Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[Sir Dearka]

I grew up on Mazinger, Daimos and Saber Rider and the Star Sheriffs. But I got into the Gundam franchise thanks to SEED. Nostalgia does not stop me from learning new things and calling me a person that does not have a "true mecha spirit" sounds a lot like old German saying that a young German does not have this "dignified" old German spirit, if you get what I mean. Yup, it's discrimination. Discrimination of the younger generations of Gundam fans, regardless of their true age.

Heck guys, "seedlings", as you call them at least got enthusiasm and keep the franchise alive. It's not like all of those who watched Gundam back in '79 remained devoted.

[C.A.]

And did you have a good and equal views of anime from each decade? The 80's was the golden age, but the 90's was really the best of mecha and now its nearing the end of this first decade of the 21st century, you can say it was a pretty average decade for mecha. With truly great ones in the form of Eureka 7, Top wo Nerae!2 and TTGL, but lots of other lackluster ones.

My argument is that 'this generation', thinks they have seen awesome stuff, but they do not want to look back and acknowledge the other great anime that happened.

And I didn't really discriminate, I did compare the differences and the difference is undoubtedly there, its too great to ignore.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by C.A.

And did you have a good and equal views of anime from each decade? The 80's was the golden age, but the 90's was really the best of mecha and now its nearing the end of this first decade of the 21st century, you can say it was a pretty average decade for mecha. With truly great ones in the form of Eureka 7, Top wo Nerae!2 and TTGL, but lots of other lackluster ones.

My argument is that 'this generation', thinks they have seen awesome stuff, but they do not want to look back and acknowledge the other great anime that happened.

And I didn't really discriminate, I did compare the differences and the difference is undoubtedly there, its too great to ignore.

You depicted it as if the newer generations were in some way worse than the old one. As for Nineties, I've seen Patlabor and Neon Genesis Evangelion (if it can be called a mecha anime...). Though I don't know what this whole "equal views" interrogation is about, Herr Braun...

EDIT: and yeah, forgot about Macross...

[C.A.]

Well this generation brought: Trolling, Trainwrecks, Shipping Wars and other 'lulz'. Added to what I said on my previous big post.

For the equal views, I think I also didn't put it quite well. I mean whether you had watched a constant amount of mecha anime over the years. If you did you would have seen that while 80's had the greatest amount of mecha anime and was the golden age, 90's despite having less, had the best quality in mecha. Then it dropped when the 21st century took over.

Anyway I'll be sleeping now.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by C.A.

Well this generation brought: Trolling, Trainwrecks, Shipping Wars and other 'lulz'. Added to what I said on my previous big post.

For the equal views, I think I also didn't put it quite well. I mean whether you had watched a constant amount of mecha anime over the years. If you did you would have seen that while 80's had the greatest amount of mecha anime and was the golden age, 90's despite having less, had the best quality in mecha. Then it dropped when the 21st century took over.

Anyway I'll be sleeping now.

It's your opinion. Judging from your age (you are six years younger), it seems quite natural for you to praise the nineties so much. You grew up on those cartoons just as I grew up on mine. And I am a SEED fan. Call me the bringer of troll, trainwreck, shipping wars and "lulz" all you like. It's just that it is an obvious ignorance.

[yezhanquan]

My problem with Destiny really boils down to the recaps. Those clip shows in no way invoke the Rule of Cool. I can forgive (almost) everything else, but showing the same things over and over again is bad. Period.

[Sir Dearka]

I think the money pumped for Destiny was not as big as that for 00. And less money, means less work for animators. But well, we should ask Sunrise managers to make sure this is the issue.

[C.A.]

Actually I've seen more 80's anime before I got into fansubs to watch those 90's anime, what I end up with is seeing alot of mecha anime. And I don't praise the 90's because I watch them the most, it is what we mecha fans and especially SRW fans, come to agree on.

Honestly the biggest mecha fans are the SRW players. Watching mecha anime is like watching soccer. Playing SRW is likely playing soccer. We SRW players are like soccer fans who watch soccer and also play it. General mecha fans who watch mecha anime only are just audience, they don't get into the sport, they do not know what it really feels like when you're in it. With each new SRW, we watch whatever series they've shown and over the years, we've accumulated a long list of titles and have gotten a more median view of a large pool. We are able to see a group of anime that were the best and able to identify more gems than others.

My point ultimately is the so called mecha fans of this generation think they've watched alot of good stuff but do not have the intention to look for even greater ones in the past. Its like eating the bread crust or the skin of a fruit and throwing away the main flesh, the part that's actually the tastiest.
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Anyway GSD suffered from so many recaps, dragged out episodes by reused scenes because of Fukuda's wife. She had many times handed in the script late, stopping the animation team from animating anything of significance and causing a landslide towards the end that can't be saved.

[D-KLAC]

one question for everyone do ya really have a problems with clip-shows in anime series???

besides you GSD was had those to show it past to those who are not familar with GS & yet remember it past.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by SonicX_Zero

Do you have any data to back this up like sales reports or TV ratings? I mean how do you know that interest in Gundam in general was developed because of Turn-A that later caught on with GS? I'm curious about during that time and would like to read some data as to how Gundam performed back then as you claim.

There won't be any such data because Turn A was a semi-flop. Even if you don't have access to the sales figures, a handy way to gauge the relative success of a show is to look at the range of model kits that are lavished on it. Victory, Turn A and Gundam X were among the least popular shows, and as a result, they get very little love from Bandai.

Originally Posted by C.A.

If one doesn't have that passion for mecha its hard to put it into him when he old. Most people who are really into mecha, me included, have grown up watching mecha anime. People who have never seen mecha, cannot get into mecha easily if they're at an older age.

That doesn't make any sense at all. If a genre can only attract fans as children, then it's going to be one that has no appeal for adults at all. It's even more telling given that there are children's anime out there which still have that appeal.

The idea that one has to be fanatical to enjoy a particular genre is nonsensical as well.

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

My problem with Destiny really boils down to the recaps. Those clip shows in no way invoke the Rule of Cool. I can forgive (almost) everything else, but showing the same things over and over again is bad. Period.

This is something that sort of confuses me. It's not exactly hard to skip the recap episodes, so why should they drag down a show to any great degree?

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

I think the money pumped for Destiny was not as big as that for 00. And less money, means less work for animators. But well, we should ask Sunrise managers to make sure this is the issue.

The problem with Destiny's recaps wasn't an issue of money. They had all sorts of production difficulties, so they had to resort to easy-to-produce episodes to let the staff catch up.

Originally Posted by SonicX_Zero

Anyway GSD suffered from so many recaps, dragged out episodes by reused scenes because of Fukuda's wife. She had many times handed in the script late, stopping the animation team from animating anything of significance and causing a landslide towards the end that can't be saved.

I've seen this claim a lot, but I have yet to see a single credible piece of corroborating evidence. The problem of late scripts is something I don't doubt at all, but that's something that can usually be attributed to creative differences than anything else. In the case of Destiny, this is a much more credible explanation for what happened.

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

That doesn't make any sense at all. If a genre can only attract fans as children, then it's going to be one that has no appeal for adults at all. It's even more telling given that there are children's anime out there which still have that appeal.

The idea that one has to be fanatical to enjoy a particular genre is nonsensical as well.

I knew you would be coming here.

The idea is not attractiing children or adults. The idea is building up or nurturing of a passion over a long time, over years, usually from young. I made the comparison to music, adults can learn music as well. But for an adult to learn, he must have a great innate passion for it and the interest to put their heart into it, not just learning the new, but also the old. An adult can get into mecha anime if he has an innate passion, love for giant humanoid robots, but he will never be as great as a fan than those who spent their entire lives growing up on mecha.

There's a reason why artists always have to learn from the great artists of the past, not just for music, but art, dancing and everything else. not looking back and not spending a great amount of time in the art will not make you a great artist.

I can also relate it directly to anime, anime itself is an art form, an animation art, a story. You don't call yourself a big fan, fully understanding your favourite genre if you have seen nothing of before.

I was asked how can some one get this mecha spirit and my answer is look back at the past mecha, and if you have alot of the right ones, you may get the same passion.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by C.A.

There's a reason why artists always have to learn from the great artists of the past, not just for music, but art, dancing and everything else. not looking back and not spending a great amount of time in the art will not make you a great artist.

I can also relate it directly to anime, anime itself is an art form, an animation art, a story. You don't call yourself a big fan, fully understanding your favourite genre if you have seen nothing of before.

I understand what you are saying, and I applaud your intense devotion, but you seem to be going a little overboard.

While context is important, since these series are generally stand alone, understanding the context of a series only adds to the dimensions of the series, it does not intrinsically make a series better than it actually is. For instance, SEED and Destiny (or the recent TTGL) are extraordinarily fun to watch just to spot the obvious homages to other Gundam series (as well as other Sunrise series, or in the case of TTGL almost every possible mecha series ). But, SEED and Destiny can be fully enjoyed by the non-initiated just as much as the initiated. So, while context can add an extra layer to a series, it is by no means a necessary component to understanding a specific series (unless said series is supposed to be a direct parody, but since it is a parody, then it must be discussed differently), and consequently should not be deemed as the only means by which to rank fans (of mecha).

That being said, as an aside I am not a true fan of mecha anime, rather I am a fan of Sci-Fi anime . Whether a giant robot is used in the series, or not, is not a detterent to my viewing pleasures. Rather, it is the stories being told, and the characters fighting for their convictions, that are ultimately important to be. The coolness of the giant robots/mobile suits is always secondary to the actual story being told.

---

That being said, I liked SEED and Destiny for their Shounen sentimentalities as well as the basic world created in the series. I wouldn't mind seeing a Part III to the series, but I doubt there is really that much of a demand for a full length movie to a series that ended several years ago (then again, if EVA and Macross can come back after a decade plus nap, then why not SEED after only a few years?). That being said, I am far more interested in the Armored Trooper VOTOMS movie supposedly coming out later this year, and of course the Gundam 00 movie scheduled for next year, so a new SEED progect would have to be kept on the back burner for awhile longer.

[C.A.]

Well, my original argument was pretty simple, but it had to grow big lol

I was mainly targeting of all people, KLAC, who goes around talking about 'this generation', along with other 'Sunrise Experts', who think they've seen the best of mecha can offer. They call themselves mecha fans yet they do not have any intention of watching or appreciate the great classics that came before.

Also they're thinking that this generation is the greatest, but I'm just pointing out there were even greater examples back then. Yes you can enjoy the anime of this generation, but you're being ignorant if you think you've seen it all.

There's also a reason they've remade a number of classics, Reideen, Gaiking, Shin Jeeg, Dancougar Nova etc. Nobody watched them, this new generation, nobody cared. And even for those who did watch any of these, most of these anime do not live up to the original versions. Mazinger Z is coming up next, instead of a remake, it focuses on the original manga instead of an adaptation for kids like the original anime. Mazinger Z is the very first piloted robot, the original mecha, if anyone calls himself a mecha fan, he should watch that.

[Rising Dragon]

As interesting as this topic is, you guys are terribly off-topic, and should get back on topic before 4Tran comes in and starts deleting posts.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by C.A.

Well, my original argument was pretty simple, but it had to grow big lol

I was mainly targeting of all people, KLAC, who goes around talking about 'this generation', along with other 'Sunrise Experts', who think they've seen the best of mecha can offer. They call themselves mecha fans yet they do not have any intention of watching or appreciate the great classics that came before.

Also they're thinking that this generation is the greatest, but I'm just pointing out there were even greater examples back then. Yes you can enjoy the anime of this generation, but you're being ignorant if you think you've seen it all.

And your unclear target-specification, in this case D-KLAC, just made me think you consider most newer generation fans as "trolls, bringers of trainwreck and lulz". The SEEDlings, you call it. Now I am confused and I just leave topic at that. I just want to say I don't like Gundam fans with attitude as yours. Too condescending to bear at times. Seems like you want it to be 'elite'. The football fan that condescends to others just because they are not that much into football as him but probably just like to share the excitement with the whole world during major events... that's just equally pathetic to me... Same ignorance, same close-mindedness. Everybody can be a football fan as long as they put some heart into it just like everybody can feel the "mecha spirit" if they accept it and then join us mecha fans in our interests.

And you may or may not have watched more mecha anime than anyone else. But mind that it is by no means the factor that gives you right to claim yourself a "true mecha fan yeah"

Ok, off-topic, maybe. But the one that often surfaces when SEEd series are considered...

[ila-chan]

So we're back at declaring war against D-KLAC? The irony... I've been here before.

Regardless of what era, or what generation, every Gundam has its own fanbase. One thing for sure, a NEW Gundam series will be expected to fare better than its predessor. Most of them.

For me, as much as Zeta was better than MSG, ZZ for me sucks. Just like Wing was good, SEED was better. But Destiny was not. I think the reason why Destiny even existed in the first place was because of it's popularity (I had a friend who hates mecha series suddenly hooked on SEED because she's a fan of Ishida Akira). There's even a rumour saying that female fan hooked on SEED in full gear, although Wing had their own male harem.

As much as Gundam this vs Gundam that, this topic is entirely off coursed now. After 3 years, we should just bury this thread. There's nothing to talk about, especially pertaining to Gundam SEED 3 (hence the thread, Gundam SEED trilogy).

[D-KLAC]

great now ya want to throw in me the KLAC & those gs fans???

really have even remember GSD was part of gundam 25th year & besides it was honor the history of gundam & give the fans what they wanted.

& if you anime fans these days well really there just so "creative" but look GSD was to remember it histroy.

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

I just want to say I don't like Gundam fans with attitude as yours. Too condescending to bear at times. Seems like you want it to be 'elite'. The football fan that condescends to others just because they are not that much into football as him but probably just like to share the excitement with the whole world during major events... that's just equally pathetic to me... Same ignorance, same close-mindedness. Everybody can be a football fan as long as they put some heart into it just like everybody can feel the "mecha spirit" if they accept it and then join us mecha fans in our interests.

And you may or may not have watched more mecha anime than anyone else. But mind that it is by no means the factor that gives you right to claim yourself a "true mecha fan yeah"

In all forms of passions and practices, there's always different levels of involvement and contributions.

The word is respect, a word that has been long forgotten over time.

I'll respect anyone who has a greater passion than me, anyone who knows more on the subject than me. But I also respect anyone who has the same passion or wishes to join this passion that we have, in this case mecha. The respect is the same if its established.

But respect can be broken, as in this case, KLAC, who thinks he knows alot and is spouting nonsense all over the place. He loses my respect for him and thus I have to sound rude and condescending.

But you, Sir Dearka, I do respect you and acknowledge you as a mecha fan, especially since you understand that passion can bring one that far.

Here in Asia, the word 'True' refers to the ultimate form. When I say 'to become a true mecha fan', its an impossible thing, because to attain the truth, you must have followed the path all the way without stopping. And the path to truth is neverending. But at the same time, the path itself is the truth, and the one who stayed on it, is one who is true. I have followed mecha all my life, I consider myself a true mecha fan, because I'm constantly on this path.

Anyway I have this sort of thinking because I'm a martial artist and an artist, and I have a very traditional Asian mind. I'll leave here it here, anyway its not that I want to start on this mecha spirit topic, SonicX_Zero wanted to know, so I just followed.

[D-KLAC]

Originally Posted by C.A.

In all forms of passions and practices, there's always different levels of involvement and contributions.

The word is respect, a word that has been long forgotten over time.

I'll respect anyone who has a greater passion than me, anyone who knows more on the subject than me. But I also respect anyone who has the same passion or wishes to join this passion that we have, in this case mecha. The respect is the same if its established.

But respect can be broken, as in this case, KLAC, who thinks he knows alot and is spouting nonsense all over the place. He loses my respect for him and thus I have to sound rude and condescending.

But you, Sir Dearka, I do respect you and acknowledge you as a mecha fan, especially since you understand that passion can bring one that far.

Here in Asia, the word 'True' refers to the ultimate form. When I say 'to become a true mecha fan', its an impossible thing, because to attain the truth, you must have followed the path all the way without stopping. And the path to truth is neverending. But at the same time, the path itself is the truth, and the one who stayed on it, is one who is true. I have followed mecha all my life, I consider myself a true mecha fan, because I'm constantly on this path.

Anyway I have this sort of thinking because I'm a martial artist and an artist, and I have a very traditional Asian mind. I'll leave here it here, anyway its not that I want to start on this mecha spirit topic, SonicX_Zero wanted to know, so I just followed.

what hoi hoi look i'm just a bit creative side & yet GS series was inspirational/live change moment.

really if ya say so much in forums then why do you say in person?

yet it because so many different anime these days, anime etc & generation of anime fans that it's hard to find a true neutral equal anime fan.

& back to GS future really just wait till morosawa's full recover or when someone finish her work then gsm & maybe 3rd gs?

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

This is something that sort of confuses me. It's not exactly hard to skip the recap episodes, so why should they drag down a show to any great degree?

The recaps don't only occur for those whole episodes. Almost every episode begins with a clip show akin to "Previously on ......". THOSE are the ones that tick me off. It's not very pleasant having to keep adjusting the video to determine whether a part of the ep is new.

If anything, the recaps occupying full episodes are in some ways better, if you don't bother watching at all and want a basic grasp of the plot to that point in time.