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Old 2013-11-22, 00:25   Link #7981
bietchie11
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Look guys, all that "Phalanx block all spells including soul spells" is just your speculation.
There is no mention either it can block it or it can not. It just remains unknown. Leave it at that.

May be it block all systematic spells but not all spell, there are exceptions. Phalanx is not invincible. This is proven by "Meteor line" already.
Just because it is not spelled out as an exception, it doesn't mean it absolutely can not be an exception.

If Phalanx is that good, Jummonji would be the top among 10 master clan, not Yotsuba or Saegusa.
Especially Yotsuba. They don't have quatity, compared to other clans. If they don't have better quality (aka. cool trademark spell) compared to other clans, there is no way they are on the top.
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Old 2013-11-22, 00:29   Link #7982
hakazee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bietchie11 View Post
Look guys, all that "Phalanx block all spells including soul spells" is just your speculation.
There is no mention either it can block it or it can not. It just remains unknown. Leave it at that.

May be it block all systematic spells but not all spell, there are exceptions. Phalanx is not invincible. This is proven by "Meteor line" already.
Just because it is not spelled out as an exception, it doesn't mean it is absolutely not an exception.

If Phalanx is that good, Jummonji would be the top among 10 master clan, not Yotsuba or Saegusa.
Especially Yotsuba. They don't have quatity, compared to other clans. If they don't have better quality (aka. cool trademark spell) compared to other clans, there is no way they are on the top.
You know the reason why Saegusa rank 2 ?
What's their speciality ?

The reason why Juumonji rank 3 above Ichijou ?


I already explain Meteor Line x Phalanx.


Inside magical barrier, what maya wants is a MUST.


She's drawing Line in magical realm and the real world balance it ( anything the light pass through decompose to gas )




Please explain how mental mind magic work.

Remember you can use Counter magic to dispel Kuroba Mitsugu " poison bee "
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Old 2013-11-22, 00:54   Link #7983
Waxman
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Ok, again, Night has two steps, the light magic, wich isn't a magic barrier (a magic barrier its what Mikihiko does to, for example keep people away from an area) and the decomposition that took as target all places where the light beams were.
.
The Kuroba magic increases the feeling of pain, afect nerves and its in a different level compared with Cocytus and the already sterily discussed definition of what is the "soul" it afect.
.
Theres 2 ways of stopping magic, stopping the cast (for example with gram demolition/dispersion) or "shielding" the target (interference zone, data fortification).
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Old 2013-11-22, 01:08   Link #7984
bietchie11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hakazee View Post
You know the reason why Saegusa rank 2 ?
What's their speciality ?

The reason why Juumonji rank 3 above Ichijou ?


I already explain Meteor Line x Phalanx.


Inside magical barrier, what maya wants is a MUST.


She's drawing Line in magical realm and the real world balance it ( anything the light pass through decompose to gas )

Please explain how mental mind magic work.

Remember you can use Counter magic to dispel Kuroba Mitsugu " poison bee "
Saegusa is not rank 2. They are equal with Yotsuba and both of them compete for 1st place among the 10 master clans.
I don't remember the rank of other clans.

I don't think one person, if he/she is not a strategic magician(since Strategic M have political power as their characteristic), can carry the whole clan to the position they desires.

There are only two ways for a clan to get their power: either through quality or through quantity.
Saegusa is the example of "quantity".( lots of servants, public influence, lots of kids in each family: Mayumi have 4 siblings.)
Yotsuba is the example of "quality".(just look at Miyuki.)

I don't care how you theorize those magic.
Because it is not like i can test, in real life, to see whether the theory is right or wrong.
And i don't need to examine it to predict the future results.
The result is already there: Yotsuba is one of 2 best clans even when they have fewer people.
The end justifies the means.
I only examine the means if the result is unknown.

In the last post, what i mean to say is:
Just because the author hasn't said "Hey guys, i forgot. Cryotus also can penetrate Phalanx.", you should think Cryotus is definitely blocked by Phalanx.
There is a possibility that Cryotus will also be an exception. Since the novel doesn't mention whether it will be blocked or it will penetrate or "Meteor Line" is only counter to Phalanx or Maya went 1 vs thousands of Juumonji to carry her clan to the 1st position.
It is unknown, we will have to wait and see.
Don't spread your unproven theory as a fact.
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Last edited by bietchie11; 2013-11-22 at 03:11.
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Old 2013-11-22, 01:28   Link #7985
hakazee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waxman View Post
Ok, again, Night has two steps, the light magic, wich isn't a magic barrier (a magic barrier its what Mikihiko does to, for example keep people away from an area) and the decomposition that took as target all places where the light beams were.
.
The Kuroba magic increases the feeling of pain, afect nerves and its in a different level compared with Cocytus and the already sterily discussed definition of what is the "soul" it afect.
.
Theres 2 ways of stopping magic, stopping the cast (for example with gram demolition/dispersion) or "shielding" the target (interference zone, data fortification).
Quote:
The magical barrier through which light passes crafted by ‘Night’ via interfering with the structural information is easily shattered by interference which directly affects the structural information.
Fact : Maya create magical barrier.

Mind Magic is Outer Systematic Magic.
Genzou, Kuroba, Miya, and Miyuki use Mind magic - Outer Systematic magic.

Fact : you can counter Outer Systematic Magic with counter magic if you fast enough to do that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bietchie11 View Post
Saegusa is not rank 2. They are equal with Yotsuba and both of them compete for 1st place among the 10 master clans.
I don't remember the rank of other clans.
Volume 2
Quote:
Currently the two most influential families within the 10 Houses are the Yotsuba and the Saegusa.
Coming in at third are the Juumonji.

Defensive ????? Non lethal magic ????? Rank Third ????
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Old 2013-11-22, 01:47   Link #7986
Waxman
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I a little worried with the way the word "fact" is used when discussing fictional possibilities.
.
What that fragment of Vol.8 says to me is that Maya is defeated when trying to affect indirectly an structure body. The light that should continue to avance once the obstacle is decomposed stop because the obstacle wasn't decomposed.
.
Again, Kuroba magic afect the fisical body, Miyuki's magic (or Miya's for that matter) affect the "soul" there are differences when countering. If you stop the cast of the spell is a possibility but if you try to Shield from the magic or stop its effects i don't know how you will do that.
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Old 2013-11-22, 01:56   Link #7987
bietchie11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hakazee View Post
Volume 2
Quote:
Currently the two most influential families within the 10 Houses are the Yotsuba and the Saegusa.
Coming in at third are the Juumonji.
Defensive ????? Non lethal magic ????? Rank Third ????
See? The Juumonj is worse than Yotsuba. They are only 3rd.
That only gives more reason to believe Yotsuba's Mental magic can't be block by Phanlanx.( i repeat, that fact is unkown okay?)

Although i'm not sure where do you get that "defensive" and "non-lethal magic" from. I certainly didn't say that.
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Old 2013-11-22, 02:01   Link #7988
hakazee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waxman View Post
I a little worried with the way the word "fact" is used when discussing fictional possibilities.
.
What that fragment of Vol.8 says to me is that Maya is defeated when trying to affect indirectly an structure body. The light that should continue to avance once the obstacle is decomposed stop because the obstacle wasn't decomposed.
You don't understand Meteor Line.

Please explain to me what's Magical Barrier stated in volume 8 ?


She only drawing line between countless tiny balls.
Her magic doesn't care anything.
As long as the Line connectd between tiny balls.

You know what's the after effect of Meteor Line ?
Full of holes like CHEESE.

Please read it again if you don't understand.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Waxman View Post
Again, Kuroba magic afect the fisical body, Miyuki's magic (or Miya's for that matter) affect the "soul" there are differences when countering. If you stop the cast of the spell is a possibility but if you try to Shield from the magic or stop its effects i don't know how you will do that.
What I know.

Magicians rewrite or alter the Eidos of a target.

Maybe you think Cocytus doesn't alter eidos ?

Please read Outer Systematic Magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bietchie11 View Post
See? The Juumonj is worse than Yotsuba. They are only 3rd.
That only gives more reason to believe Yotsuba's Mental magic can't be block by Phanlanx.( i repeat, that fact is unkown okay?)

Although i'm not sure where do you get that "defensive" and "non-lethal magic" from. I certainly didn't say that.
9 school competition.

Remember Ichijou can't use his Rupture.


Just like you say. Quality or Quantity ?

Last edited by hakazee; 2013-11-22 at 02:14.
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Old 2013-11-22, 02:14   Link #7989
Waxman
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Oh, so we have come down to this, a little depressing.
.
I will abuse of your good will and rant a little. Meteor Line condence the light in a room into tiny ball, after that "shoot" a line of light between two said balls, and use the coordinates of this line to decompose any solid to gas, the decomposition don't aim at the entire information body or even a part of it, but in a similar way to the cardinal codes aplies magic throught the fisical world.
.
So Tatsuya, preventing the decomposition magic of drilling him so the line of light between the light balls stop the magic, the same way Leo's magic stopped a move magic from flying him away.
.
Miyuki magic don't affect the mind through psions but through pushion, thats why she could directly affect the parasites. The Kuroba magic its more like Evil Eye, another "mind magic".
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Old 2013-11-22, 02:34   Link #7990
bietchie11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hakazee View Post
9 school competition.

Remember Ichijou can't use his Rupture.


Just like you say. Quality or Quantity ?
I made my point clear: Phalanx is good (it helps them get the 3rd place) but not good enough to beat Yotsuba's spells in order to move up from 3rd place even though they have more man-power than Yotsuba.

You made me kind of lost right there. What's Ichijou's involvement in this?
What's your point?

I rate Katsuto the stoic very highly if you ask me. Above the childish crimson prince, of course. He is a very responsible and dependable guy.
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Old 2013-11-22, 02:50   Link #7991
hakazee
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Originally Posted by Waxman View Post
Oh, so we have come down to this, a little depressing.
.
I will abuse of your good will and rant a little. Meteor Line condence the light in a room into tiny ball, after that "shoot" a line of light between two said balls, and use the coordinates of this line to decompose any solid to gas, the decomposition don't aim at the entire information body or even a part of it, but in a similar way to the cardinal codes aplies magic throught the fisical world.
.
So Tatsuya, preventing the decomposition magic of drilling him so the line of light between the light balls stop the magic, the same way Leo's magic stopped a move magic from flying him away.
.
Please tell me which line you read.


Quote:
The attack appears like a shower of lasers, but the power of Meteor Line has no connection with the energy of the light. Even the amount of light is irrelevant.
The essence of the magic lies in forcing the redistribution of light, where the coordinates for light to be in are set as little balls and lines are then drawn between them.
Read thaat ?

There is no power in Maya's light.

Only drawing LINE.
The essence of the magic lies in forcing the redistribution of light


Quote:
Originally Posted by Waxman View Post
Miyuki magic don't affect the mind through psions but through pushion, thats why she could directly affect the parasites. The Kuroba magic its more like Evil Eye, another "mind magic".
You want to say there are many kinds of Mind magic ?

Poison bee is more like evil eye ?

Phalanx can block kuroba's and Genzou's but Miyuki's, right ?

Only Miyuki's magic ? Right ?
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Old 2013-11-22, 03:01   Link #7992
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One of the effect of the magic its that a line has to be formed, light has to go from poin A to point B, and for that, any obstacles that may prevent this line from forming will be decomposed but if theres an obstacle that isn't banished this cant be accomplished.
.
When have i mentioned Phalanx? I pointed out thet there are various magics that affect the mind, and each does so by targeting different things. The Kuroba's Poisonous Bees amplify the pain from a mere needle until this pain kill the victim, Evil Eye hypnotic effects are achieved through light manipulation, Watanabe Mari can achieve similar effect through scents and Miyuki's magic freeze the counciousness.
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Old 2013-11-22, 03:08   Link #7993
hakazee
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Originally Posted by Waxman View Post
One of the effect of the magic its that a line has to be formed, light has to go from poin A to point B, and for that, any obstacles that may prevent this line from forming will be decomposed but if theres an obstacle that isn't banished this cant be accomplished.
Where you read it ?
And how her light can't pass through any obstacles ?


Quote:
it cannot be defended against via blocking, reflecting, or refracting. Since the light doesn’t come from any particular direction, it cannot be shielded against by magic either. Even if one were to cover themselves with a spherical shield in all directions, it cannot alter the movement of photons and the phenomena ‘light has become a line’ will still be produced, resulting in a hole.
Just as it’s impossible to defend against by magic which shields against physical phenomena, it’s almost impossible to defend against Meteor Line with anti magic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waxman View Post
When have i mentioned Phalanx? I pointed out thet there are various magics that affect the mind, and each does so by targeting different things. The Kuroba's Poisonous Bees amplify the pain from a mere needle until this pain kill the victim, Evil Eye hypnotic effects are achieved through light manipulation, Watanabe Mari can achieve similar effect through scents and Miyuki's magic freeze the counciousness.

Oh sorry sorry.

Counter Magic can dispel poison bee.

Cocytus is impossible to dispel or counter, right ? Just like Miya's magic.
Tatsuya and Maya can't dispel Miya's magic.
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Old 2013-11-22, 03:23   Link #7994
Waxman
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Even your towering mastery of the oratory and your delicious mature irony fail to convince me of this.
.
The light by themselves don't evapore, lest say an wall in its way, so, in order for the line to form the point were the light touch the wall is decomposed, so with a new and shinning hole in the hypotetical wall the light can freely advance and form a line.
.
Please excuse me if my poor knowledge of the lenguage has made my previous attemps to say this inneficients but again, i am not talking about anuling the cast of the magic in itself, i was refering to what of this magics "aim" at.
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Old 2013-11-22, 03:31   Link #7995
hakazee
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Originally Posted by Waxman View Post
Even your towering mastery of the oratory and your delicious mature irony fail to convince me of this.
.
The light by themselves don't evapore, lest say an wall in its way, so, in order for the line to form the point were the light touch the wall is decomposed, so with a new and shinning hole in the hypotetical wall the light can freely advance and form a line.
.
Please excuse me if my poor knowledge of the lenguage has made my previous attemps to say this inneficients but again, i am not talking about anuling the cast of the magic in itself, i was refering to what of this magics "aim" at.
Oh my goodness.

Please please tell me which line you read.

So I can understand your assumption.

What's this ?

if there's an obstacle that isn't banished this cant be accomplished.

What obstacle you mean when tatsuya fight maya ?
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Old 2013-11-22, 03:45   Link #7996
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Currently i am not in a computer, i can't copy paste the parts i would like otherwise i would have already done, but i still don't understand your point either.
.
Lets see if i can be clear enough for you to understand me, Maya don't create laser beams, the light hence has no destructive power of its own, but as anyone can surely probe if you put an obstacle in the path of the light the light cant keep advancing, hence the shadows.
.
If those lines managed to pass, lets say through the body of an enemy its because the point were the light touch the body is decomposed, the rest of the body isn't so the light advance through this hole until it form a line.
.
Where its exactly the ilogical, or implausible parts in that?
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Old 2013-11-22, 03:52   Link #7997
hakazee
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Originally Posted by Waxman View Post
Currently i am not in a computer, i can't copy paste the parts i would like otherwise i would have already done, but i still don't understand your point either.
.
Lets see if i can be clear enough for you to understand me, Maya don't create laser beams, the light hence has no destructive power of its own, but as anyone can surely probe if you put an obstacle in the path of the light the light cant keep advancing, hence the shadows.
.
If those lines managed to pass, lets say through the body of an enemy its because the point were the light touch the body is decomposed, the rest of the body isn't so the light advance through this hole until it form a line.
.
Where its exactly the ilogical, or implausible parts in that?
Fyi, I'm posting using blackberry.

I don't understand what do you mean.

You mean, there's a way to Block maya's light ?
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Old 2013-11-22, 04:01   Link #7998
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I only know Phalanx can ward off physical phenomenon and Psion intrusion.

Nothing is said about Pushion.

and, as far as I remember, the only true outer-systematic mental interference magic(Evil Eyes is within oscillation system) recieved a clear definition of its casting process is "Azusayumi".

And it used PUSHION.


Note 1. Phalanx is Move-typed so it should work by redirecting or stopping the attacks(which are the abilities of this system)

Note 2. Spirit magics use pushion but they have physical bodies(the medium) which can be destroyed by physical attack from modern magic.
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Old 2013-11-22, 04:21   Link #7999
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@hakazee No, precicely the point of the magic is that the light can't be bloqued because anything in its way get decomposed. So to defeat Meteor Line you need to focus in the decomposition magic wich is the dangerous one after all. Tryin to prevent Maya from casting will be difficult given her speed (like the time Tats failed to stop Lina from Heavy Metal Burst with Gram Dispersion but failed because she was too fast) and trying to interfere with he light control will be equally fruitless to anyone (maybe with time Honaka will be capable).
.
Spirits are informations bodies made of pushions that can be attacked with psions right?
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Old 2013-11-22, 04:30   Link #8000
hakazee
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Originally Posted by Waxman View Post
@hakazee No, precicely the point of the magic is that the light can't be bloqued because anything in its way get decomposed. So to defeat Meteor Line you need to focus in the decomposition magic wich is the dangerous one after all. Tryin to prevent Maya from casting will be difficult given her speed (like the time Tats failed to stop Lina from Heavy Metal Burst with Gram Dispersion but failed because she was too fast) and trying to interfere with he light control will be equally fruitless to anyone (maybe with time Honaka will be capable).
So ?

How tatsuya destroy Meteor Stream ?

What do you mean with this ?


" The light that should continue to advance once the obstacle is decomposed stop because the obstacle wasn't decomposed. "


What obstacle wasn't decomposed ?
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