite knowing th truth.

That revelation benefits the Arbors more than anyone at this point in time.
The best course of action is that Francios is made aware of Rios identity but decides to keep it secret from the public and the rest of the nobles. King is such an inept ruler that this is the perfect excuse for total civil war in Belthrum at the same time it could develop into full war against Garlak and with Erika about to start a war against Garlak and the rest of the continent, it could spiral out of control very quickly. This topic could become a nuke about to go off if its not handled with the utmost care.
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Old 2021-08-02, 22:52   Link #3594
Alisa~Chan~
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@Enternal as a person who is afraid of getting scammed and doesn't have E-money/Credit Card for a multitude of reasons~ i am very envious of you who get to buy these awesome collectibles and support the author at the same time~

About the subject of Rio's status of being royal blood~
Like many others have said~ the situation is really troublesome, complicated, and it's just bad news for everyone involved all around~ Considering the facts and the other circumstances everyone has pointed out~ i can only see two options at the moment~

1.) Is to both tell Rio's hidden status as Royalty from a far distant land and his past relationship with Miharu and Satsuki~ (i did not consider Latifa for now since its kinda another slice of the pie that I don't want to touch right now)

2.) Is for Satsuki to marry him without revealing his status as royalty~

For option one~ His political position would be practically at the same level as Miharu or even better~ Satsuki~ In this way he can be hard to attack politically since he is in a way a Royal Saint but in the same level as heroes in strength~

For option two~ That just makes it harder for the others to touch him since he is the lover of a Hero and if they did then they are also attacking Satsuki in a sense~ this is practically a political suicide to those who oppose the two~
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Old 2021-08-03, 11:36   Link #3595
jagt
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A lot of people tends to find easy to criticize Philip and to overstimate the scale of matters related to Rio. When Philip rose to the throne things were already pretty much beyond what he could do something about because of his father's senility, you could even say that it was his achievement to hold back Helmut's ambitions for another fifteen-twenty years, even longer if not for Reis intervention and Helmut's treason, is simply impossible to move things forward if you have to spend five years in making sure your main forces won't stab you in the back.

A lot of people like a lot to say that Philip should have killed Helmut in volume 1, and calling him shortsighted because he didn't, but how many have ever thought about what would happen if he had tried to do so or if the law allowed him to do so in the first place? Helmut of course would resist, a civil war, and a winning one, the royal guard who is in charge of protecting Philip and the capital was mainly in Helmut's hands, Helmut could take care of Philip and Hugenot in just one day way before anyone could help them. That is if the law have allowed to kill Helmut, but it problaby doesn't, in a feudal system the king is quite restricted and less absolute than people think, you can't make up whatever shit for killing someone who bothers you, even more if it is someone who is currently more powerful than you yourself, not being up to the royalty's expectatives isn't a reason to die or a capital crime under any circunstances, it may be in Japan with the bushido and all of that, but in this series there isn't that kind of culture, without a law or system that doesn't rewad or punish with proportionality no one will ever follow you, because they will just live wondering when they will be next if they get in your bad side for whatever reason, in a noble society stepping down from whatever duty you have is the standart and the logical thing, normally this societies don't allow to ask for more than that from an individual or family by both culture and law.

The matter of Rio, people certainly looked down on Rio due to his lack of status, but that isn't exclusive of Beltram, it is the same everywhere, the thing is, the decision of framing Rio was never a matter of discrimination, Stead certainly accused Rio for the sake of harassment and forcing him to leave the academy, but everything beyond that was outside his expectatives, Rio being framed was a combination of bad timing and calculating winning and loses, I already said this several times and I will say it again, Philip's decision was right, at least as a king, the twelve years old Rio never showed anything that would make him worth losing control of the kingdom's army just for his sake and even if Philip had taken his side on the matter Rio would never be loyal to Bertram or its royalty or change his plans of leaving the kingdom, Philip was doomed to regret to have taken Rio's side whatever the reason, the only possible mistake Philip can be accused of is to not foresee Reis' involvement and Rio isn't innocent of tht either precisely.

About the next volume, I think Rio will talk of his life in the Bertram Kingdom and the Karasuki Kingdom, but everything will remain a secret, basically because Rio wil find it a bother to tell the truth and dealing with the aftermath.

The possible repercusions of the framing incident, they completely depend on Rio, not in Helmut or anyone else, for Helmut this incident is just material for bad propaganda and that's it, as the aggravated party it is completely on Rio what kind of things to ask for in exchange of his troubles and who can be held accountable of what happened, if Rio, the aggravated party, designates Christina and Flora as innocent bystanders that's it, even more if they help Rio to clean his name and with the summary of the incident detailing that the two of them never accused Rio of anything, whatever attemp on the sisters Rio can thwart it by being given Celia and/or Flora without conditions attached, truth being told I can very easily imagine Charlotte pushing for this and including Christina in the pack so she, Liselotte and Satsuki would need to be part of Rio's harem for balancing how many influence Beltram could try to exert on Rio, if the sisters already apologized with everything they can it is simply impossible to even speak ill of them, something like that may even release Philip of any responsibility too, because he would be already paying for it with his daughter/s. Hugenot and Garcia are different, but it is not like Rio has a blank check for asking for whatever he wants, Rio at most could ask for a monetaty compensation and/or for Hugenot's and Garcia's retirements in favor of their hyphotetical succesors, he won't be allowed or anyone else to ask for anyone's life under any circunstances, what was done to Rio isn't in any case a capital crime just because Rio is the MC, the society will never allow of someone of common origin o demand for more from a noble regardless of his battle prowess.

Rio's royal origin: Homura will never reveal Rio to the public without his consent, and Rio will never allow that for two reasons. 1, If Homura recognizes Rio he will unavoidably suffer any kind of setback from the general public or/and a rival fraction, Rio will never allow that. 2, If Rio has his status recognized he will have to be up to the possible responsibilities that come with it, responsibilities Rio doesn't want to know anything about.

The possible repercussions of Rio's origins being known, just one more thing to add to his legend, a thing to gossip about at bars and parties at maximum, a lot of people in the Stralh region don't even know about Yagumo's existence, it won't have much of an effect, having ties with the Yagumo region isn't worth it because it is impossible to gain or lose anything from that bond, for the kingdoms of both sides it is completely impossible to take any friendly or hostile action towards each other, the people from the Stral region can't reach the Yagumo region and the elites of the Yagumo region need more than a year for crossing the wilderness, and even after all of that effor the most that they can manage is approach any king just for making their existence known and having to spend more than a year on going back without anything to show for their problems. Galarc was never in some kind of alliance with Rokuren, that's why being friendly to someone from the Karasuki kingdom can't never create any problem for them, even if Rio's status in the Galarc Kingdom and his relationship with Zen and Ayame were to be known in the Karasuki Kingdom, again, it would just be nothing more than gossip material, the general populace and unknowing nobles may be indignant about Ayame's and Zen's child making it big in the Strall region despite the problems that they put Karasuki through and that's it, there isn't absolutely anything they can hold Homura accountable for because of that.

About Hiroaki, whatever attemp of picturing this guy as villain is seriously overthinking things, he doesn't have the gals for absolutely anything be it for good or for bad, Hiroaki is the mob in charge of the comic relief, nothing more and nothing less, Hiroaki is stupid but not the same kind of stupid that Renji and Takatrash.

About Aki, this girl is another typical victim of being believed more evil that she actually is and it isn't because of what she did in the books but because of people misremembering about what happened in the WN, everyone already treated her as some kind of villainess because of that but in the end she was just deceived by Takatrash into helping him, in the LN she helping Takatrash was just a moment of momentary madness due to the several emotional scars she carries and that's it, Aki's matter was never a matter of being a genuine bad person, it was just a moment of weakness and the current Aki is already cured of that idiotness thanks to Masato's efforts, Takatrash has no longer a hold of Aki's heart. @Snowbold just in case I will remember you again that Miharu, Aki and Masato upon arriving at the spirit folk's village were made to sign a magic contract that makes any possible action harmful to the spirit folk impossible for the three, even without the contract Aki would never do it anyway, you seriously overstimate how much Takatrash can control her and her lack of conscience.
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Old 2021-08-04, 00:08   Link #3596
haseo0408
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Originally Posted by jagt View Post
A lot of people tends to find easy to criticize Philip and to overstimate the scale of matters related to Rio. When Philip rose to the throne things were already pretty much beyond what he could do something about because of his father's senility, you could even say that it was his achievement to hold back Helmut's ambitions for another fifteen-twenty years, even longer if not for Reis intervention and Helmut's treason, is simply impossible to move things forward if you have to spend five years in making sure your main forces won't stab you in the back.

A lot of people like a lot to say that Philip should have killed Helmut in volume 1, and calling him shortsighted because he didn't, but how many have ever thought about what would happen if he had tried to do so or if the law allowed him to do so in the first place? Helmut of course would resist, a civil war, and a winning one, the royal guard who is in charge of protecting Philip and the capital was mainly in Helmut's hands, Helmut could take care of Philip and Hugenot in just one day way before anyone could help them. That is if the law have allowed to kill Helmut, but it problaby doesn't, in a feudal system the king is quite restricted and less absolute than people think, you can't make up whatever shit for killing someone who bothers you, even more if it is someone who is currently more powerful than you yourself, not being up to the royalty's expectatives isn't a reason to die or a capital crime under any circunstances, it may be in Japan with the bushido and all of that, but in this series there isn't that kind of culture, without a law or system that doesn't rewad or punish with proportionality no one will ever follow you, because they will just live wondering when they will be next if they get in your bad side for whatever reason, in a noble society stepping down from whatever duty you have is the standart and the logical thing, normally this societies don't allow to ask for more than that from an individual or family by both culture and law.

The matter of Rio, people certainly looked down on Rio due to his lack of status, but that isn't exclusive of Beltram, it is the same everywhere, the thing is, the decision of framing Rio was never a matter of discrimination, Stead certainly accused Rio for the sake of harassment and forcing him to leave the academy, but everything beyond that was outside his expectatives, Rio being framed was a combination of bad timing and calculating winning and loses, I already said this several times and I will say it again, Philip's decision was right, at least as a king, the twelve years old Rio never showed anything that would make him worth losing control of the kingdom's army just for his sake and even if Philip had taken his side on the matter Rio would never be loyal to Bertram or its royalty or change his plans of leaving the kingdom, Philip was doomed to regret to have taken Rio's side whatever the reason, the only possible mistake Philip can be accused of is to not foresee Reis' involvement and Rio isn't innocent of tht either precisely.

About the next volume, I think Rio will talk of his life in the Bertram Kingdom and the Karasuki Kingdom, but everything will remain a secret, basically because Rio wil find it a bother to tell the truth and dealing with the aftermath.

The possible repercusions of the framing incident, they completely depend on Rio, not in Helmut or anyone else, for Helmut this incident is just material for bad propaganda and that's it, as the aggravated party it is completely on Rio what kind of things to ask for in exchange of his troubles and who can be held accountable of what happened, if Rio, the aggravated party, designates Christina and Flora as innocent bystanders that's it, even more if they help Rio to clean his name and with the summary of the incident detailing that the two of them never accused Rio of anything, whatever attemp on the sisters Rio can thwart it by being given Celia and/or Flora without conditions attached, truth being told I can very easily imagine Charlotte pushing for this and including Christina in the pack so she, Liselotte and Satsuki would need to be part of Rio's harem for balancing how many influence Beltram could try to exert on Rio, if the sisters already apologized with everything they can it is simply impossible to even speak ill of them, something like that may even release Philip of any responsibility too, because he would be already paying for it with his daughter/s. Hugenot and Garcia are different, but it is not like Rio has a blank check for asking for whatever he wants, Rio at most could ask for a monetaty compensation and/or for Hugenot's and Garcia's retirements in favor of their hyphotetical succesors, he won't be allowed or anyone else to ask for anyone's life under any circunstances, what was done to Rio isn't in any case a capital crime just because Rio is the MC, the society will never allow of someone of common origin o demand for more from a noble regardless of his battle prowess.

Rio's royal origin: Homura will never reveal Rio to the public without his consent, and Rio will never allow that for two reasons. 1, If Homura recognizes Rio he will unavoidably suffer any kind of setback from the general public or/and a rival fraction, Rio will never allow that. 2, If Rio has his status recognized he will have to be up to the possible responsibilities that come with it, responsibilities Rio doesn't want to know anything about.

The possible repercussions of Rio's origins being known, just one more thing to add to his legend, a thing to gossip about at bars and parties at maximum, a lot of people in the Stralh region don't even know about Yagumo's existence, it won't have much of an effect, having ties with the Yagumo region isn't worth it because it is impossible to gain or lose anything from that bond, for the kingdoms of both sides it is completely impossible to take any friendly or hostile action towards each other, the people from the Stral region can't reach the Yagumo region and the elites of the Yagumo region need more than a year for crossing the wilderness, and even after all of that effor the most that they can manage is approach any king just for making their existence known and having to spend more than a year on going back without anything to show for their problems. Galarc was never in some kind of alliance with Rokuren, that's why being friendly to someone from the Karasuki kingdom can't never create any problem for them, even if Rio's status in the Galarc Kingdom and his relationship with Zen and Ayame were to be known in the Karasuki Kingdom, again, it would just be nothing more than gossip material, the general populace and unknowing nobles may be indignant about Ayame's and Zen's child making it big in the Strall region despite the problems that they put Karasuki through and that's it, there isn't absolutely anything they can hold Homura accountable for because of that.

About Hiroaki, whatever attemp of picturing this guy as villain is seriously overthinking things, he doesn't have the gals for absolutely anything be it for good or for bad, Hiroaki is the mob in charge of the comic relief, nothing more and nothing less, Hiroaki is stupid but not the same kind of stupid that Renji and Takatrash.

About Aki, this girl is another typical victim of being believed more evil that she actually is and it isn't because of what she did in the books but because of people misremembering about what happened in the WN, everyone already treated her as some kind of villainess because of that but in the end she was just deceived by Takatrash into helping him, in the LN she helping Takatrash was just a moment of momentary madness due to the several emotional scars she carries and that's it, Aki's matter was never a matter of being a genuine bad person, it was just a moment of weakness and the current Aki is already cured of that idiotness thanks to Masato's efforts, Takatrash has no longer a hold of Aki's heart. @Snowbold just in case I will remember you again that Miharu, Aki and Masato upon arriving at the spirit folk's village were made to sign a magic contract that makes any possible action harmful to the spirit folk impossible for the three, even without the contract Aki would never do it anyway, you seriously overstimate how much Takatrash can control her and her lack of conscience.
When you say it like that I start to feel bad for Hirokai and I hate that guy!. So sad he doesnt have the courage or will to be the hero of the story but also lacks ruthlessness to be a villain, at the end of the day hes just a clown.

Takatrash and Renji on the other hand...... boy, theyre already on the path to villainy, made even worse in the case of Takatrash because he has people who care for him, and theyre trying to make him change into a better person but he just wont sulking and obsessing over Miharu.
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Old 2021-08-04, 01:53   Link #3597
Kyureki
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Originally Posted by haseo0408 View Post
When you say it like that I start to feel bad for Hirokai and I hate that guy!. So sad he doesnt have the courage or will to be the hero of the story but also lacks ruthlessness to be a villain, at the end of the day hes just a clown.
A lot of Japanese find Hiroaki cute in his clownishness when listening to the drama CDs if that's any indication.
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Old 2021-08-04, 03:03   Link #3598
Alisa~Chan~
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So your saying he was working as a part time clown off screen and we didn't even knew it~?!
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Old 2021-08-04, 03:14   Link #3599
Snowbold
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Originally Posted by jagt View Post
A lot of people tends to find easy to criticize Philip and to overstimate the scale of matters related to Rio. When Philip rose to the throne things were already pretty much beyond what he could do something about because of his father's senility, you could even say that it was his achievement to hold back Helmut's ambitions for another fifteen-twenty years, even longer if not for Reis intervention and Helmut's treason, is simply impossible to move things forward if you have to spend five years in making sure your main forces won't stab you in the back.

A lot of people like a lot to say that Philip should have killed Helmut in volume 1, and calling him shortsighted because he didn't, but how many have ever thought about what would happen if he had tried to do so or if the law allowed him to do so in the first place? Helmut of course would resist, a civil war, and a winning one, the royal guard who is in charge of protecting Philip and the capital was mainly in Helmut's hands, Helmut could take care of Philip and Hugenot in just one day way before anyone could help them. That is if the law have allowed to kill Helmut, but it problaby doesn't, in a feudal system the king is quite restricted and less absolute than people think, you can't make up whatever shit for killing someone who bothers you, even more if it is someone who is currently more powerful than you yourself, not being up to the royalty's expectatives isn't a reason to die or a capital crime under any circunstances, it may be in Japan with the bushido and all of that, but in this series there isn't that kind of culture, without a law or system that doesn't rewad or punish with proportionality no one will ever follow you, because they will just live wondering when they will be next if they get in your bad side for whatever reason, in a noble society stepping down from whatever duty you have is the standart and the logical thing, normally this societies don't allow to ask for more than that from an individual or family by both culture and law.

The matter of Rio, people certainly looked down on Rio due to his lack of status, but that isn't exclusive of Beltram, it is the same everywhere, the thing is, the decision of framing Rio was never a matter of discrimination, Stead certainly accused Rio for the sake of harassment and forcing him to leave the academy, but everything beyond that was outside his expectatives, Rio being framed was a combination of bad timing and calculating winning and loses, I already said this several times and I will say it again, Philip's decision was right, at least as a king, the twelve years old Rio never showed anything that would make him worth losing control of the kingdom's army just for his sake and even if Philip had taken his side on the matter Rio would never be loyal to Bertram or its royalty or change his plans of leaving the kingdom, Philip was doomed to regret to have taken Rio's side whatever the reason, the only possible mistake Philip can be accused of is to not foresee Reis' involvement and Rio isn't innocent of tht either precisely.

About the next volume, I think Rio will talk of his life in the Bertram Kingdom and the Karasuki Kingdom, but everything will remain a secret, basically because Rio wil find it a bother to tell the truth and dealing with the aftermath.

The possible repercusions of the framing incident, they completely depend on Rio, not in Helmut or anyone else, for Helmut this incident is just material for bad propaganda and that's it, as the aggravated party it is completely on Rio what kind of things to ask for in exchange of his troubles and who can be held accountable of what happened, if Rio, the aggravated party, designates Christina and Flora as innocent bystanders that's it, even more if they help Rio to clean his name and with the summary of the incident detailing that the two of them never accused Rio of anything, whatever attemp on the sisters Rio can thwart it by being given Celia and/or Flora without conditions attached, truth being told I can very easily imagine Charlotte pushing for this and including Christina in the pack so she, Liselotte and Satsuki would need to be part of Rio's harem for balancing how many influence Beltram could try to exert on Rio, if the sisters already apologized with everything they can it is simply impossible to even speak ill of them, something like that may even release Philip of any responsibility too, because he would be already paying for it with his daughter/s. Hugenot and Garcia are different, but it is not like Rio has a blank check for asking for whatever he wants, Rio at most could ask for a monetaty compensation and/or for Hugenot's and Garcia's retirements in favor of their hyphotetical succesors, he won't be allowed or anyone else to ask for anyone's life under any circunstances, what was done to Rio isn't in any case a capital crime just because Rio is the MC, the society will never allow of someone of common origin o demand for more from a noble regardless of his battle prowess.

Rio's royal origin: Homura will never reveal Rio to the public without his consent, and Rio will never allow that for two reasons. 1, If Homura recognizes Rio he will unavoidably suffer any kind of setback from the general public or/and a rival fraction, Rio will never allow that. 2, If Rio has his status recognized he will have to be up to the possible responsibilities that come with it, responsibilities Rio doesn't want to know anything about.

The possible repercussions of Rio's origins being known, just one more thing to add to his legend, a thing to gossip about at bars and parties at maximum, a lot of people in the Stralh region don't even know about Yagumo's existence, it won't have much of an effect, having ties with the Yagumo region isn't worth it because it is impossible to gain or lose anything from that bond, for the kingdoms of both sides it is completely impossible to take any friendly or hostile action towards each other, the people from the Stral region can't reach the Yagumo region and the elites of the Yagumo region need more than a year for crossing the wilderness, and even after all of that effor the most that they can manage is approach any king just for making their existence known and having to spend more than a year on going back without anything to show for their problems. Galarc was never in some kind of alliance with Rokuren, that's why being friendly to someone from the Karasuki kingdom can't never create any problem for them, even if Rio's status in the Galarc Kingdom and his relationship with Zen and Ayame were to be known in the Karasuki Kingdom, again, it would just be nothing more than gossip material, the general populace and unknowing nobles may be indignant about Ayame's and Zen's child making it big in the Strall region despite the problems that they put Karasuki through and that's it, there isn't absolutely anything they can hold Homura accountable for because of that.

About Hiroaki, whatever attemp of picturing this guy as villain is seriously overthinking things, he doesn't have the gals for absolutely anything be it for good or for bad, Hiroaki is the mob in charge of the comic relief, nothing more and nothing less, Hiroaki is stupid but not the same kind of stupid that Renji and Takatrash.

About Aki, this girl is another typical victim of being believed more evil that she actually is and it isn't because of what she did in the books but because of people misremembering about what happened in the WN, everyone already treated her as some kind of villainess because of that but in the end she was just deceived by Takatrash into helping him, in the LN she helping Takatrash was just a moment of momentary madness due to the several emotional scars she carries and that's it, Aki's matter was never a matter of being a genuine bad person, it was just a moment of weakness and the current Aki is already cured of that idiotness thanks to Masato's efforts, Takatrash has no longer a hold of Aki's heart. @Snowbold just in case I will remember you again that Miharu, Aki and Masato upon arriving at the spirit folk's village were made to sign a magic contract that makes any possible action harmful to the spirit folk impossible for the three, even without the contract Aki would never do it anyway, you seriously overstimate how much Takatrash can control her and her lack of conscience.
On the Phillip part. While in a rational and legal system, that would be absolutely true. The issue is that we know none of them actually adhere to these laws. IIRC, Rio being tortured to confess because Arbor was afraid of the punishment his family would suffer if his family was blamed. And given what the Arbors did, is it really all that hard to believe that these nobles would just make up any excuse to get what they want? These nobles arbitrarily carry out the rules they want when they want. Also, Beltrum is an example of the very thing you mentioned "without a law or system that doesn't rewad or punish with proportionality no one will ever follow you, because they will just live wondering when they will be next if they get in your bad side for whatever reason".
This country is so rotten that it is a wonder it lasted this long. Christina cringed when Francois made a comment about incentives for loyalty by rewarding valor, because her country doesn't do that, they frame the competent for fear of losing status.

I mentioned way back that framing Rio as the king would have been useful if that wasn't the only realist political decision he made. Phillip clearly struggled to do anything substantive as king, as you mentioned about holding the Arbors back. He had stripped the Arbors of their power in Volume 1 and in a few years they were able to get it all back and then some. Even with Reiss, that shows an issue of capability in both his followers and his leadership. If Phillip's reign was highlighted by multiple morally repugnant but politically smart choices, then framing Rio would not be so jarring. But his ineptness elsewhere is what is off-putting.

On Rio's ancestry. I guess the gossip and its effect depend on how it spreads and from who. Revealed by Reiss in public is different than revealed by Gregory or Francois. But I agree that formal acknowledgement is not likely going to happen.

I agree on Hiroaki.

On Aki and Seirei no Tami. I guess this is the legalese in me, but would that hold even if it was unintentional? Plus, I also mentioned that the village could become inadvertently brought up by some other factor. I previously mentioned how Gouki's entourage made it with children in a relatively short time (relative being the operative word lol). That would bring to question either: the truth of being from Yagumo and not somewhere else; how far Yagumo really is; or is there some pathway that is faster/more secure?
Also, Reiss knows about Seirei no Tami too. So he could plant the seeds.
Anyway, back to topic on Aki: Could Aki acknowledge the village in any scenario with no intent to harm it and that leads to it being harm because the existence is revealed or confirmed? Or is it an absolute ban on revealing its existence, period?

While I don't think Aki is quite on the level of villain, she is desperate to be loved. Is it so hard to believe that Takatrash would snap again, but this time carry out a more deceptive way that fools even Aki? Granted, I don't think that is likely right now. But he is willing to sink to any level to get what he wants, I can see him killing Aki to get Miharu if necessary.
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Old 2021-08-04, 05:54   Link #3600
Denker
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Join Date: Oct 2018
As much as I follow the logic of Philip, and can understand most f his decisions, he simply lacked the foresight of having to deal with the Proxia Empire's meddling into his internal affairs.
It may sound unfair, but this is exactly why, in a bloody monarchy of all things, its important to "clean house" and properly remove opposition. Otherwise, if they aren't the ones to get in your way, it will be external forces supporting them.
This is a tale as old as monarchy itself.

Still, I want to shout out to the absolute madlad that is @jagt as he went straight to making Philip offer his daughters to Rio as amends.
The reason Christina was terrified is not because "Rio is the MC, so if you wrong him you die" or even because he is crazy strong. Its because they mistreated royalty of all things. Didn't Christina herself say that even if he wasn't in the succession line, this still could be a problem?
And since you confirmed the enemy Kingdom of Karasuki isn't allied with Galwark, then thats even better, since there is nothing to suspect him of being a sort of infiltrator about.

I am convinced this would absolutely destroy Restoration.
Say what you want about Huguenot, he is one of the most important pillars there. Even if him framing + sending assassins after unrecognized royalty won't be punishable with death, he would be put in the shitlist of everyone around him.
Some may lose interest in being associated to him out of fear of being on the princessses + Rio's bad side, unless they were already in deep relations with him.
Yes, he would most likely have to "retire" and give up his title to his successor, but would he let it end like that? Someone like him wouldn't let go of his power.
This is why I like my idea of Reiss trying ot manipulate him.

Regardless, I am totally on board with your ideea. "Oh, we mistreated, framed and sent to kill the strongest man on the continent who is also royalty? Ok, marry my 2 daughters! Make love, not war! Speaking of war, since you got 2 princesses, would you mind taking the Proxia Empire off our territory, son-in-law?"
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