AnimeSuki Forums

Rising Dragon · 2012-02-04, 18:11

People would be bitching even more about the pacing if there was that.

Justin_Brett · 2012-02-04, 18:14

Quote:

What would having several chapters of Thoma knifing trees and scrounging food add to the story that the fashbacks didn't already tell us?

Emphasize to the reader that he's the kind of character who can survive for that long out in the middle of nowhere, at seven or eight years old?

Keroko · 2012-02-04, 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Emphasize to the reader that he's the kind of character who can survive for that long out in the middle of nowhere, at seven or eight years old?

Which the flashback already told us. Stretching that flashback out over an entire chapter would tell us nothing new, and just slow down the story.

Justin_Brett · 2012-02-04, 21:40

That's not emphasizing it.

Keroko · 2012-02-04, 21:43

Then what is? Mind you, the last thing we want is to tear down the pace and turn his background into filler. So how would we emphasize it?

Justin_Brett · 2012-02-04, 22:00

Showing something of it besides the tail end when he met Subaru? I don't know. There's a lot of stuff to him that could use more focus.

Keroko · 2012-02-04, 22:04

Not exactly specific, are we?

Nightengale · 2012-02-04, 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Showing something of it besides the tail end when he met Subaru? I don't know. There's a lot of stuff to him that could use more focus.

If he was actually say, not the real son of his parents, or was secretly planted in the mining village he was born in, or a plot tweest like

Spoiler:

Then there may be merit in bringing up more of Thoma's past to deliver hints, and build up the bridge that leads towards said developments.

Otherwise, it's just hog-washing for needless gore and overdramatisation. Force doesn't need to be Berserk.

rxrx · 2012-02-04, 22:20

If Force becomes Berserk, then it is going to be brutal. Since we already have a black knight, all we need is to put Touma through what Guts when through with Lily and the Special Force 6 as victim. Since we need a leader whom is also a friend turn enemy, maybe Hayate can substitue Griffs.

Seriously, no.

Nightengale · 2012-02-04, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by rxrx

If Force becomes Berserk, then it is going to be brutal. Since we already have a black knight, all we need is to put Touma through what Guts when through with Lily and the Special Force 6 as victim. Since we need a leader whom is also a friend turn enemy, maybe Hayate can substitue Griffs.

Seriously, no.

My point was that Thoma's backstory isn't one so thoroughly complex and intertwined that it needed to be a 'Golden Age : Version Force.'

Or if I were to use Berserk in a better comparative, I would say that Gut's childhood with his adopted parents is a good example. 99% of all Gut's past remembrance are on Griffith/Casca/Band of Hawks. His moments before that, while important, were but a small, almost irrelevant part of what makes Guts whole.

Likewise with Thoma.

What defines Thoma is the 'destruction of his life' when his village was destroyed and how 'he was saved' when Subaru and co. gave him a family and place he can call home. And both of these elements were already given a decent amount of development.

We don't need 2 chapters of 'Thoma watching his parents murdered, Thoma crawling out of the debris, stabs wild animals and eating them raw because rawr I must survive for revenge!!!!' because Thoma has not become a vengeful monster, nor does present Thoma carry so much trauma that he must be shown how he obtained those trauma through his suffering.

rxrx · 2012-02-04, 22:42

I agree with you though. Amazing how he turned out despite the death of his parents and survive the destruction of his village, survive in the wild for months with a knife and yet is still a good kid.

One good thing is that he still has some reservations in becoming part of the Nakajimas as he still feels the case of his village unresolved. Also, it is shown that he still has the vengence part in him, so we will see how it goes when the real killers appear. So far, it seems that the Hukes are just being played scape goat for the case. Not that they are good person, but at least many hints show that it is not them.

Justin_Brett · 2012-02-04, 23:04

We probably don't, but I wasn't talking about entire chapter's worth - that would be dumb too. Just more than not much. They haven't even shown much of his town or his parents, and they're supposed to be pretty important to him, right? Likewise, they only thing they show of him afterward is when Subaru pops up and takes him in.

Not exactly something that does its best to tug on your heartstrings.

Keroko · 2012-02-04, 23:27

His parents are about as important as Hayate's: What they looked like and who they were is not relevant since they're dead. It can't tug our heartstrings since we don't have a bond with them, so introducing them only to kill them within a few pages won't add much. The little bits needed so show that he cared for the town he lived in were shown in chapter 5.

Thoma's loss of his hometown isn't written to make us cry, it's written to make us understand his motivation. And for that, we only need a global picture of things.

Justin_Brett · 2012-02-05, 00:18

This is Nanoha, man, of course it was intended to do that. Almost every major character has something about them designed to get sympathy.

Keroko · 2012-02-05, 00:23

Yes, and for Tohma that something is "stuck with a virus that made him kill people." Not how that part was far more emphasized in the story when it started creeping up.

I will again compare to Hayate. Hayate's sympathy factor was that she was dieing from the book. She was a kid who had lived alone for an unknown number of years, but that wasn't the focus: She got our sympathy because she was dieing. We never even got to see her parents. Heck, they were never even mentioned.

Her living alone was her motivation. That's why she wanted the Wolkenritter around, because they were her family.

Character: Tohma - Hayate
Motivation: dead town - living alone
Sympathy factor: virus - encroaching death

Rising Dragon · 2012-02-05, 00:36

And let's not forget that if out of check, the virus can "kill" him as well, like the Tome was doing to Hayate. Living as a lump of flesh can't be called living.

Justin_Brett · 2012-02-05, 00:47

But now he has two things that largely cancel that out. Same can't be said for his first family and home getting wiped off the map in the blink of an eye.

00-Raiser · 2012-02-05, 01:35

It's not like "stuff to garner sympathy" is concretely definable anyways. Some people will look at being corrupted by magic penis worms and raped repeatedly by your step-brother and say "What a slut."

Either way it's not like Thoma has even been all "Bad stuff happened to me so you should feel for me!" Stuff happens and he deals with it.

Justin_Brett · 2012-02-05, 01:52

Well, whoever said that is objectively stupid, so it evens out pretty well.

And yeah, Nanoha characters typically aren't whiners.

rxrx · 2012-02-05, 01:58

I agree with you on that. All of them take in what life throws at them and strive to live for their best, so in a way it is not too bad. The thing is, there are still people whom bash Yunno for having a pole and bash the TSAB as well.

2012-02-04, 18:11	Link #5601
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	People would be bitching even more about the pacing if there was that. __________________

2012-02-05, 00:36	Link #5616
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	And let's not forget that if out of check, the virus can "kill" him as well, like the Tome was doing to Hayate. Living as a lump of flesh can't be called living. __________________

2012-02-05, 01:35	Link #5618
00-Raiser Burst Mode Author Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 37	It's not like "stuff to garner sympathy" is concretely definable anyways. Some people will look at being corrupted by magic penis worms and raped repeatedly by your step-brother and say "What a slut." Either way it's not like Thoma has even been all "Bad stuff happened to me so you should feel for me!" Stuff happens and he deals with it. __________________

2012-02-04, 21:40	Link #5604
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	That's not emphasizing it.

2012-02-04, 21:43	Link #5605
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Then what is? Mind you, the last thing we want is to tear down the pace and turn his background into filler. So how would we emphasize it?

2012-02-04, 22:00	Link #5606
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Showing something of it besides the tail end when he met Subaru? I don't know. There's a lot of stuff to him that could use more focus.

2012-02-04, 22:04	Link #5607
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Not exactly specific, are we?

2012-02-04, 22:20	Link #5609
rxrx Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	If Force becomes Berserk, then it is going to be brutal. Since we already have a black knight, all we need is to put Touma through what Guts when through with Lily and the Special Force 6 as victim. Since we need a leader whom is also a friend turn enemy, maybe Hayate can substitue Griffs. Seriously, no.

2012-02-04, 22:42	Link #5611
rxrx Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	I agree with you though. Amazing how he turned out despite the death of his parents and survive the destruction of his village, survive in the wild for months with a knife and yet is still a good kid. One good thing is that he still has some reservations in becoming part of the Nakajimas as he still feels the case of his village unresolved. Also, it is shown that he still has the vengence part in him, so we will see how it goes when the real killers appear. So far, it seems that the Hukes are just being played scape goat for the case. Not that they are good person, but at least many hints show that it is not them.

2012-02-04, 23:04	Link #5612
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	We probably don't, but I wasn't talking about entire chapter's worth - that would be dumb too. Just more than not much. They haven't even shown much of his town or his parents, and they're supposed to be pretty important to him, right? Likewise, they only thing they show of him afterward is when Subaru pops up and takes him in. Not exactly something that does its best to tug on your heartstrings.

2012-02-04, 23:27	Link #5613
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	His parents are about as important as Hayate's: What they looked like and who they were is not relevant since they're dead. It can't tug our heartstrings since we don't have a bond with them, so introducing them only to kill them within a few pages won't add much. The little bits needed so show that he cared for the town he lived in were shown in chapter 5. Thoma's loss of his hometown isn't written to make us cry, it's written to make us understand his motivation. And for that, we only need a global picture of things.

2012-02-05, 00:18	Link #5614
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	This is Nanoha, man, of course it was intended to do that. Almost every major character has something about them designed to get sympathy.

2012-02-05, 00:23	Link #5615
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Yes, and for Tohma that something is "stuck with a virus that made him kill people." Not how that part was far more emphasized in the story when it started creeping up. I will again compare to Hayate. Hayate's sympathy factor was that she was dieing from the book. She was a kid who had lived alone for an unknown number of years, but that wasn't the focus: She got our sympathy because she was dieing. We never even got to see her parents. Heck, they were never even mentioned. Her living alone was her motivation. That's why she wanted the Wolkenritter around, because they were her family. Character: Tohma - Hayate Motivation: dead town - living alone Sympathy factor: virus - encroaching death

2012-02-05, 00:47	Link #5617
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	But now he has two things that largely cancel that out. Same can't be said for his first family and home getting wiped off the map in the blink of an eye.

2012-02-05, 01:52	Link #5619
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Well, whoever said that is objectively stupid, so it evens out pretty well. And yeah, Nanoha characters typically aren't whiners.

2012-02-05, 01:58	Link #5620
rxrx Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	I agree with you on that. All of them take in what life throws at them and strive to live for their best, so in a way it is not too bad. The thing is, there are still people whom bash Yunno for having a pole and bash the TSAB as well.