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Vena · 2009-12-24, 18:52

There were a few things I wasn't sure about, who was the Yin-like person in the epilogue that is seemingly dead? Is that the "dark" Yin?

The ending for the main characters is left rather ambiguous, which is fine, though I would say that Hei killing Yin would come off as a contradiction if he spent all season refusing to kill her. Perhaps he killed "dark" Yin, and freed Yin? I don't think they merged, since we see the two of them, or at least Yin in his arms, at the end (unless its a joining in spirit), and I don't think she's dead since she's glowing. Suou is... in wonderland?

The rest of the cast was pretty much concluded. Mina may not appear but her story ended when she killed Genma, I would think she's probably alive since we don't see her corpse. Mizaki, Golgo, Madame, and so on, all got resolved in some sense of the word, or better put the same way they were resolved at the end of the first season.

And a big *thumbs up* to July. He discovered love, pity he forgot and had Suou taken away from him by the magician.

(Is July with November 11 in the epilogue?)

orion · 2009-12-24, 19:15

Normally I would watch the raw. But these comments are making me wait for the subs.

Dann of Thursday · 2009-12-24, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vena

And a big *thumbs up* to July. He discovered love, pity he forgot and had Suou taken away from him by the magician.

(Is July with November 11 in the epilogue?)

I did rather like how they expanded his role from what it was before and his final decisions were ones I quite liked as well.

Now that you mention it, the clothes of the one he is holding hands with appear to be the same as the ones November 11 wore. Which is kind of cool, though that makes me wonder if other dead people are here too.

Vena · 2009-12-24, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

I did rather like how they expanded his role from what it was before and his final decisions were ones I quite liked as well.

Now that you mention it, the clothes of the one he is holding hands with appear to be the same as the ones November 11 wore. Which is kind of cool, though that makes me wonder if other dead people are here too.

I agree, I really enjoyed what they did with July. He had a good finish, and we know he became very alive.

I always thought he saw November as his dad, and the girl (I forgot her month) as his mother. So I think it would make sense, but that just brings up a lot of questions about the dead/alive in Suou's world.

Season 3 (I'm calling it) is the story of Suou and July when they've grown up and in their more-hormonal years.

Myssa Rei · 2009-12-24, 19:41

This is one of the time where I wish my JPL proficiency level was higher. Level 4 doesn't cut it when it comes to complex terminologies.

I can't see why people are complaining, really, as almost the exact thing happened at the end of the first season. We had an almost EVA-esque 'congratulations!' scene then, we have an HS-AU world now. Literally.

Chidori<3 · 2009-12-24, 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vena

Season 3 (I'm calling it) is the story of Suou and July when they've grown up and in their more-hormonal years.

Nooooooooooooo!!!! pleas, really... I'll cut myself if that would happen... Where are the real main characters ?! Hei and Yin, Misaki ? And where is the real plot ???!!

Myssa Rei · 2009-12-24, 19:53

Actually, if anything, another season focusing on yet ANOTHER new character other than Hei might be expected now, with the first season cast just hanging on the sidelines. To ignore the possibility is simply foolish.

Kaoru Chujo · 2009-12-24, 20:04

A Chinese sub is out and makes things a bit clearer to me.

Spoiler for ep26:

I guess I understand why people are so disappointed, since this is not what they expected, nor is it exactly in the spirit of the original series. I like it better, for sure, but that's just my taste. I liked Suou and her journey, and I like having my mind blown. The "real plot" is bigger than it seemed in series one. We still want to know how the gates arose, and if there is any group of people behind them, but if we found out, the show might lose a lot of its mysterious energy.

Vena · 2009-12-24, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Spoiler:

Spoiler for spoilers:

Myssa Rei · 2009-12-24, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Oreille called the new Earth "proof that humanity existed."

Sounds too much like End of Evangelion. Except with no Unit-01 floating off into infinity.

Edge Meltdown · 2009-12-24, 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Sounds too much like End of Evangelion. Except with no Unit-01 floating off into infinity.

add rahxephon to the list too... i haven't watch the episode but the ending is all too similar from what i've been reading in this thread

Shinji103 · 2009-12-24, 22:15

I'm sorry to say that my feelings about this episode aren't much better than most others'.

And new worlds/new earths???? Where the heck did all this come from??? Since when did DtB have anything to do with world changing/making???

They ended up suffering a bit from a rushed ending, as I feared. We never found out what the heck was up with Yin being Izanami; hopefully they tell us what that was all about in the upcoming OVAs.

And JulyxSuou came really came quite a bit out of nowhere. After 24 episodes, DtB fans still can't accept HeixYin, so how does Bones expect people to get behind SuouxJuly?

They had the friendship thing going, but then they ended up jumping to a love relation, and Suou's feelings for hei ended up getting a bit of a backburner due to obvious time constraints.

And then we don't even find out what happens to Hei and Yin in the end; they end up getting an even worse backburner.

Hopefully they make an S3, because they certainly have plenty to work with; the Syndicate, the Gates, and Hei and Yin.

But this episode ended up not doing quite so well. DtB ended up dissapointing quite a bit after a good main run. (for me anyway) 4/10

Hobbit · 2009-12-24, 22:55

Waiting for subs, but reading the comments I'm a bit disappointed. Now I'm going to wait for the OVAs and hope for some light about what happened to Yin and Hei (both between S1 and S2 and after S2).

EadTaes · 2009-12-24, 23:11

I can't understand Japaneses and can only rely on info from others.

But to me is seems that the sky is now the normal sky, with 1 exception that BK201's star is the only one still shining. So if Hei is still alive, he is the last contractor, but Mao is stuck in his squirrel body.

Manji Midou · 2009-12-24, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinji103

. After 24 episodes, DtB fans still can't accept HeixYin

l can accept such a wonderful pairing, hopefully the ova will give us a yinxhei on a date moments

Kunagisa · 2009-12-24, 23:29

Here's what's my take on the ending after first watch (highly subject to change). Speculations to why Yin still exists.

Spoiler for 12:

Characters

Shion created the new Earth for Suou. It was basically to revive her at the cost of his life (which is his "trade" with Izanami); July is in this new world as well, but both lost their memories. This was the driving force of the entire series. The information lady told us that this is Shion's wish. Contractors are supposed to have no feelings for their family, but as shown lately, this law is not true all the time. Shion is also special for being Izanagi.

Izanagi and Izanami together together created the world. This copied world is the parallel of that. August7(Magician) mentioned that DOLLS can evolve. Yin is probably the first DOLL to evolve to a state of likely human, her existence as Izanami might be the cause of her evolution (we probably will find out more about this in the OVA). Shion IS THE ONLY ONE so far in the series that is BORN a contractor, so his existence as Izanagi can probably be explained this way as well.

Not July x Suou end. Heck they don't even remember each other.

Hei is not dead, his star is still alive. Misaki believes him to be alive as well. I do believe he is inside the gate and lost his physical body (the Gate granted his wish to get power back (as shown by star shining, this makes more sense than Yin giving back his power), but he lost something important, which I'm guessing his physical body). Or his wish was to just make sure Yin still exists, and lost his body as a result (this is probably just more of my wish on what happened though).

Yin is not erased. When a doll "dies", his conscious get sucked into the gate, and exists within it. Her individuality in the end was still preserved, if it disappeared then I would say she's dead.

Spoiler for Season 1:

Amber is really, really dead because her existence got wiped.

I rather called her asleep and fragmented instead of dead. Also, if Hei killed Yin to stop the fusion, then the new entity would not be born, and the new world will not be created. There is absolutely no point for Hei to kill Yin, because the Boss guy said they were too late.

Big boss guy mentioned when they found Yin, they wanted to kill her immediately, but they found that her consciousness as Izanami is severed, so they sealed her instead. They wanted Yin's consciousness to go in sleep again, but that didn't happen. This implies to me that if they can't kill Izanami while Yin is conscious. Yin's consciousness did not go to sleep again after she reawakened, and in the end, Hei was too late to stop Yin's conscious from going to the Gate (body shown was just a shell), and it was too late for the big boss to stop the fusion from happening. This was the most confusing part for me, so if someone want to clear any misunderstandings that would be great.

Other Tibbits

No wonder that informant lady had so much information. Using the ME network and those Shion to retain the whole world's memory and using them to recreate a new world is very farfetched but acceptable explanation.

Hei was not together with Suou in the end, and she knows because she said you lied before she lost conscious.

Izanami and Izanagi fused to form that "new" being, which basically can suck the soul of everyone (John Smith was one of them); besides physical appearances, I believe this new being to be completely different from Yin or Shion. I think it is the disaster that was predicted by Amber in the Mitaka documents, because it is a walking, living death entity. If going by mythology, this would be カグツチ, who killed Izanami/Yin when giving birth, but here Izanagi/Shion died instead; カグツチ also marks the end of creation and marks beginning of death, which fits well with what is shown.

There is Yin, and there is Izanami. Yin still has a conscious outside of Izanami because Yin asked him to stopped "me"; maybe we will find how out this is true when we see the OVAs.

I was terribly disappointed that the syndicate got wiped out, was hoping it to be a lot more resourceful and consolidated. The random Japan takeover in the end is also kinda lame.

Watching that sword lady kissing Hei was fun, so glad she also killed that traitor. The traitors character was done pretty well; his fight with Suou in previous episode highly convinced me that he literally was a disgusting hentai.

The meteor fragment shattering was highly emotional. Poor Suou, finding out she's a copy, called a monster from her mother, her happiness is fake, and in the end lost all her new memories. This is the saddest part of the episode for me.

All in all, I loved this episode. The things I want to see resolved got resolved (even though there are a ton of unanswered questions but I'm fine with that regarding the world itself). I personally believe it's a Hei x Yin end <__<.

Nanaya · 2009-12-25, 00:26

This episode was so.... sad. It's certainly not the end that I wanted, but it certainly isn't a trainwreck that other people are making it out to be, though.

Spoiler:

As for Hei...

Spoiler:

The created Earth thing isn't much of a stretch, since Shion needed machines, amplified Gate power, amplified meteor power, his contractor power, and dying to make it. Remember, Amber was able to move time itself without needing those other things at all.

Then we get

Spoiler:

Okamura Tensai did say that he wanted to focus on other characters other than Hei in coming sequels after season 1, but... didn't he already do it this season with Suou?

But seriously, a bittersweet ending before Christmas, Bones? REALLY?

Vena · 2009-12-25, 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanaya

This episode was so.... sad. It's certainly not the end that I wanted, but it certainly isn't a trainwreck that other people are making it out to be, though.

Spoiler:

Spoiler for not quite:

Quote:

Then we get

Spoiler:

After rewatching the raw:

Spoiler for that kid:

Myssa Rei · 2009-12-25, 01:24

Spoiler for Stuff:

USCPharmacist · 2009-12-25, 03:37

BEST ENDING EVAR!!!

Now all I need is wait for "Darker than Black Kai Chiru" to find out what the fuck was going on....

View Poll Results: Darker Than Black - Episode 12 Rating
Perfect 10	29	14.22%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	42	20.59%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	37	18.14%
7 out of 10 : Good	38	18.63%
6 out of 10 : Average	11	5.39%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	11	5.39%
4 out of 10 : Poor	4	1.96%
3 out of 10 : Bad	8	3.92%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	24	11.76%
Voters: 204. You may not vote on this poll

2009-12-24, 19:15	Link #42
orion Waiting for more taiyuki! Join Date: Jan 2004	Normally I would watch the raw. But these comments are making me wait for the subs. __________________

2009-12-24, 19:41	Link #45
Myssa Rei Moderate Haruhiist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Metro Manila, Philippines Age: 42	This is one of the time where I wish my JPL proficiency level was higher. Level 4 doesn't cut it when it comes to complex terminologies. I can't see why people are complaining, really, as *almost the exact thing* happened at the end of the first season. We had an almost EVA-esque 'congratulations!' scene then, we have an HS-AU world now. Literally. __________________

2009-12-24, 19:53	Link #47
Myssa Rei Moderate Haruhiist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Metro Manila, Philippines Age: 42	Actually, if anything, another season focusing on yet ANOTHER new character other than Hei might be expected now, with the first season cast just hanging on the sidelines. To ignore the possibility is simply foolish. __________________

2009-12-24, 20:04	Link #48
Kaoru Chujo Yuuki Aoi Join Date: Jul 2004	A Chinese sub is out and makes things a bit clearer to me. Spoiler for ep26: The new Earth recedes from the normal Earth. A coalition of outside countries takes over Tokyo. The Organization is gone, but Misaki, Golgo, and Oreille all escape to fight again -- and they and their collaborators are ironically christened "the Organization." One comment on 2channel suggested that the flying cars give the feeling that this may not be the real Earth, either. Suou feels a strange confidence that there is someone she has forgotten but will definitely meet again. She looks through her telescope at a star. Hei did promise to always be with her, and she feels as if there is someone watching over her. Could just be July, but I think not. Still don't know if Hei killed Yin or not, but if he did, it was within the gate, where almost anything can be true. I think of that Yin-spirit as an emanation of the Yin-like Gate spirit floating above the flowers. So killing that form is fairly meaningless. Oreille called the new Earth "proof that humanity existed." The old Earth is under the power of the Gates. The Pavlichenko super-computer was made up of human-like creatures made by Shion that were not even at the level of dolls. How it could contain all the memories of everyone in the world is a bit questionable. But like I quoted Arthur C. Clarke before, advanced science can look like magic. I don't see the new Earth as less real than the old one, just created in a different way. If it is made with lots of meteor fragments in it, there is no reason people's memories there can't last. When Misaki was watching and the bright light arose, it was a lot like the meteor crash in ep1. The show gave us a feeling of doubt over "what is real?" I guess I understand why people are so disappointed, since this is not what they expected, nor is it exactly in the spirit of the original series. I like it better, for sure, but that's just my taste. I liked Suou and her journey, and I like having my mind blown. The "real plot" is bigger than it seemed in series one. We still want to know how the gates arose, and if there is any group of people behind them, but if we found out, the show might lose a lot of its mysterious energy. __________________ YUUKI Aoi 悠木碧. b92.03.27 (age 29). 2008 Kurenai (Murasaki). 2009 Yumeiro Pâtissière (Ichigo), Kiruminzuu (Riko), Yutori-chan (Yutori-chan). 2010 Vampire Bund (Mina Tepeş), Shiki (Sunako), Samurai Girls (Juubee), Pokémon: Black and White (Iris). 2011 Madoka Magica (Madoka), Gosick (Victorique), A-Channel (Tooru). 2012 Symphogear (Hibiki). 2014 Pilot's Love Song (Claire/Nina), Nanatsu no Taizai (Diane). 2015 Owari no Seraph (Krul Tepes), Rokka no Yuusha (Fremy). 2016 Boku no Hero Academia (Tsuyu, Froppy). 2017 Kino no Tabi (Kino). 2021 Kumo desu ga (watashi), Kaizoku Oujo (Karin), Heike Monogatari (Biwa), etc., etc. Total of 513 roles in anime and games.

2009-12-24, 18:52	Link #41
Vena Carpe Diem Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: \|\|At the edge of finality.\|\| Age: 34	There were a few things I wasn't sure about, who was the Yin-like person in the epilogue that is seemingly dead? Is that the "dark" Yin? The ending for the main characters is left rather ambiguous, which is fine, though I would say that Hei killing Yin would come off as a contradiction if he spent all season refusing to kill her. Perhaps he killed "dark" Yin, and freed Yin? I don't think they merged, since we see the two of them, or at least Yin in his arms, at the end (unless its a joining in spirit), and I don't think she's dead since she's glowing. Suou is... in wonderland? The rest of the cast was pretty much concluded. Mina may not appear but her story ended when she killed Genma, I would think she's probably alive since we don't see her corpse. Mizaki, Golgo, Madame, and so on, all got resolved in some sense of the word, or better put the same way they were resolved at the end of the first season. And a big thumbs up to July. He discovered love, pity he forgot and had Suou taken away from him by the magician. (Is July with November 11 in the epilogue?)

2009-12-24, 22:15	Link #52
Shinji103 Crazy Devout Fanboy Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: 1st Ra Cailum-class battleship Ra Cailum, port-side officer's bunks	I'm sorry to say that my feelings about this episode aren't much better than most others'. And new worlds/new earths???? Where the heck did all this come from??? Since when did DtB have anything to do with world changing/making??? They ended up suffering a bit from a rushed ending, as I feared. We never found out what the heck was up with Yin being Izanami; hopefully they tell us what that was all about in the upcoming OVAs. And JulyxSuou came really came quite a bit out of nowhere. After 24 episodes, DtB fans still can't accept HeixYin, so how does Bones expect people to get behind SuouxJuly? They had the friendship thing going, but then they ended up jumping to a love relation, and Suou's feelings for hei ended up getting a bit of a backburner due to obvious time constraints. And then we don't even find out what happens to Hei and Yin in the end; they end up getting an even worse backburner. Hopefully they make an S3, because they certainly have plenty to work with; the Syndicate, the Gates, and Hei and Yin. But this episode ended up not doing quite so well. DtB ended up dissapointing quite a bit after a good main run. (for me anyway) 4/10 __________________

2009-12-24, 22:55	Link #53
Hobbit . . . Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Brazil Age: 35	Waiting for subs, but reading the comments I'm a bit disappointed. Now I'm going to wait for the OVAs and hope for some light about what happened to Yin and Hei (both between S1 and S2 and after S2).

2009-12-24, 23:11	Link #54
EadTaes The Northern Guy Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 40	I can't understand Japaneses and can only rely on info from others. But to me is seems that the sky is now the normal sky, with 1 exception that BK201's star is the only one still shining. So if Hei is still alive, he is the last contractor, but Mao is stuck in his squirrel body. __________________

2009-12-24, 23:29	Link #56
Kunagisa Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009	Here's what's my take on the ending after first watch (highly subject to change). Speculations to why Yin still exists. Spoiler for 12: Characters Shion created the new Earth for Suou. It was basically to revive her at the cost of his life (which is his "trade" with Izanami); July is in this new world as well, but both lost their memories. This was the driving force of the entire series. The information lady told us that this is Shion's wish. Contractors are supposed to have no feelings for their family, but as shown lately, this law is not true all the time. Shion is also special for being Izanagi. Izanagi and Izanami together together created the world. This copied world is the parallel of that. August7(Magician) mentioned that DOLLS can evolve. Yin is probably the first DOLL to evolve to a state of likely human, her existence as Izanami might be the cause of her evolution (we probably will find out more about this in the OVA). Shion IS THE ONLY ONE so far in the series that is BORN a contractor, so his existence as Izanagi can probably be explained this way as well. Not July x Suou end. Heck they don't even remember each other. Hei is not dead, his star is still alive. Misaki believes him to be alive as well. I do believe he is inside the gate and lost his physical body (the Gate granted his wish to get power back (as shown by star shining, this makes more sense than Yin giving back his power), but he lost something important, which I'm guessing his physical body). Or his wish was to just make sure Yin still exists, and lost his body as a result (this is probably just more of my wish on what happened though). Yin is not erased. When a doll "dies", his conscious get sucked into the gate, and exists within it. Her individuality in the end was still preserved, if it disappeared then I would say she's dead. Spoiler for Season 1: Amber is really, really dead because her existence got wiped. I rather called her asleep and fragmented instead of dead. Also, if Hei killed Yin to stop the fusion, then the new entity would not be born, and the new world will not be created. There is absolutely no point for Hei to kill Yin, because the Boss guy said they were too late. Big boss guy mentioned when they found Yin, they wanted to kill her immediately, but they found that her consciousness as Izanami is severed, so they sealed her instead. They wanted Yin's consciousness to go in sleep again, but that didn't happen. This implies to me that if they can't kill Izanami while Yin is conscious. Yin's consciousness did not go to sleep again after she reawakened, and in the end, Hei was too late to stop Yin's conscious from going to the Gate (body shown was just a shell), and it was too late for the big boss to stop the fusion from happening. This was the most confusing part for me, so if someone want to clear any misunderstandings that would be great. Other Tibbits No wonder that informant lady had so much information. Using the ME network and those Shion to retain the whole world's memory and using them to recreate a new world is very farfetched but acceptable explanation. Hei was not together with Suou in the end, and she knows because she said you lied before she lost conscious. Izanami and Izanagi fused to form that "new" being, which basically can suck the soul of everyone (John Smith was one of them); besides physical appearances, I believe this new being to be completely different from Yin or Shion. I think it is the disaster that was predicted by Amber in the Mitaka documents, because it is a walking, living death entity. If going by mythology, this would be カグツチ, who killed Izanami/Yin when giving birth, but here Izanagi/Shion died instead; カグツチ also marks the end of creation and marks beginning of death, which fits well with what is shown. There is Yin, and there is Izanami. Yin still has a conscious outside of Izanami because Yin asked him to stopped "me"; maybe we will find how out this is true when we see the OVAs. I was terribly disappointed that the syndicate got wiped out, was hoping it to be a lot more resourceful and consolidated. The random Japan takeover in the end is also kinda lame. Watching that sword lady kissing Hei was fun, so glad she also killed that traitor. The traitors character was done pretty well; his fight with Suou in previous episode highly convinced me that he literally was a disgusting hentai. The meteor fragment shattering was highly emotional. Poor Suou, finding out she's a copy, called a monster from her mother, her happiness is fake, and in the end lost all her new memories. This is the saddest part of the episode for me. All in all, I loved this episode. The things I want to see resolved got resolved (even though there are a ton of unanswered questions but I'm fine with that regarding the world itself). I personally believe it's a Hei x Yin end <__<. Last edited by Kunagisa; 2009-12-26 at 04:05. Reason: Added extra thoughts

2009-12-25, 00:26	Link #57
Nanaya ハイパー武器英雄 Join Date: Jan 2007	This episode was so.... sad. It's certainly not the end that I wanted, but it certainly isn't a trainwreck that other people are making it out to be, though. Spoiler: July x Suou end? No, not in the least. Suou didn't even recognize him (probably thought a random foreigner kid waved at her) and this is followed by Suou still remembering her feelings for Hei and wanting to travel with him. Except that she doesn't really remember the person she knows pretty well, only that she believes she'll meet him again. As for Hei... Spoiler: Everyone he loves back, dammit... it's raining in front of my computer monitor. The created Earth thing isn't much of a stretch, since Shion needed machines, amplified Gate power, amplified meteor power, his contractor power, and dying to make it. Remember, Amber was able to move time itself without needing those other things at all. Then we get Spoiler: the birth of the next killing machine final boss son of Yin? Hei's troubles never seem to disappear. Okamura Tensai did say that he wanted to focus on other characters other than Hei in coming sequels after season 1, but... didn't he already do it this season with Suou? But seriously, a bittersweet ending before Christmas, Bones? REALLY? __________________

2009-12-25, 01:24	Link #59
Myssa Rei Moderate Haruhiist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Metro Manila, Philippines Age: 42	Spoiler for Stuff: It's pretty vague though whether Hei fried Yin or not with the return of his powers. As mentioned, too many questions posed to be sure. __________________

2009-12-25, 03:37	Link #60
USCPharmacist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004	BEST ENDING EVAR!!! Now all I need is wait for "Darker than Black Kai Chiru" to find out what the fuck was going on....