Macross Delta - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[stray]

Originally Posted by encia

Since the end of space war 1, Lady M of Chaos was researching the power of music and Dr Mao Nome is a candidate to be "Lady M".

Even though its hard to fit in the timeframe given I kinda hope its a Jenius.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by charles883

Here my theory who true culprit if based on Macross Plus plot and past episode

I think Keith are the one who drop the bomb although most likely not knowing what's the payload, My theory is that Keith was giving mission to drop bomb at NUNS base to end the war and bomb supply by Roid who claimed that this bomb will guarantee victory and win independence. What Keith doesn't know was that bomb is really Dimensional bomb which Roid purchase from other source which most likely Epsilon Foundation. During bombing run Wright somehow found out about the bomb and fly to stop the bomber. However when he found out the bomber is Keith, he fly at the side of Keith and try to convince Keith to stop due to he unable to shoot down child. However Keith rather trust Roid and drop the bomb. The reason Keith does not remember is I think due to his head injuries. After all he did crash his SV and receive head injuries after bombing and possible trauma block that memories. Then Roid use that as propaganda and achieve goal of independence. After all Roid did not denied that Voldor elder accusation on Windermere the one drop Dimensional bomb on their own planet.

Or Wright got Var by Roid to drop bomb or Roid himself the one who drop the bomb. Or Wright found out the dark secret weapon that potentially destroy planet Windermere and forced to use dimensional bomb to stop awakening of terrible weapon.

What do you guys think?

Why would Keith, who loves the skies of windermere over all and everything taint his himself by dropping a bomb on his planet? Sorry, this make not very much sense. Further your theory is getting obsolete with episode 15, when Roid was talking with Keith in the limo and there was a small memory when they were young. The crashed plane in the background was not a VF-22 and it also shows the crest of windermere.

I think we are thinking too difficult, although the reason is already presented which is Mikumo and her real origin. there are people who were seeking benefits of her heritage regardless of the casualties. For some reason Wright got involved in this reseach and he dropped the bomb on purpose to prevent that the wrong people get Mikumo in their hand. That he ended the war is only used as a decoy to hide the true intention of the military facility, which was gene manipulation by creating clones of the wind singer.

On the theory what or who killed Wright. Currently I would bet that it was Roid who killed him right after he landed with his plane. He is the one who developed or showed himself as the real antagonist with his latest action and who currently looks like he is searching for personal benefits, while Keith turns out to be a loyal nationalist truly devoted to the throne of windermere. If Thess is correct with mentioning that Roids family is related to the temple on carlisle, then there are two persons who seek to avenge for the deaths of their family members. One is Bogue, who is just stupid but young and on the other side Roid, who is deeper tied on the crusade of getting rid of NUN. There inbetween is Epsilon foundation who is seeking for another weapon to add to their portfolio and supporting therefore windermeres war machinery.

[charles883]

Remember the bomb target was the NUNS base and my theory that he thought that he destroy base only and I did say he was Not aware the bomb payload. Also video only show side of Vf-22 which can be interpret many ways Father Hentai

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by charles883

The flashback shows that he was piloting SV and crash landed after bombing.

This, in itself, is your own answer.

How could he drop a bomb on Windermere and outrun the explosion in order to live if he isn't even a good pilot yet at that point in his life? It'd be a suicide mission for him and he'd be dead in Delta. However, he is not and is now an official ace pilot.

This is reminding me of Ozma insisting Alto is a rookie/trainee in Frontier and saying his hotheaded nature will get him killed if he had no skill/talent and training.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by charles883

Remember the bomb target was the NUNS base and my theory that he thought that he destroy base only and I did say he was Not aware the bomb payload. Also video only show side of Vf-22 which can be interpret many ways Father Hentai

The flashback in episode 15 speaks against your theory.

[charles883]

Which why I gives alternate like Wright is first victim of Vars? Also that the video shows side of VF-22, not whole picture yet? AND how they able to film VF-22 flight bombing alongside with VF-22 as if they plan to use it against NUNS

Based on side material and Arad, Wright is good person and LOVE children and that NO WAY he not knowing how powerful the bomb is much less He type of person NO WAY massacre innocent civilian.

I think another key is Frejya blocked memory where she saw something burning. Most likely she found Wright in VF wreckage and give Frejya secret evidence to hide it which show what truly happen in bombing.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by charles883

Here my theory who true culprit if based on Macross Plus plot and past episode

Keith has an entire chapter POV in the novelization that refutes your theory. He sortied with Andria's White Squad to stop the bomber and survived only because Andria ordered him to fly higher to intercept potential backup when the bomb went boom. He crashed and nearly died. Developed a massive PTSD and his personality gave a 180º (he was very similar to Hayate before that).

Like, if you want to pick a Windermerian for your theory, don't pick the one that is irrefutable not in that VF and whose main motivation to fight is to stop that from happening again, you know?

[charles883]

I see, I don't read side material. Sorry. Anyway hopefully we get to see full truth of bombing in next episode.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by charles883

I see, I don't read side material. Sorry. Anyway hopefully we get to see full truth of bombing in next episode.

The flashback scene of the anime where he's badly injured and Roid is helping him out is after the fact. Keith's pretty shaken by that incident. He used to be a carefree, expressive boy who openly loved his little brother. And this is why they shouldn't allow 12 years old to fight in a war.

Anyway, I'll say Keith is more important than Mirage as far as the story goes (there are three POV in Delta media: Hayate, Freyja and Keith).

Your theory wouldn't become truth even without this. Keith's meant to be Roid's rival and Roid is the antagonist (one of them), as far as the story goes. There's an emphasis on Heinz torn between Keith or Roid which is significant to the story. With Keith presented as the person that Heinz should turn to vs Roid's ambition. And Roid is unlikely to have something to do with it (IMO, I mean they could pull a stupid twist but I doubt it) because NT description of Roid is about someone with good intentions who lost his way thanks to his ambitious goal recently, so it seems kind of he isn't aware how lost he is in his ambition and it's a recent development rather than something that began 7 years ago.

Var was a thing after the Vajra left the galaxy, by the way, it's not really Windermere related (they just found a way to spread it on specific targets to control under Heinz which is very very recent - their first sortie about that was episode 1), but the var epidemy began on Frontier. So Wright wouldn't be the "first victim" even if he were infected. It's a galaxy wide issue.

[encia]

Originally Posted by stray

Even though its hard to fit in the timeframe given I kinda hope its a Jenius.

Mylene Flare Jenius is unlikely since She doesn't seems to be a researcher or scientist.

Sheryl Nome has enough $$ to bank roll Macross 25 Frontier's SMS group. The Nome family seems to be well resourced, hence there's a high probability that Dr Mao Nome owns her own private military company i.e. Chaos.

Spoiler for In terms of additional canon material:

Dr Mao Nome reverted to younger teenage state due to interaction with Her bio-fold receptors and Vars.

With Freyja's bio-fold receptors, there's a possibility Her lifespan could be extended with Vars inflection.
For bio-fold receptor holders, Vars inflection has benefits.

[charles883]

More like theory Wright are first mind controlled Vars victim

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by charles883

More like theory Wright are first mind controlled Vars victim

And your theory is proven wrong in both side media and in the anime itself. The Var infection began once Frontier ended the Vajra war in 2059. It's 2067 in Delta and the Windermere war is 7 years prior which places it in 2060; which means if Wright was infected, he wasn't the first! Which is, of course, what Thess more than implied to you, by the way.

This is one of those times where I wonder if we do all watch the same show in Delta.

[stray]

Originally Posted by encia

Mylene Flare Jenius is unlikely since She doesn't seems to be a researcher or scientist.

There's a lot of Jeniuses out there tho... Millia had 8 daughters I think. And wasn't it sort of implied Mao Nome was missing or dead in Frontier?

Can't think of any other minor characters it might be...

[encia]

Originally Posted by stray

There's a lot of Jeniuses out there tho... Millia had 8 daughters I think. And wasn't it sort of implied Mao Nome was missing or dead in Frontier?

Can't think of any other minor characters it might be...

Spoiler for additional info:

From wikia, Dr Mao Nome is alive and young i.e. Her body is back to Her Macross Zero state.

Vajra made their own experiments on Dr Mao Nome and the interaction between her bio-fold receptors and Vars caused Her body to revert back towards teenage state.

Read http://red-shoulders.blogspot.com.au...haracters.html
Mao Nome (Macross Zero): Sara's younger sister, Mao is fascinated by the technology and culture of the outside world. She quickly develops a crush on Shin after he crash-lands on the Mayan Island. Later in life, she will actualize her dreams by becoming the chief scientist of a research fleet after the first Space War. Sheryl Nome is her granddaughter.

Dr. Nome seems to be the strongest candidate for being Lady M.

[stray]

I mean its not that it doesn't kind of make sense but I think it would spread her backstory a bit thin considering how much she already had going on with the Vajra.

Ah well its not like the series is well written anyway.

[ippus]

Originally Posted by encia

Mylene Flare Jenius is unlikely since She doesn't seems to be a researcher or scientist.

Sheryl Nome has enough $$ to bank roll Macross 25 Frontier's SMS group. The Nome family seems to be well resourced, hence there's a high probability that Dr Mao Nome owns her own private military company i.e. Chaos.

Spoiler for In terms of additional canon material:

Dr Mao Nome reverted to younger teenage state due to interaction with Her bio-fold receptors and Vars.

With Freyja's bio-fold receptors, there's a possibility Her lifespan could be extended with Vars inflection.
For bio-fold receptor holders, Vars inflection has benefits.

Does Macross 30 even count though? I mean most of those are just excuses for why you can play the characters in their younger forms isn't it...? Even if Fold waves can go beyond time and causation it still isn't really what's happening in the world if it's not in the show isn't it...?

As far as Mylene is concerned...I mean she was 15 (?) when M7 was going on and while I'd hate to think she'd ditch Basara and Hippie Space Rock it's not impossible that she chose a new profession as she grew older? I mean Mao was just some island girl before returning as Sheryl Nome's researcher grandmommy. If was want to talk about family money the Jeniuses probably blow Mylene out of the water by this point...? And Sheryl's wealth had nothing to do with being a Nome given she was orphaned and scrounging for food before Grace found her...? I'm pretty sure this was still canon in the movies where she hired SMS so...

[lfhoule]

Funny that when they Knights shown Wright's VF-22 to Hayate, et al they mentioned that the Kingdom restored / rebuilt it as a reminder of what was done to them. Now, presumably there's no munitions loaded, but why mention that fact to your prisoners, particularly when one of them has probably been checked out on / logged flight time in her grandparents' VF-22s. Or at least Millia's, because I would think that she would never let Gamlin touch another one of her rides ever again after what happened to her VF-1...

[CrowKenobi]

I would like to ask people to STOP posting info about the next episode in the current episode thread! Use the anime general discussion thread for that until the next episode thread is made.

Thank you.

[encia]

Originally Posted by ippus

Does Macross 30 even count though? I mean most of those are just excuses for why you can play the characters in their younger forms isn't it...? Even if Fold waves can go beyond time and causation it still isn't really what's happening in the world if it's not in the show isn't it...?

As far as Mylene is concerned...I mean she was 15 (?) when M7 was going on and while I'd hate to think she'd ditch Basara and Hippie Space Rock it's not impossible that she chose a new profession as she grew older? I mean Mao was just some island girl before returning as Sheryl Nome's researcher grandmommy. If was want to talk about family money the Jeniuses probably blow Mylene out of the water by this point...? And Sheryl's wealth had nothing to do with being a Nome given she was orphaned and scrounging for food before Grace found her...? I'm pretty sure this was still canon in the movies where she hired SMS so...

For Macross 30's canon status... Shōji Kawamori

The problem with Mylene as Lady M is the length of time between Space War 1, her birth then a career change to a researcher.

As stated in episode 18, Lady M was already a researcher since the end of Space War 1.

[charles883]

So most likely Lady M right now is Dr Mao. Even side material that Vajra save her and turn her young again when they experiment to see how fold bacteria affect on human.