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Old 2021-07-05, 00:03   Link #61
Marcus H.
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People seemed to have forgotten that a show of twelve episodes long, especially a mystery anime, isn't entitled to make sense on the first episode. What's the point of the mystery if people already have a grasp of what happened by the end of the episode?

I think people should trust the storytelling process more. At least for now it's not gonna be a disaster of a story unlike Wonder Egg Priority.

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Not feeling this show so far. This looks like one of those shows where the girls are all over the main character as was the case with Siesta. I found neither of the two cases in Episode 1 interesting and feel the show is quite bland and uninspiring.
Siesta is a Holmesian character. Being charismatic and enchanting is part of her character, and we can safely say that, like how she flawlessly handled Koumori in the airplane hijacking case, she had Kimi at the palm of her hand from the start and has been planning to make an assistant out of him.
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Old 2021-07-05, 00:29   Link #62
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I guess I'll have to take your word for it for now. If the quality doesn't suffer a large dip at the end, it should at least be better than the train wreck that was Wonder Egg Priority as you said.
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Old 2021-07-05, 00:30   Link #63
magnuskn
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
Looks like I'm the only one with a more positive outlook on the series.
Nah, I found it quite charming all around. If it is a good detective series remains to be seen, although I kinda doubt it with the "I knew everything going into the mystery" angle, but I find the characters nice to hang around with. Which is enough to give this at least a few more episodes. It kinda reminds me of In/Spectre.
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Old 2021-07-05, 00:45   Link #64
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Not the best first episode. I wonder if she is dead dead or Sherlock Holmes dead.
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Old 2021-07-05, 07:21   Link #65
GDB
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
People seemed to have forgotten that a show of twelve episodes long, especially a mystery anime, isn't entitled to make sense on the first episode. What's the point of the mystery if people already have a grasp of what happened by the end of the episode?
The only mystery here is how she died, and they did nothing to make us care about why. They didn't even present it as a mystery, just "yep, she dead, moving on". There's nothing to hook us on any sort of mystery.

If you want a good example of not making sense but still hooking you, look at Id;Invaded. By the end of the second episode (using 2 episodes instead of 1 since this one was double length), we were left with the mystery of who Kaoru is, what happened to the MC to put him in his situation, who John Walker is, and what will happen with the short girl whose name I'm blanking on atm.

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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
Siesta is a Holmesian character. Being charismatic and enchanting is part of her character, and we can safely say that, like how she flawlessly handled Koumori in the airplane hijacking case, she had Kimi at the palm of her hand from the start and has been planning to make an assistant out of him.
In story she might be charismatic, but from a viewer perspective she's bland and somewhat generic. She gets things done because she's forceful and insistent, and the one she's ordering around is a middle schooler in the midst of puberty who has a cute girl ordering him around. There's zero charisma.
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Old 2021-07-05, 08:49   Link #66
Marcus H.
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The only mystery here is how she died, and they did nothing to make us care about why.
That is weird because the title alone should provide the tease about Siesta's fate. The Detective is Already Dead. People should have cared enough to watch a show that flaunted such a character death in a conspicuous way. Anyway, considering Sherlock Holmes faked his death in a few stories (which also manifested in other Sherlocks), it is possible that the "Already Dead" part is a lie. On the other hand, there's also a possibility that she is dead for good. There is still eleven episodes to explore what happened.

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In story she might be charismatic, but from a viewer perspective she's bland and somewhat generic.
Well, is the viewer perspective actually important in examining the merits or demerits of the story? We're just looking into some other world where none of our actions matter can affect the development of the story. Even if she is bland to the viewer, what matters is Kimihiko's point of view, and it is clear that Kimihiko was, like Koumori, easily swayed by her words.
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Old 2021-07-05, 09:54   Link #67
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
The only mystery here is how she died, and they did nothing to make us care about why. They didn't even present it as a mystery, just "yep, she dead, moving on". There's nothing to hook us on any sort of mystery.

If you want a good example of not making sense but still hooking you, look at Id;Invaded. By the end of the second episode (using 2 episodes instead of 1 since this one was double length), we were left with the mystery of who Kaoru is, what happened to the MC to put him in his situation, who John Walker is, and what will happen with the short girl whose name I'm blanking on atm.

In story she might be charismatic, but from a viewer perspective she's bland and somewhat generic. She gets things done because she's forceful and insistent, and the one she's ordering around is a middle schooler in the midst of puberty who has a cute girl ordering him around. There's zero charisma.
I think that's more dependent on the viewer. I've already seen people online calling her Best Girl of the Summer season and I personally enjoyed her, which gives an incentive to find out what happened to her in-between Kimi joining her and her apparent death, but tastes vary .
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Old 2021-07-05, 12:05   Link #68
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The first episode landed well from my perspective. If I'm landing anywhere on the spectrum between 'best girl' and 'bland' then I'd probably be closer to the best girl side. I think they did a solid job of establishing her character, Kimi's attraction to her, and creating the lure to see where things go from here.

Going the double episode route let them get to that key title point before moving forward. A couple decent adventures with the two that allows to predict how things played out for much of Kimi's middle school life. I'm honestly curious to see if she really is dead, if she faked her death, and where everything will end up going. There are definitely some directions they could go and it is leaving strong hints. But got to see it play out.

I do wonder how far Siesta's plan really went. Could have been on the surface level of using Kimi to get drawn towards crimes and closer to her target. But it could have also been expecting to die or intending to fake her own death. Thus using the chance to train Kimi to be a detective that could take her place and still help people. With the added bonus that he'd be more capable of protecting himself from the troubles that he would inevitably get drawn into.

If nothing else I liked the first episode. Can't say anything bad about a girl that loves pizza that much .
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Old 2021-07-05, 12:31   Link #69
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
If nothing else I liked the first episode. Can't say anything bad about a girl that loves pizza that much .
Pizza is more serious to her than naked boy and his dick .
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Old 2021-07-05, 12:55   Link #70
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Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
Pizza is more serious to her than naked boy and his dick .
She's certainly got her priorities .
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Old 2021-07-05, 13:33   Link #71
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Pizza is more serious to her than naked boy and his dick .
OMg... It's C.C!
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Old 2021-07-05, 13:58   Link #72
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Pizza is more serious to her than naked boy and his dick .
Was he saluting? Maybe it was limp.
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Old 2021-07-05, 14:21   Link #73
Klashikari
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Color me also quite disappointed by that episode. Honestly, I have hard time to even care about the characters because their interactions and personalities aren't really great in my books.
While I understand the first case was basically there to set the tone and acts as a semi world building plot device, it didn't give me a really good impression because Siesta would fare all the same without Kimi. Really, all that convoluted stuff with Siesta planning for Kimi involvement was kind of questionable because, let's face it, Kimi was pretty much pointless from start to finish. If she could plan all that stuff with Bat and his artificial human background, then surely she could simply bring the attaché case herself and deal with Bat with a slightly different plan in mind. Naturally, same goes for the Hanako-san case where Kimi's relevancy was practically null.
Yes, assistant/sidekick/watson character isn't supposed to steal the limelight from the Sherlockian character, but the problem is that the moment that type of character could be written off without any consequence, then it begs the question why they couldn't do it with just the main character instead.
This isn't helped by the fact that Kimi and Siesta's banter is really flat since Kimi's personality and motivations are really nonexistent, compounded by the fact that he can't be really witty to the point that his assertiveness at the start was extinguished on the spot.

I'm going to wait a little more, but for a series that tries really hard in term of production value, it really fell flat due to its narrative and that really looks like the source material fault at this point.
That said, another complaint I have for that series is the soundtrack. I have no idea what was the composer smocking, but it sounds so out of place it isn't even funny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
People seemed to have forgotten that a show of twelve episodes long, especially a mystery anime, isn't entitled to make sense on the first episode. What's the point of the mystery if people already have a grasp of what happened by the end of the episode?
The show doesn't really have that luxury because the first episode is double in length, thus it should already have established some proper setting and early characters traits, which it did but not in a satisfying fashion. After all, most series with a single cour has to cover the introduction within 2-3 episodes, lest the pace being completely clunky otherwise.
In my books, the "main" mystery about Siesta being dead (or not) isn't the real issue. The problem is that the series doesn't give me any reason to care even so slightly about the characters because one is absolutely broken to the point she could be a one man army (a super detective who has near super human abilities) while the other character is as bland as your usual romcom doormat guy. I don't expect the story to go full exposition with the artificial humans and/or that secret organization, but that's really all we have here, so there is little to nothing to be curious about, except wondering if the title of the series isn't a bait.
The series doesn't have to follow Hyouka's formula and it has its own merits such as the really good action parts, but if the individual cases aren't intriguing enough, then it is natural that part of the audience won't be really impressed if the characters can't even humor them.
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Old 2021-07-05, 17:18   Link #74
bakato
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
That is weird because the title alone should provide the tease about Siesta's fate. The Detective is Already Dead. People should have cared enough to watch a show that flaunted such a character death in a conspicuous way. Anyway, considering Sherlock Holmes faked his death in a few stories (which also manifested in other Sherlocks), it is possible that the "Already Dead" part is a lie. On the other hand, there's also a possibility that she is dead for good. There is still eleven episodes to explore what happened.

Well, is the viewer perspective actually important in examining the merits or demerits of the story? We're just looking into some other world where none of our actions matter can affect the development of the story. Even if she is bland to the viewer, what matters is Kimihiko's point of view, and it is clear that Kimihiko was, like Koumori, easily swayed by her words.
You're expecting us to commit to a show before even watching the first episode? People came to this show looking for a reason to care. I can't believe I have to say this but watching a premiere has never been an act of commitment. It's the influence of marketing and curiosity.

Is there some other way of evaluating merits? This is not a world. It's a story being told for the purpose of entertainment by giving us the illusion of a world. At least, I think it's supposed to be. If she was charismatic, we should know it. For a show to tell us a character is charismatic, but unable to convince the viewers is a failure no matter how you dice it. It's like those wish-fulfillment webnovels telling us a character is incredibly smart by making everyone else stupid.

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Color me also quite disappointed by that episode. Honestly, I have hard time to even care about the characters because their interactions and personalities aren't really great in my books.
While I understand the first case was basically there to set the tone and acts as a semi world building plot device, it didn't give me a really good impression because Siesta would fare all the same without Kimi. Really, all that convoluted stuff with Siesta planning for Kimi involvement was kind of questionable because, let's face it, Kimi was pretty much pointless from start to finish. If she could plan all that stuff with Bat and his artificial human background, then surely she could simply bring the attaché case herself and deal with Bat with a slightly different plan in mind. Naturally, same goes for the Hanako-san case where Kimi's relevancy was practically null.
Yes, assistant/sidekick/watson character isn't supposed to steal the limelight from the Sherlockian character, but the problem is that the moment that type of character could be written off without any consequence, then it begs the question why they couldn't do it with just the main character instead.
This isn't helped by the fact that Kimi and Siesta's banter is really flat since Kimi's personality and motivations are really nonexistent, compounded by the fact that he can't be really witty to the point that his assertiveness at the start was extinguished on the spot.

I'm going to wait a little more, but for a series that tries really hard in term of production value, it really fell flat due to its narrative and that really looks like the source material fault at this point.
That said, another complaint I have for that series is the soundtrack. I have no idea what was the composer smocking, but it sounds so out of place it isn't even funny.


The show doesn't really have that luxury because the first episode is double in length, thus it should already have established some proper setting and early characters traits, which it did but not in a satisfying fashion. After all, most series with a single cour has to cover the introduction within 2-3 episodes, lest the pace being completely clunky otherwise.
In my books, the "main" mystery about Siesta being dead (or not) isn't the real issue. The problem is that the series doesn't give me any reason to care even so slightly about the characters because one is absolutely broken to the point she could be a one man army (a super detective who has near super human abilities) while the other character is as bland as your usual romcom doormat guy. I don't expect the story to go full exposition with the artificial humans and/or that secret organization, but that's really all we have here, so there is little to nothing to be curious about, except wondering if the title of the series isn't a bait.
The series doesn't have to follow Hyouka's formula and it has its own merits such as the really good action parts, but if the individual cases aren't intriguing enough, then it is natural that part of the audience won't be really impressed if the characters can't even humor them.
Coming off the heels of Vivy, this premiere is sorely lacking. Vivy had a double episode premiere too, but it only took one to establish the primary plot, world, motivations, goals, characters, and it got us to care about the characters to boot. Vivy and Matsumoto's banter was a joy to listen to. Then it hit us with hard-core robot action to accompany their first adventure in the second episode complete with EXPLOSIONS and a killer soundtrack that EXISTS. All before leaving us with a dark cliffhanger craving more.
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Old 2021-07-05, 18:30   Link #75
serenade_beta
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I've already seen people online calling her Best Girl of the Summer season
Just because she is a dumb silver-haired girl?
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Old 2021-07-05, 19:04   Link #76
Marcus H.
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Originally Posted by Klashikari
The show doesn't really have that luxury because the first episode is double in length, thus it should already have established some proper setting and early characters traits, which it did but not in a satisfying fashion. After all, most series with a single cour has to cover the introduction within 2-3 episodes, lest the pace being completely clunky otherwise.
Every anime works differently, Tantei included. I cannot talk about the plot structure of the story one episode into the series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari
The problem is that the series doesn't give me any reason to care even so slightly about the characters [...]. I don't expect the story to go full exposition with the artificial humans and/or that secret organization, but that's really all we have here, so there is little to nothing to be curious about, except wondering if the title of the series isn't a bait.

The series doesn't have to follow Hyouka's formula and it has its own merits such as the really good action parts, but if the individual cases aren't intriguing enough, then it is natural that part of the audience won't be really impressed if the characters can't even humor them.
Fair enough. But for me, I tend to give lots of leeway to the shows I pick up. I know that anime is simply for entertainment value and, as such, it will be judged simply based on how much I enjoy it. That said, I also adjust my perceptions of the show as much as I can so that the anime watching experience is as enjoyable as possible.

Tantei is definitely no Hyouka, but this so-called step down in quality will never stop me from trying to make a positive experience out of it.

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Originally Posted by bakato
You're expecting us to commit to a show before even watching the first episode? People came to this show looking for a reason to care. I can't believe I have to say this but watching a premiere has never been an act of commitment. It's the influence of marketing and curiosity.
It might be part of my no-drop mindset, but for me, picking up a show is already a commitment in itself. It will never leave my anime list unless it's so bad that the only way to deal with it is to remove it from the list entirely. Even outright disappointments like The Holmes of Kyoto Teramachi Sanjou were finished and rated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bakato
Is there some other way of evaluating merits? This is not a world. It's a story being told for the purpose of entertainment by giving us the illusion of a world. At least, I think it's supposed to be. If she was charismatic, we should know it. For a show to tell us a character is charismatic, but unable to convince the viewers is a failure no matter how you dice it. It's like those wish-fulfillment webnovels telling us a character is incredibly smart by making everyone else stupid.
Already stated my view on evaluating merits above: it's all gonna boil down to entertainment value. If it's entertaining, regardless of its apparent problems in storytelling, then it will be merited as such. I personally have no time to dwell on negative insights on certain anime like I did when Mahouka was airing.

I will not give any further comments on Siesta's charisma. It's a very subjective topic. We're not gonna end up agreeing anyway.
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Continuing from Winter 2021: Maiko-san Chi no Makanai-san (6/12).
Summer 2021: The Case Study of Vanitas (6/12), Realist Hero (12/13), The Detective is Already Dead (6/12), Isekai Drugstore (11/12), Kobayashi's Maidragon S (11/12) and White Sand Aquatope (6/24).


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Old 2021-07-05, 21:04   Link #77
Frontier
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Color me also quite disappointed by that episode. Honestly, I have hard time to even care about the characters because their interactions and personalities aren't really great in my books.
While I understand the first case was basically there to set the tone and acts as a semi world building plot device, it didn't give me a really good impression because Siesta would fare all the same without Kimi. Really, all that convoluted stuff with Siesta planning for Kimi involvement was kind of questionable because, let's face it, Kimi was pretty much pointless from start to finish. If she could plan all that stuff with Bat and his artificial human background, then surely she could simply bring the attaché case herself and deal with Bat with a slightly different plan in mind. Naturally, same goes for the Hanako-san case where Kimi's relevancy was practically null.
Yes, assistant/sidekick/watson character isn't supposed to steal the limelight from the Sherlockian character, but the problem is that the moment that type of character could be written off without any consequence, then it begs the question why they couldn't do it with just the main character instead.
This isn't helped by the fact that Kimi and Siesta's banter is really flat since Kimi's personality and motivations are really nonexistent, compounded by the fact that he can't be really witty to the point that his assertiveness at the start was extinguished on the spot.
My understanding is that Kimi's ability brings all these different elements together to where Siesta can solve the case and deal with the problem, so a plane trip he's on gets hijacked by a terrorist group who also happen to be funneling drugs through his school.

I thought he was a nice straight man to Siesta's antics, but your mileage may vary.
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Just because she is a dumb silver-haired girl?
Uh...I'm not sure people thought she was dumb, but probably more to it than that .
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Old 2021-07-05, 22:53   Link #78
FlareKnight
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There is such intense hatred for Siesta floating around that I had to double check that I had watched the right show . Nothing can prove how subjective loving or hating a character can be than this topic. Though I wouldn’t say many like her purely because of hair colour .

Plus I think it is bad karma to speak ill of the dead. Presuming she’s really dead…
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Old 2021-07-05, 23:54   Link #79
serenade_beta
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There is such intense hatred for Siesta floating around that I had to double check that I had watched the right show . Nothing can prove how subjective loving or hating a character can be than this topic. Though I wouldn’t say many like her purely because of hair colour .

Plus I think it is bad karma to speak ill of the dead. Presuming she’s really dead…
That's what happens when a person spends 50 minutes listening to her having the most boring of conversations with the so-called middle-schooler.
There is only so much leverage being a silver-haired anime girl can get you.
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Old 2021-07-06, 00:04   Link #80
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Yeah, I found her conversations with Kimihiko quite boring too. If Siesta is supposed to be some enchanting character, the anime adaptation completely failed to depict that.
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