2012-04-27, 15:07 | Link #28621 | |
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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To follow your ideas about Yasu and homosexuality, does this mean that some kind of emotional trauma turned Yasu unhappily gay?? |
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2012-04-27, 15:46 | Link #28622 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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One hardly need to "turn" gay to be uncomfortable and confused with one's own sexuality, especially if it hasn't really been adequately explained to you. It's difficult to really know how much Yasu understood about him/herself, honestly, to even guess about that sort of thing.
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2012-04-27, 16:54 | Link #28623 | |
Detective, Witch, Pirate.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ruins of the Golden Land
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I had some serious doubts about this theory when I first came up with it, but that red scene where it explains the term 'furniture' convinced me.
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2012-04-27, 22:45 | Link #28624 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
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The reason I disagree with Yasu's 'genderlessness' being related to the fall is because of Lion. Even eir gender is unknown in a kakera when Natsuhi didn't push the baby off the cliff. Yasu's issues with gender and sexuality has nothing to do with the fall.
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2012-04-27, 23:39 | Link #28625 | |
Endless Sorceror
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wisconsin
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2012-04-28, 01:46 | Link #28626 |
The True Culprit
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Lion possesses multiple traits that an actual 'baby never thrown off cliff' wouldn't possess, therefore Lion's lack of a defined gender is simply because Yasu herself does not know which she'd be happier as; Lion as we see him is not Lion as he would actually exist but Lion as Yasu idealizes his possibility.
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Last edited by AuraTwilight; 2012-04-28 at 14:10. |
2012-04-28, 08:16 | Link #28628 |
Detective, Witch, Pirate.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ruins of the Golden Land
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I don't know about that...I think Lion's 'neutralness' as far as his/her gender is concerned is just so that readers wouldn't be able to figure out Yasu's actual gender. I mean, it'd be kinda silly to let the cat out of the bag like that after such a huge setup.
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2012-04-28, 10:30 | Link #28630 |
Detective, Witch, Pirate.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ruins of the Golden Land
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That was actually never confirmed, but I agree, being female would make more sense. After all, Genji was afraid Kinzo might make the same mistake again, and I don't think he would imagine Kinzo raping his son. Then again, there's no guarantee whatsoever.
Even in the scene where Yasu is put in Beatrice's dress, it says something like: 'I was sure this dress would cause a lot of jokes'. So...cat box?
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2012-04-28, 12:33 | Link #28631 | ||||||
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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At least in EP4, I do not think that Maria could really love her mother anymore. At least in the fantasy scene where Rosa made brutal comments to Maria while being tortured. If you look at it from the perspective that the whole scene is just Maria's fantasy, that basically that she truly believes every negative she suspected about Rosa. Like mentioned in EP 3 that magic for happiness can only exist if everyone believes in it. If Maria cannot believe in her mother anymore, then there is no magic. IMO I think it is both, damage done to brain and to lower half of the body. First that the baby landed on the head then hit something sharp on the lower side when it was falling down. Probably that it landed in pretty fortunate or unfortunate angle. However I always thought that baby must have been somewhat of a mess considering that people thought it died. Quote:
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[QUOTE=Captain Bluebeard;4133844]That was actually never confirmed, but I agree, being female would make more sense. After all, Genji was afraid Kinzo might make the same mistake again, and I don't think he would imagine Kinzo raping his son. Then again, there's no guarantee whatsoever. /QUOTE] Your forget the number one truth in Umineko, You should not put anything past Kinzo Quote:
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2012-04-28, 16:55 | Link #28632 | |||||
Detective, Witch, Pirate.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ruins of the Golden Land
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After all, Maria could be happy because she believed Rosa was in a business trip. If she stopped believing, then the magic holding that truth to place crumbles. Quote:
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Anyway, the point is, that sentence is put there so as to hint towards both directions simultaneously. I'd really like to know what Ryukishi views his little culprit as, though we're never going to learn. From his interviews, I'd say girl. Though we can never be sure. Never put anything past Kinzo's creator either.
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2012-04-29, 06:39 | Link #28633 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Eh, can't be arsed to quote each specific post.
[QUOTE=AuraTwilight;4133248]Lion possesses multiple traits that an actual 'baby never thrown off cliff' wouldn't possess, Could you clarify? I 'unno - it just seems, after reading all this cis/trans/non-binary stuff, it seems, like, potentially problematic the way some folks seem intent to put down Yasu's issues to brain damage and smashed-junk, 'cause it's not really necessary to arrive at the character we've been presented with, and in fact kinda complicates things. Especially because we tend to conflate anatomy and gender (kinda understandably), even though that correlation doesn't work for everyone, INCLUDING people with very typical anatomy. Yasu could've been born an XX girl with a totally functional uterus and ovaries and still have drama, and I can see why that might be compounded by sheer virtue of hitting puberty in 1980. For example, if Yasu/Lion has a naturally rather fluid gender identity, it would give Kanon's existence way more ... I 'unno, legitimacy than Requiem seemed to give him. If we assume Yasu was born with male bits, then ... well, that just puts us where we are. If we assume she was born with female bits, then that just puts this injury into an extremely weird, ambiguous place. Oh, I dunno, I'm still trying to sort it out. Reconstruction of infant genitalia has been a thing, since, like, the 60's I think, so I'm trying to imagine what Nanjo could have said. Well, there's also the coincidence of Kanon existing AFTER things were explained to her, so ... I ... just don't know at the moment. |
2012-04-29, 06:49 | Link #28634 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
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I have a hard time accepting that Yasu doesn't have any kind of genital injury, with the stuff about 'a body that can't love, and how obviously awkward she acts when George talks about them building a family together and having children.
I would tend to agree with Aura that Lion is portrayed as androgynous because Yasu doesn't really know which gender to imagine him/her as, and neither does Bern, the GM. |
2012-04-29, 14:57 | Link #28635 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: United Kingdom.
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I think that umineko actually draws some (very slight) parallels with the visual novel known as CROSS CHANNEL.
Notably, Spoiler for for CROSS CHANNEL up to ending:
Wierdly enough, the author, Romeo Tanaka (RT) worked on Rewrite with Ryukishi. So yeah, Kinzo could have ended up raping an effeminate looking boy, which is what Kanon looks like.
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2012-04-29, 22:09 | Link #28637 | ||||
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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However Maria likely thought Sakutaro was done by her mother and told so to Beato. I don't know if back there Beato has any chance to discover that Sakutaro wasn't handmade by Rosa (who, considering her work, likely could have made a toy like Sakutaro without too many problems. Quote:
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There's also the fact that Will suggested Shannon was said to be 3 years younger than they were because this would disguise her from being recognized. If they changed her sex I think this would disguise enough... |
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2012-04-30, 07:01 | Link #28638 | ||
Detective, Witch, Pirate.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ruins of the Golden Land
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However, this is somewhat interesting. I mean, it appears Yasu is unsure about her own gender, but what do others, like Natsuhi and Krauss or the other servants perceive her as, and how accurate can their view of it be? Shannon, for instance is viewed as female, so probably the same thing goes for Yasu too.
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2012-04-30, 07:20 | Link #28639 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
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After all, how would you react if a stranger asked your gender, a question you have to field an annoying amount of the time? I could see giving a similar sort of brush off answer. |
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2012-04-30, 07:23 | Link #28640 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
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Also regarding an earlier conversation about Ange, I was under the impression that Ange Beatrice was the version of her Tohya invited to play the game, while sailing boat Ange was more his interpretation of more real events that occurred to her. Known or otherwise.
Furthermore, was it Aurora who quoted "she wanted Battler to solve this, so she made it solvable" as proof game piece Battler should have enough info to solve the riddles? Because this was said in the Meta World to Meta Battler.... |
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