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View Poll Results: GATE - Episode 15 Rating
Perfect 10 1 5.56%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 5 27.78%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 7 38.89%
7 out of 10 : Good 2 11.11%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 11.11%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 5.56%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2016-01-30, 07:15   Link #61
Top Sergeant
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Yao doesn't really understand. All she knows are rumors that "men in green" can defeat a dragon (she doesn't know how many are necessary for that), and that "Itami can do it".
I agree completely. Yao's people are desperate, and desperate people can cling to the slimmest of hopes.
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Old 2016-01-30, 08:20   Link #62
Haak
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I don't think you're being entirely fair to Yanagida. He correctly read that Itami would eventually go off to kill the dragon. His offer was to give him a pretext to take his squad with him. Because it's in both of their interests for Itami to succeed, and going alone sounds pretty suicidal.

I'm not saying he's being altruistic (though I'll note, Yanagida's so far shown to be a loyal soldier, not some kind of crook), but in the end it's about dotting i's and crossing t's so no one's declared AWOL or a war criminal or god knows what.
I think that if Yanagida really did simply have Itami's best interests at heart then he would've focused on stopping Itami altogether (which should be within his power if not his superiors') rather than persuade Itami to put more of his men in harms way. Maybe he's not entirely scummy but I don't think he's some innocent bystander just doing damage control. Even a small attempt at manipulating events in favour of putting soldiers lives in harms way just for resources and wealth still seems like a scummy thing to do. I did consider the possibility that Yanagida was just the messenger and didn't believe it was justified either but I couldn't see anything to persuade me.
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Old 2016-01-30, 09:38   Link #63
Anh_Minh
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I think that if Yanagida really did simply have Itami's best interests at heart then he would've focused on stopping Itami altogether (which should be within his power if not his superiors') rather than persuade Itami to put more of his men in harms way.
Like I said, he isn't being altruistic. Patriotic, maybe. Ambitious, certainly. My point is, he didn't push Itami very hard, merely removed obstacles. And he didn't do it solely for his personal advancement, but for Japan's.

And - with Itami going being a given - Yanagida's plan to provide him with adequate men and supplies is the one that was least likely to get people killed.

Quote:
Maybe he's not entirely scummy but I don't think he's some innocent bystander just doing damage control. Even a small attempt at manipulating events in favour of putting soldiers lives in harms way just for resources and wealth still seems like a scummy thing to do.
Risking your life for national interests is part and parcel of being a soldier. At most, you could say that kind of decision is above his pay grade, but it's not like his superiors censured him.
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Old 2016-01-30, 23:26   Link #64
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
I think that if Yanagida really did simply have Itami's best interests at heart then he would've focused on stopping Itami altogether (which should be within his power if not his superiors') rather than persuade Itami to put more of his men in harms way.
The fact is most of the JSDF are sympathetic to Yao's plight. However they are not heroes, but soldiers. They have loved ones to take care of, mouths to feed. And as such none of them could be a hero even if they wanted to. The Commander of the base knows full well it is within his power to save the Dark Elves, but it is not within his authority to do so.

Itami has no family. He could be a hero because as far as he is concerned, no one is depending on him. (His ex-wife is, but not officially). This is why the rest of the base thinks of him first.

In the end what is lacking is political will. And this means some social engineering is in order. Itami is just a catalyst. It is his choice alone on if he wanted to get the ball rolling, but once he choose he would not have to do everything alone.
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Old 2016-02-02, 05:06   Link #65
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I just want to remind everyone that from the very beginning, the major political conflict had always been about cultural shock on the part of the Empire.

Specifically, they could not comprehend nearly every decision made by the JSDF, as none of it makes any sense from the Empire's perspective. The leaders of the Empire try their best to work with what they know, but in essence they kept hitting road blocks because the JSDF never responded in a way that they could comprehend.

For example, the Empire never considered it important enough to return enslaved Japanese citizens. They could have done this at any time, and had they realised how vital it was to Japan they could have got some good will out of it. Yet culturally they didn't see it as anything wrong.

Thus, to the Empire the response appeared to be a massive over-reaction. And that was why Tyuule thinks killing the girl would cause all out retaliatory war. Once again, she is making an error. But that's basically the main source of conflict in this show. The political channels are basically blocked by cultural differences.
Well it also fails because didnt he decide to cough up any remaining prisoners they had, therefore it make little sense for him to assassinate one freed prisoner...I mean if the girl was pregnant I guess it could make some sense but as it stands Zolzol gets like no benefit outta killing the former prisoner besides being needlessly petty not exactly the best move for a dude trying to steer his way into being Emperor.
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Old 2016-02-02, 05:27   Link #66
quigonkenny
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Well it also fails because didnt he decide to cough up any remaining prisoners they had, therefore it make little sense for him to assassinate one freed prisoner...I mean if the girl was pregnant I guess it could make some sense but as it stands Zolzol gets like no benefit outta killing the former prisoner besides being needlessly petty not exactly the best move for a dude trying to steer his way into being Emperor.
Well, the assassination was supposed to be blamed on Piņa. I honestly don't know what her supposed motivation would have been, though...
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Old 2016-02-02, 06:11   Link #67
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Oh well that is even worse she has even less motivation. I binged this show so the details kinda bleed together but yeah.
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Old 2016-02-02, 06:31   Link #68
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Oh well that is even worse she has even less motivation. I binged this show so the details kinda bleed together but yeah.
Keep in mind that culturally GATE Empire's way of life had been the dominant one. The assumption, incorrect as it might have been, was that Japan would be so angry at the assassination as to not care what Pina's motivation was. Because this is what the Empire does to other weaker cultures in its history. The bunny queen is simply assuming there are people in Japan who want to burn the Empire to the ground and she is giving them the excuse and justifications.

The fact that the JSDF doesn't want to deal with anarchy is an alien concept, because if the Empire is in Japan's shoes they would simply have mass executions following the conquest until the whole thing quiets down.
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Old 2016-02-02, 18:20   Link #69
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Well I guess Pina's in a pretty week position...honestly amazingly everything worked out well for Zorzol, sure he got his buttkicked but Pina's Position basically got deep sixed thanks to JSDF bombing the Senate. She wont be getting votes for anything now.
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Old 2016-02-02, 19:14   Link #70
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Zorzal had always been the Crown Prince. No matter what the JSDF was always going to have to deal with him, as he is of the mind that he would keep fighting to the death. That was also why the Bunny Queen needed him alive, as other options are far more pragmatic and thus she need Zorzal to take control.
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Old 2016-02-02, 19:37   Link #71
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Sure I am just saying they kneecaped one of his biggest counterbalances.
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Old 2016-02-03, 02:13   Link #72
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Her position has always been pretty weak. She's way down in the order, her mother isn't high born, and she's been "playing" at knights.

And a lot of the Senate are like the emperor - they don't understand the force disparity. Or didn't, till the Senate strike.
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Old 2016-02-03, 02:21   Link #73
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I dont think they dont understand the Force disparity so much as they are not used to being outpowered so radically so its hard to sink in plus luckily for them JSDF doesnt benefit for a full on collapse of the Empire and a Civil War.

But yes I agree she has always been weak but they have made all opposition to Zorzal weaker so its still a win for him at the cost of losing a few slaves, a few grunts, some pride and a beating not bad return for him considering no one really planned that one.
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Old 2016-02-03, 18:21   Link #74
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The Senators who attended the firepower demonstration at Pina's outdoor party were certainly getting a very good idea of what modern weaponry would do to their contemporary forces. They are intelligent men; fools would likely not last long in the Senate of that Empire
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Old 2016-02-03, 18:22   Link #75
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The Senators who attended the firepower demonstration at Pina's outdoor party were certainly getting a very good idea of what modern weaponry would do to their contemporary forces. They are intelligent men; fools would likely not last long in the Senate of that Empire
But they were the guys who were already inclined toward peace.
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Old 2016-02-03, 19:00   Link #76
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They are only inclined to peace because they know they have no chance....heck even Zorzal is not pushing for war.
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Old 2016-02-03, 21:14   Link #77
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Zorzal said he wants to pacify Japan, I m kind of lost what he really meant.
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Old 2016-02-04, 06:11   Link #78
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Zorzal said he wants to pacify Japan, I m kind of lost what he really meant.
Basically, to defeat them in war and punish them for all the disgrace they have brought to the Empire.
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Old 2016-02-04, 19:53   Link #79
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But they were the guys who were already inclined toward peace.
And now they are far more than 'inclined'
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Old 2016-02-05, 02:54   Link #80
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The point was, that was preaching to the choir. If they want to change the empire, they'll have to convince the guys (from the emperor on down) who can't imagine a future where they're not top dogs able to just pillage their way to wealth.

(Which makes me wonder if the empire can even transition to something more peaceful. Tyranny and slavery aren't deal-breakers in our, rich modern nations', economic partners, but I don't think Japan would stand for the empire's war mongering - it's ultimately bad for business. And what would happen if some provinces, like Italica, decided they want to secede from the empire and become a Japanese protectorate instead?)

Last edited by Anh_Minh; 2016-02-05 at 15:08.
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