Kantai Collection ~Kancolle~ (Browser Game)

[Lantern]

Originally Posted by ganbaru

There's no question than her equipment is worth the leveling got good armor, Hp, torpedo and luck stats but her firepower, AA and evasion is clower of those light heavy cruiser.
Still, she's still better I almost every point that a Mogami-class cruiser and there is the possibility of a second remodel so it would be crazy not to keep her.

The thing about CAs is that you can't separate their firepower and torpedo, because night battle power is where they shine. Prinz Eugen's 75 firepower + 84 torpedo + 20 from guns is among top tier and only behind Myoukou/Haguro K2, making her one of the selected few other than CLTs who can reliably hit through bosses with over 150 armor. And honestly, even if her and the likes of Furutaka-class's firepower are one of the lowest among CAs they still have CA tier firepower (above 90) and are perfectly capable of punching a hole on enemy BBs at ease, and that's all they need to do. It's not like Haguro K2, who has 9 extra firepower, can hit through Wo Kai's 120 armor anyway,

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

Is there a penalty or what? I have to admit, I used Ooi for E3 and as I said double line all the time save for the boss node. And the same for E4 when I added in Kitakami.

Torpedo modifier
from Line Ahead: 1.0
from Double Line: 0.8

You're gimping your torpedo squadron / CLT's performance by using double line.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by Lantern

Torpedo modifier
from Line Ahead: 1.0
from Double Line: 0.8

You're gimping your torpedo squadron / CLT's performance by using double line.

Ah okay, then it didn't matter to me at all, since I was more worried about daylight shelling damage prior to the boss node than torpedo damage. My CLT(s) took out anything they shot at with ease with their opening salvo, so I never had the impression that they were penalised.

[Lantern]

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

Ah okay, then it didn't matter to me at all, since I was more worried about daylight shelling damage prior to the boss node than torpedo damage. My CLT(s) took out anything they shot at with ease with their opening salvo, so I never had the impression that they were penalised.

They could have been taking out BBs and Wos (or the awful tanky Ne-class) with line ahead.

Besides, shelling also get the same penalty in exchange for accuracy which is still horrible because of combined fleet.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by Lantern

They could have been taking out BBs and Wos with line ahead.

Besides, shelling also get the same penalty in exchange for accuracy which is still horrible because of combined fleet.

Truth to be told, I didn't worry about those at all. The ones who were causing me the most headaches were the escort ships with their torpedo salvo. 90% of the time I had an escort fleet ship significantly damaged was due to torpedos. Well, just say I went with double line prior to the boss node and it didn't hurt.

[Lantern]

That's my point, the only reason the enemy torpedo squadron are even alive to fire torpedoes at you is because you gimped your shelling firepower and CLT torpedoes. CA using double line will have trouble killing a Tsu-class while line ahead will effectively murder it. Basically, nothing but the Himes should be alive by the end of turn especially if you're using quick response task force.

Double line is only good when you're up against a massive horde of enemy planes and have a full fleet of overflowing firepower like the Yamato-class to compensate the loss. p.s. It is also been shown that double line does nothing for evasion or survivability.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by Lantern

That's my point, the only reason the enemy torpedo squadron are even alive to fire torpedoes at you is because you gimped your shelling firepower and CLT torpedoes. CA using double line will have trouble killing a Tsu-class while line ahead will effectively murder it. Basically, nothing but the Himes should be alive by the end of turn especially if you're using quick response task force.

Double line is only good when you're up against a massive horde of enemy planes and have a full fleet of overflowing firepower like the Yamato-class to compensate the loss. p.s. It is also been shown that double line does nothing for evasion or survivability.

Seems like the damage I took from the pre-boss nodes were by far not enough to really highlight that.
The only trouble I had during E3 and E4 pre-boss was with the carrier hime in E4.

[Lantern]

Eh, carrier hime. Nothing you can do about her.
Personally I find the DDs/CL/CA pretty good at surviving CV Hime and taking out everything but the Hime with closing torpedoes provided they are leveled enough, which is why I went with carrier fleet for E4.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by Lantern

Eh, carrier hime. Nothing you can do about her.
Personally I find the DDs/CL/CA pretty good at surviving CV Hime and taking out everything but the Hime with closing torpedoes provided they are leveled enough, which is why I went with carrier fleet for E4.

Also went with the carrier fleet. No one had real problems surviving the CV hime hits but my two carriers. Which is why in the end I put one of them into the flagship slot. Better to take shots at Kongo/Haruna than Hiryu.

[Saint X]

my Carrier Fleet for E-4 was Basically Haruna/Kongou/Kaga/Akagi/Suzuya/Kumano + Yukikaze/Shigure/Ooyodo/KTKM/Ooi/Kiso.

Haruna did a very good job of keeping pressure on CVH, on two occasions dealing a few points shy of a oneshot.

[DragonBladeX]

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

Is there a composition that guarantees a trip to the sub node? During my clearing of E4 I got shifted to the sub node and the node above randomnly.

http://www.himeuta.net/f6-kancolle-g...tml#post349753

Check the link for more details.

I'm using 4DD/1CA/1BBV + CL/2DD/CLT/1CA/1CAV

[blitz1/2]

For battleship equipment for E-3, do you recommend using AP rounds over 15.5s? Or keep the same?

[Lantern]

AP shells. You are looking a 1.5x damage modifier vs 1.1x? modifier for artillery spotting cut-in, and that's without counting the extra crit bonus against high armored enemies from the shell itself. Either that or don't bring them at all and stick to double attack with a radar. As far as my experience go, any artillery spotting cut-in that isn't the 2 main gun + AP shell combo stinks. BB should always stick to 2 guns + radar/AP shell(or Samshiki for land bosses) combo and never a third gun.

[cloud04]

btw i saw amatsukaze drops at e2 and e3, which would be better to farm her?

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by Lantern

AP shells. You are looking a 1.5x damage modifier vs 1.1x? modifier for artillery spotting cut-in, and that's without counting the extra crit bonus against high armored enemies from the shell itself. Either that or don't bring them at all and stick to double attack with a radar. As far as my experience go, any artillery spotting cut-in that isn't the 2 main gun + AP shell combo stinks. BB should always stick to 2 guns + radar/AP shell(or Samshiki for land bosses) combo and never a third gun.

Ok, thanks. I needed that advice. But, E-3 is quickly exhausting me of resources because second fleet can't seem to hit the BB hime and Kitakami could only do a max of 100 damage (with torpedo) cut in. I see that some admirals put a fast BB in second fleet, does this affect compass chan in anyway, if I swap one destroyer from fleet 2 to fleet 1?

[risingstar3110]

Didn't realise Yamashiro got her Kai-Ni. Wheee... the unlucky sisters finally joined the holo club...

[Lantern]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Ok, thanks. I needed that advice. But, E-3 is quickly exhausting me of resources because second fleet can't seem to hit the BB hime and Kitakami could only do a max of 100 damage (with torpedo) cut in. I see that some admirals put a fast BB in second fleet, does this affect compass chan in anyway, if I swap one destroyer from fleet 2 to fleet 1?

By FBB, you mean Bismarck Drei. People bring her because she has comparable night battle power to Yamato-class thanks to her extra torpedo stat. The Kongou sisters are useless against BBHime and CVWD. You need like over base 170 night battle power to reliably deal heavy damage to her using double attack, or 120+ using torpedo cut-in. Your KTKM did only 100 damage because she missed half of her cut-in (torpedo cut-in = 1.5x times 2).

Some choices for you to think about:

Spoiler:

Double attack set ups:

KTKM: 15.5cm x 2 + midget sub
228 night battle power with double attack

Ooi: 15.5cm x 2 + midget sub
228 night battle power

Kiso: 15.5cm x 2 + midget sub
200 night battle power

Yamato/Musashi: 46cm x 2 + Type 1 AP Shell
200 night battle power

Bismarck Drei: 46cm x 2 + Type 1 Shell
196 night battle power

Myoukou/Haguro K2: No.2 cannon x 2
186 night battle power

Tone/Chikuma K2: No.3 cannon x 2
179/180 night battle power without +10 from maintenance crew

Takao/Atago: No.3 cannon x 2
176 night battle power

Prinz Eugen (if you leveled her): Eugen cannon x 2 + Eugen radar
182 night battle power

Jintsuu K2: 15.5cm x 2
182 night battle power

Nagara/Kuma/Natori: 15.5cm x 2
172 night battle power

Er... Sendai K2 couldn't break the 170 mark with 15.5cm and will need to resort to 20.3cm for that, but I'll mention her anyway because, YASEN!
Sendai K2: 15.5cm x 2
169 night battle power


Multiply all of the above by 1.2 to get their double attack firepower per hit.

=======


Torpedo Cut-in set ups (when they trigger):

KTKM: Quint x 2 + midget sub
(238 x 1.5 power) x 2 = ~300 soft capped power x 2 with cut-in

Ayanami: Quint x 2
(177 x 1.5 power) x 2 = 265 power x 2

Shigure: Quint x 2
(161 x 1.5 power) x 2 = 241 power x 2

Yukikaze: Quint x 2
(168 x 1.5 power) x 2 = 252 power x 2

Ushio: Quint x 2
(150 x 1.5 power) x 2 = 225 power x 2

Not sure if I should mention the two lucky CAs since unless you equip them with only torpedos, gun/torpedo cut-in's modifier is only 1.3x times 2, a mere 0.1x higher than double attack's 1.2x times 2. But giving up daylight double attacks for torpedo cut-ins is kinda....

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by Lantern

By FBB, you mean Bismarck Drei. People bring her because she has comparable night battle power to Yamato-class thanks to her extra torpedo stat. The Kongou sisters are useless against BBHime and CVWD. You need over 170 night battle power to reliably deal heavy damage to her using double attack, or 120+ using torpedo cut-in. Your KTKM did only 100 damage because she missed half of her cut-in (torpedo cut-in = 1.5x times 2).

Some choices for you to think about:

Spoiler:

Double attack set ups:

KTKM: 15.5cm x 2 + midget sub
228 night battle power with double attack

Ooi: 15.5cm x 2 + midget sub
228 night battle power

Kiso: 15.5cm x 2 + midget sub
200 night battle power

Myoukou/Haguro K2: No.2 cannon x 2
186 night battle power

Tone/Chikuma K2: No.3 cannon x 2
179/180 night battle power without +10 from maintenance crew

Prinz Eugen (if you leveled her): Eugen cannon x 2 + Eugen radar
182 night battle power

Jintsuu K2: 15.5cm x 2
182 night battle power

Yamato/Musashi: 46cm x 2 + Type 1 AP Shell
200 night battle power

Bismarck Drei: 46cm x 2 + Type 1 Shell
186 night battle power



Torpedo Cut-in set ups:

KTKM: Quint x 2 + midget sub
(238 x 1.5 power) x 2 = ~300 soft capped power x 2 with cut-in

Ayanami: Quint x 2
(177 x 1.5 power) x 2 = 265 power x 2

Shigure: Quint x 2
(161 x 1.5 power) x 2 = 241 power x 2

Yukikaze: Quint x 2
(168 x 1.5 power) x 2 = 252 power x 2

Ushio: Quint x 2
(150 x 1.5 power) x 2 = 225 power x 2

Not sure if I should mention the two lucky CAs since unless you equip them with only torpedos, gun/torpedo cut-in's modifier is only 1.3x times 2, a mere 0.1x higher than double attack's 1.2x times 2. But giving up daylight double attacks for torpedo cut-ins is kinda....

My Kitakami is armed with 1 midget sub with 2 additional quad torpedos, making it 171 value. Then shouldn't this value be enough to do heavy damage to a Hime?

[Lantern]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

My Kitakami is armed with 1 midget sub with 2 additional quad torpedos, making it 171 value. Then shouldn't this value be enough to do heavy damage to a Hime?

Read what I said above: Your KTKM did only 100 damage because she missed half of her cut-in (torpedo cut-in = 1.5x times 2).
Torpedo cut-in isn't one single huge blast of damage. It's actually two consecutive pretty big blast similar in a way to double attacks, but the total damage done is shown instead (that's how torpedo works in the game anyway). One of your 2 hit cut-in missed, resulting in a not so satisfactory number. And yes cut-ins can miss.

p.s. You're using torpedo cut-in, don't forget to put the 1.5x modifier when you're calculating their attack power. Your KTKM has up to 300 capped night battle power per hit when she triggers her torpedo cut-in.

Edit: Corrected some numbers in my original post above.

[Saint X]

Speedgrinding my 2 other Maruyu is a pain.

90% i have to send her to the docks.

[Cyprene]

Cloud: "btw i saw amatsukaze drops at e2 and e3, which would be better to farm her?"

KankoreShuukai doesn't list Amatsukaze as dropping at E-3, only E-2.
I ran E-2 46 times over the past few days and didn't get her, so odds are pretty low. On the plus side, I did get Hatsukaze, so I'm calling it a win.