Madoka Magica - Movie 3 Spoilers and Speculations

[zato_1one]

Isn't it because Homura erased QB race (except for one) so no more magical girl = no more witch?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Well, obviously it's the best wish she could've personally made at that moment; it's the one she made. No one willingly opts for suboptimal wishes in that sort of situation. My point was that it wasn't the best possible wish. Infact, you kind of changed the goalposts here

Well, you couldn't come up with a better wish yourself so it's not like you can even prove that. Still, my point was that your point was moot, because it doesn't matter if you or someone else could come up with a better wish. You weren't there facing Walpurgisnacht. Madoka was there, so all that matters is if she could have come up with a better wish, and she couldn't. So yeah, I did change my goalpost, but I did it because what you were talking about was a moot point.

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

One thing I'd like to know, are we back to a witch-haunted world now?

No. It seems the Maju still exist though.

Originally Posted by zato_1one

Isn't it because Homura erased QB race (except for one) so no more magical girl = no more witch?

She says they're needed, so I don't think she erased them. They're probably became her slaves or something.

[Vegard Aune]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

No. It seems the Maju still exist though.

It does? I saw no implications of either witches nor wraiths in what very little we saw of Homura's world. I for one am going by the assumption that they don't, which is the main reason why there's still a part of me that questions exactly what it is about this ending that fills me so with rage... If it turns out that the witches are indeed still a factor in this new universe though, said part of me will most likely shut up and hold his peace forever because that really would mean that the ending to the show might as well never have happened. Oh, and wraiths being a presence in this new universe wouldn't make any sense because no Madokami purifying Soul Gems = No curses warping and distorting the world on their own because they'd just become witches and familiars instead.

[AuraTwilight]

Homura did mention to Sayaka that she could oppose her after "We defeat all the Wraiths." Sooo....there's that.

[Kazu-kun]

@ Vegard Aune

There are no witches because Homura suppresses them. Maju are allowed to exist because Homura probably uses them as fuel.



EDIT: btw, it seems Madoka didn't have her memories inside QB's barrier because she entrusted her memory to Sayaka and Nagisa beforehand, not because of the barrier's influence. If this is true, it would lend credibility to what she tells Homura about her true feelings.

[Jimmy C]

Let me get this straight. The Incubators had isolated Homura's Soul Gem in a sort of pocket dimension and were planning on studying how Madoka would get to her, right?

If that is so, then it doesn't make sense. This is the kind of experiment they would have performed right after their first contracted girls vanished instead of becoming witches. We know they had a theoretical idea as to what would happen after a Soul Gem shattered, or wouldn't have offered contracts in the first place. So when things didn't go according to plan, the logical step would be to perform experiments to find out what's causing the difference.

If the experiments yielded results back then, they'd have found out about Madoka already. If they didn't yield results, repeating on Homura would make no difference.

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

If the experiments yielded results back then, they'd have found out about Madoka already.

No, Kyubey is only trying this now because Homura told it about Madoka and the previous timelines close to the end of episode 12. It gave it ideas, which is always BAD.

[night_sentinel]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I thought about it more deeply afterwards, and... I have to admit that you're right.

Even if Madoka isn't omniscient, and "only" knows everything pertaining to magical girls, that obviously should include knowing everything about Homura. Heck, Homura should be one of the very last people who could take Madoka by surprise.

I think the scenario is still possible if we accept the two premise. One that Madoka's power only affects Magical girl. I'm also thinking that omniscient is perhaps a bad word to describe it. Perhaps, what Madoka has is something closer to omnipresent. She can observe the lives of magical girls everywhere. I think this knowledge alone is enough to do her job. Besides, omniscient gives rise to the thought that Madoka knows even the inner thoughts of the magical girls which is a bit creepy.

Another premise that we have to accept is "isolation field". Some kind of technology by the incubator which allows a place wherein Madoka cannot observe what is happening inside.

Using this we can infer how the movie was possible. Since the incubators are not magical girls, they can plan something like this and Madoka would have no way to observe said planning. This even become more easier due to the existence of "isolation field." Once the incubator managed to put Homura or any Puella Magi inside the field, Madoka's knowledge about them cease to exist. The only way Madoka can influence and know what is happening would be enter the field herself.

Which the incubators are counting on. ^^
And thus, the movie happened.

I've also thought of a third premise. And that is Homura is a walking exception to the laws. She managed to remember Madoka when its impossible and her existence in the new world is a paradox. Judging from what her conversation with Kyuubey, she doesn't seemed to have changed her wish still. Besides, Madoka's karma - the reason her wish worked in the first place is due to Homura.

So in a way, I'm not really surprised that Homura's actions cannot be predicted by Madokami.

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

So I only have one wish, even if it might sound like I'm grabbing for everything. I wish for an end to despair, and for bliss, fulfillment, and the pursuit of joy to fill what remains. If the world distorts, let it. If the universe is torn apart by it, let it be so. I have no need for a cosmos built as a stage for misery. Remake the world in my image, and I shall never desire again.

Grant my wish."

This wish.

While I'm sure that your a swell person, Aura. But, even if you are the smartest and kindest person in the world. I don't think remaking the world in your own image is going to be a good wish, ever.

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

For instance, "I don't wish people to suffer anymore. I want this world to be one where everyone receives happiness that exceeds their suffering; that no one need tolerate the imperfections of the world. I wish the world had always been Heaven, that the world's distortions twisted for the benefit of all sentient beings in equal measure."

Well, this wish is better than the other one. Though, it does run in the problem on how can you measure happiness and suffering. And since, I believe in the theory that happiness is a state of mind rather than what you have. I'm having an uncomfortable feeling that this might be painting smiles effect where you are effectively lobotomizing people.

And taking out the imperfection of the world. What imperfection? Who gets to decide what is imperfect? Some may say that the fact that the world isn't perfect is what makes it wonderful.

Still, I will concede that perhaps your wish will make the world a heaven. But, it will be your version of what Heaven is. There might be many people who will think that your vision of Heaven is technically hell for them.

And there is the tiny problem that your going to turn in a Witch eventually.

The reason why Madoka's wish is good in my opinion is because it addresses the key root of the Puella Magi system. No matter how much good a Puella Magi does, it will be undone because they will turn into a witch. Thus, one of the best wishes in that situation are variations of what Madoka did. Eliminate the witch problem.

[Triple_R]

When Madoka became Madokami, she gained access to all knowledge about all magical girls in all universes/timelines. However, she only gained the knowledge that existed prior to her wish. In other words, she didn't gain knowledge to how people may respond to her new godlike status. She didn't get "butterfly effect" knowledge, you could say. That's her "blind spot", that Homura and Kyubey are able to take advantage of due to their knowledge of her existence. Homura retained knowledge of Madoka's existence in order to maintain Homura's own wish. You can't protect someone who you don't even know anything at all about, of course.

I'm going to go with this for now, because it makes some sense to me, and it enables the plot to work.

[Kazu-kun]

I'm a pretty pragmatic person so I personally think Urobuchi just messed up, but I've got to admit those theories sound pretty interesting.

[Wanderer]

Question:
What was the explanation for how Homura took Madoka's powers? Was there even one, or did she kinda just do it? I wasn't able to follow the Japanese well for that part of the movie.

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Or maybe Homura never escaped the dream barrier, and she's just a Homura-witch dancing with her beloved Madoka-Familiar-Puppet.

As much as it might seem like a cop-out, some variation of it could work.

After all, the real nightmare started after she escaped. Homura rules over the universe, but does she rule over the one and only universe?

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Madoka being able to wish for literally absolutely anything is so central to the plot that there is no dismissing it whatsoever.

I don't know how true this is, exactly. To what extent she could have pataphysically reshaped the universe is not absolutely clear.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Kyubey doesn't Monkey's Paw you, but he doesn't make it that easy for you either. Why do you think Madoka's explicit wish was so incredibly specific if she felt that Kyubey would honor the intent of her wish no matter what? He doesn't do that. He honors the exact wording, that's it. Going by the exact wording of your wish, I'm pretty confident that Kyubey ends up creating a world where people are basically all high on drugs, until they die.

I don't think Kyuubei has any control over the nature of the wish he grants. And obviously he can't refuse to grant wishes once contracted.

Interesting is Kyuubei. He has the power to grant wishes. Where did he get that power? Also, he's emotionless, yet goal-driven. His real name is Incubator. What's an incubator? Doesn't all this mean he is a tool whose purpose is production of magical girls? And if he is, whose tool is he?

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Given how Kyubey grants wishes, I think that overreaching is a bad, bad idea. Needlessly risky.

I completely agree. Madoka's wish produced the Maju. Who knows what another wish might have produced.

What Madoka wanted was an end to the twisted system of MGs becoming what they fight. Despair itself, or some such, is too lofty a goal.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

EDIT: btw, it seems Madoka didn't have her memories inside QB's barrier because she entrusted her memory to Sayaka and Nagisa beforehand, not because of the barrier's influence. If this is true, it would lend credibility to what she tells Homura about her true feelings.

Was it explained how and/or why Modoka did that?

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I'm a pretty pragmatic person so I personally think Urobuchi just messed up, but I've got to admit those theories sound pretty interesting.

Regarding the possible continuity issues, are we sure that the explanations of Godika's nature are identical for the 12th TV episode and for the 2nd movie?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

Question:
What was the explanation for how Homura took Madoka's powers? Was there even one, or did she kinda just do it? I wasn't able to follow the Japanese well for that part of the movie.

I don't think Homura took Madoka's power, only her ability to rewrite reality. How? Who knows.

Originally Posted by Wanderer

Was it explained how and/or why Modoka did that?

I'm not sure but she probably did it to prevent QB from getting what he wanted.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I'm a pretty pragmatic person so I personally think Urobuchi just messed up, but I've got to admit those theories sound pretty interesting.

You're basically right. Urobuchi probably doesn't care about slight inconsistencies ("slight" in the sense that they're tied to short pieces of dialogue, or some small scene; not slight in their ramifications, which can in fact be huge). In reading Urobuchi interviews, it's clear that he's a writer that doesn't sweat the minutia (he really left a lot of things completely up to Shinbo).

This actually isn't that uncommon for professional writers. Quite often, it's the fans that care more about precise details than the writers do. So it actually often falls to fans to make sense out of everything. This comes up a lot in comic books, which is probably why I naturally take to doing this for Madoka Magica as well.

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I don't think Homura took Madoka's power, only her ability to rewrite reality. How? Who knows.

I mean, how did Homura gain the power she did?

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

I mean, how did Homura gain the power she did?

What exactly did she do on-screen? Did she jump on top of Madoka with an "I'm absorbing your powers!" look on her face? Did she do something to Kyubey's tech?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

I mean, how did Homura gain the power she did?

She's either using the power from the curses that were purified by Madoka or she somehow managed to tap into the power from the curses accumulated by her own soul gem across timelines. Or maybe both, I'm not sure.

[kumakumo]

Don't understand why people think Homura is bad since she strip madoka from godhood to make her able to live a happy normal life that madoka "really want" to be,
Madoka wish to erase all witch was force since she need to escape from the dire situation they are in and also save Homura from her endless time travel and make all of Homura hardwork didn't becomes useless.
But in truth madoka just want to live a normal happy live with her family and friends but she have to make a wish to becomes goddess and separate from her family and normal life in order to answer what Homura have done for her that's make Homura feel guilty so now she take over the role for Madoka instead so Madoka can live a life she want.
In the scene after ED Homura freak out when she hear a glass rustle that's probably means that deep down she fear that something unexpected might happen in her world.
also Homura's eye that look tired imply that her mind feel unrest and half moon+Homura's fall may imply that her world is unstable like half moon that need another half to be complete and stable, and with it unstable now her mind may sink into the madness?
Homura able to becomes god created from curse may due to equilibrium of hope and curse and there are a god of hope like Madoka so Madoka wish to becomes god may didn't somehow meaningless

Speculation
- In the scene in classroom, where all student don't have the real face but only sensei, magical girl, Kamijou, Sayaka and Nakasawa-kung?? after Homu's world was destroy we see that those people got carry out from Homu's world but no Nakazawa-kung??? is he stuck in Homu's world? lol
- Sayaka got revived just like Shinbo wanted so this ending may be Shinbo idea. lol
- When Homura create her new soulgem she create it from the pink thread that pink thread may be Madoka power?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by kumakumo

- When Homura create her new soulgem she create it from the pink thread that pink thread may be Madoka power?

I don't think that's power. I think it's what Homura refers to as "the memory of Madoka before Madoka disappeared from this world" when she's talking with Sayaka at the end.

It seems that by taking that fragment from the system, the whole system was effected, and that's the reason Sayaka and the other dead magical girls were able to come to life.

Sayaka:"Hey Homura, do you realize what you've done??"

Homura:"From that way of speaking, it seems you understand what happened, Miki Sayaka"

Sayaka: "You took away part of the "circle of life" (circle of karma system made by madokami) didn't you! The power of hope that saved all the magical girls!"

Homura: "I only took a little fragment of it. The memory of Madoka before Madoka disappeared from this world. But it seems I had affected all of you as well. You're no longer able to return to where you were, don't you?"

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

What exactly did she do on-screen? Did she jump on top of Madoka with an "I'm absorbing your powers!" look on her face?

Kinda sorta, yes.

As Godoka came to reclaim her, Homura looked completely passive.

Then suddenly, once Godoka was close enough, Homura gave a crazy smirk completely unlike any expression she'd ever shown before, grabs Madoka's hands, and says "I've been waiting for this moment".

Then dark energy burst forth from where Homura gripped Godoka's hands.

From then on, I don't remember the sequence of events so well. Lots of dark imagery with a creepy-as-hell smile on Homura's face the whole time (for me, that expression was the most mind-numbing part of the whole experience). It involved Homura-darkness enveloping the universe, Homura's visual transformation into Lucifer-Homura, and Homura gleefully swallowing a soul-gem looking thingy (but not actually a soul gem) that contained Madoka or something. Not necessary in that order.

If someone understood/remembers better...

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I don't think that's power. I think it's what Homura refers to as "the memory of Madoka before Madoka disappeared from this world" when she's talking with Sayaka at the end.

It seems that by taking that fragment from the system, the whole system was effected, and that's the reason Sayaka and the other dead magical girls were able to come to life.

Interesting potential here is Sayaka as the next segment's protagonist, along with Nagisa, taking up arms to fight for a better world... in which they can't exist.

[Sheba]

I kinda want to see Sayaka to fight for everyone's happy end. To fit the warrior of justice she trying to fit in herself, also the poor girl need some kind of happy end.