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Old 2018-03-29, 23:19   Link #41
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
directly no but indirectly you are.

- Buy Manga
- Publisher Pays pedo
- Pedo buys child porn
- Child Porn Producer Victimize Child.

what is so difficult to understand that new purchase of this guys work will go toward victimizing more children?
Isn't there a gap in logic here? That he will continue to consume child porn?

I mean if that were true, than sure, I suppose one should think twice.
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Old 2018-03-31, 04:23   Link #42
Sheba
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I think its Eidy in this thread who said it the more sensible thing about it, in the end its all up to the individuals to decide what to do with their RK merchandise. There is no right or wrong answer about it.
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Old 2018-03-31, 05:58   Link #43
dragon1412
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yeah, i'm agree, how one deal with it is their own choice, I'm perfectly fine with RK.
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Old 2018-03-31, 14:43   Link #44
dniv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
But he won't be getting it from me. It's the difference between "something wrong is happening" (which it is, all the time) and "I'm knowingly doing something wrong".



I'll turn the question around. Why help pay someone to molest children when there are so many other mangaka?

The past can't be helped. But that's no excuse to close our eyes now. You can if you want to, of course. But don't pretend you're not responsible for your choices just because hypothetical other people make similar ones.
What would you say then about reading and enjoying it online?
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Favorite Anime: Castle in the Sky (why is this so underrated ) Gankutsuou; Railgun S; Little Witch Academia (one of the most philosophically interesting/deep shows that I've seen, while also being the single most feel good of feel good shows that I have ever seen; literally the weirdest combination ever); Kill la Kill (because it saved anime )
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Old 2018-03-31, 15:26   Link #45
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dniv View Post
What would you say then about reading and enjoying it online?
- That two wrongs don't make a right. (What? I never said I was a saint. )
- If you keep silent about it, it's one thing, but if you advertise how good it is, it becomes... complicated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Isn't there a gap in logic here? That he will continue to consume child porn?

I mean if that were true, than sure, I suppose one should think twice.
Yes, if you sincerely believe he's a changed man and will never again do anything like that, I suppose you can support him with a clear conscience.
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Old 2018-03-31, 18:49   Link #46
Demi.
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It's hard to see this as such a big deal when it was legal a few years back and the charges for it are relatively minor for even the maximum sentence. The individual doesn't create morality; society does. More specifically, a persons morality is shaped by society. That's why fucked up shit was completely normal and accepted at different periods of time. They still are in certain parts of the world. His only crime is keeping his pedo stash after a law was enacted to make it illegal. That being said, i'll continue to support the works I like without letting emotions cloud my judgement.
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Old 2018-03-31, 21:24   Link #47
Mad Pierrot
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It's a bit ironic considering Watsuki refused in Buso Renkin to draw naked characters. The staff behind the Kenshin OVAs actually made more suggestive scenes but with adult characters.
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Old 2018-04-01, 04:47   Link #48
Eisdrache
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
It's hard to see this as such a big deal when it was legal a few years back and the charges for it are relatively minor for even the maximum sentence. The individual doesn't create morality; society does. More specifically, a persons morality is shaped by society. That's why fucked up shit was completely normal and accepted at different periods of time. They still are in certain parts of the world. His only crime is keeping his pedo stash after a law was enacted to make it illegal. That being said, i'll continue to support the works I like without letting emotions cloud my judgement.
Today I learned that child pornography is only bad if there is a harsh punishment for it.
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Old 2018-04-01, 09:34   Link #49
Demi.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
Today I learned that child pornography is only bad if there is a harsh punishment for it.


Than you may as well not purchase anything from Japan because of the lax laws on child pornography(or lack thereof until recently). Things don't instantly become worse the moment there is criminal charges attached to them. Morals are a collective social contract of interpersonal conduct. It takes time for change on a societal level, and child sexual exploitation is still deeply ingrained in Japan. It's been on the rise ever since a law has been enacted to quell it. Pornographic dvds of children continue to be found in the Akihabara electronics district well after the new law was enacted. So forgive me if I think it's stupid to make a large deal out of someone viewing content that continues to be readily available.

Watsuki won't have his life ruined over this, he probably won't even lose any popularity within Japan. There will be a few spiteful foreigners opting out of purchasing his works for a reason that has no relation to the quality of said works. That's it.
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Last edited by Demi.; 2018-04-01 at 20:31.
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Old 2018-04-02, 02:55   Link #50
dniv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
- That two wrongs don't make a right. (What? I never said I was a saint. )
- If you keep silent about it, it's one thing, but if you advertise how good it is, it becomes... complicated.
That second point is interesting.
__________________
Favorite Series: 0. To aru Series 1. Ze Tian Ji 2. Reincarnator
3. The King's Avatar/ Mushoku Tensei/ Legendary Moonlight Sculptor 4. Martial World/ Great Teacher Onizuka 5. KnB/KLK/Detective Conan/ Clannad AF/Bakuman

Favorite Game Series: #0 The legend of heroes (everything but especially ZERO) #1 Zero escape series. #2 Persona series. #3 Pokemon. #4 Bravely Default series. ; #5 Ace Attorney (including the spin-offs); #6 Legend of Zelda. #7 Dragon Quest (including the spin-offs)

Favorite Anime: Castle in the Sky (why is this so underrated ) Gankutsuou; Railgun S; Little Witch Academia (one of the most philosophically interesting/deep shows that I've seen, while also being the single most feel good of feel good shows that I have ever seen; literally the weirdest combination ever); Kill la Kill (because it saved anime )
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Old 2018-04-02, 05:26   Link #51
Eisdrache
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
Than you may as well not purchase anything from Japan because of the lax laws on child pornography(or lack thereof until recently).
That makes no sense. We're strictly discussing things in the context of child pornography.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
Things don't instantly become worse the moment there is criminal charges attached to them.
Indeed. They're already bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
Morals are a collective social contract of interpersonal conduct. It takes time for change on a societal level, and child sexual exploitation is still deeply ingrained in Japan. It's been on the rise ever since a law has been enacted to quell it. Pornographic dvds of children continue to be found in the Akihabara electronics district well after the new law was enacted.
None of which make child pornography more acceptable in the slightest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
So forgive me if I think it's stupid to make a large deal out of someone viewing content that continues to be readily available.

Watsuki won't have his life ruined over this, he probably won't even lose any popularity within Japan. There will be a few spiteful foreigners opting out of purchasing his works for a reason that has no relation to the quality of said works. That's it.
It's quite amazing that you post a picture of missing the point yet argue incoherently. Nobody is telling you to throw away your already purchased books nor do the stories suddenly drop in quality. You are however supporting the author by purchasing his goods while being fully aware of his actions. Apparently it is spiteful to choose not to continue supporting such a person.

Last edited by Eisdrache; 2018-04-02 at 05:41.
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Old 2018-04-02, 08:27   Link #52
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
That makes no sense. We're strictly discussing things in the context of child pornography.
Maybe his point is that, since it was legal until recently, all Japanese are pedophiles. Quite a leap, but honestly, I'm still trying to wrap my head around his claim that pedophilia was "no big deal".
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Old 2018-04-02, 09:07   Link #53
Demi.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
That makes no sense. We're strictly discussing things in the context of child pornography.
It makes perfect sense. If child pornography is treated as a minor crime, then society will see it as such. This is not a Watsuki problem, but a Japanese one.

Quote:
It's quite amazing that you post a picture of missing the point yet argue incoherently. Nobody is telling you to throw away your already purchased books nor do the stories suddenly drop in quality. You are however supporting the author by purchasing his goods while being fully aware of his actions. Apparently it is spiteful to choose not to continue supporting such a person.
You tell me i'm arguing incoherently and yet you continue to miss the point. Pedophilia was an accepted norm in Japan until recently, and they still skirt the line with it even now that it's illegal. Support what you enjoy and try not to let emotions afflict you with irrational decision making. You only hurt yourself by not buying a product which you enjoy. It's like not buying a diamond because you're worried they're a blood diamond from Africa.

Quote:
Maybe his point is that, since it was legal until recently, all Japanese are pedophiles. Quite a leap, but honestly, I'm still trying to wrap my head around his claim that pedophilia was "no big deal".
It's "no big deal" because Japan sees it as such. Lets get real here, a producer and a viewer are worlds apart. You're hardly aiding in the production of the stuff by viewing it when Japan makes it so easily accessible. It's going to take many more years to remove the saturation that still exists on the market.
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Old 2018-04-02, 10:01   Link #54
Eisdrache
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If I knew for a fact that it was a blood diamond then yes, I would not buy it.

You can choose to help by not supporting artists that are tangled in child pornography. Why would Japan change its mindset if people happily continue to support convicted criminals. It doesn't really matter to you what Japan thinks. If you believe child pornography to be a terrible thing and I assume you do(?) then you can't just "forget" what you believe when it's convenient for you.
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Old 2018-04-02, 13:32   Link #55
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Maybe his point is that, since it was legal until recently, all Japanese are pedophiles. Quite a leap, but honestly, I'm still trying to wrap my head around his claim that pedophilia was "no big deal".
I don't think it's that. But you'd have to admit even they were overly lenient on that and still are, and I guess one can argue even if they weren't pedophilles themselves, not being actively opposed to it makes them complicit in a way.... It could be a reason to boycott Japan.
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Let us start here from Square one. No... from zero!
You do not wish to know anything. You wish only to speak.
That which you know, you ignore, because it is inconvenient.
That which you do not know, you invent.

Avatar/Sig courtesy of TheEroKing
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2018-04-02 at 13:53.
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Old 2018-04-03, 01:03   Link #56
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
If I knew for a fact that it was a blood diamond then yes, I would not buy it.
Never buy diamonds then. Or clothes. Or electronics. Or, well, pretty much anything.

YouTube
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

I won't defend child pornography, I'm just saying that at a certain point you either refuse to do anything or you accept that bad shit is always going to happen and you have to pick your moral battles. Boycott or not, but keep in mind it's a stone in an ocean.
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Old 2018-04-03, 10:52   Link #57
Key Board
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Nowadays, everyone realizes that diamonds are overpriced rocks

And people already make purchasing decision based on a company's policy towards sweatshops, animal cruelty, or gas emissions
These things aren't new. If enough people care about things, the merchant or industry will be forced to change.

That's what's happening with loot crates in video games.
That's what happened with MeToo and Hollywood
That's what's happening with Facebook.

So yes, even a customer's stance on things matter (sooner or later)
It might be a just a grain of sand now, but one day? who knows.

Last edited by Key Board; 2018-04-03 at 11:02.
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Old 2018-04-23, 07:20   Link #58
milan kyuubi
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Rurouni Kenshin: Hokkaido Arc Manga Resumes in June
Quote:
The announcement noted that Watsuki is living a life of reflection and atonement, but that Shueisha and Watsuki decided that continuing the manga to answer the desires of fans was a matter of duty.

At the time of the manga's hiatus, Shueisha commented that it is taking this news seriously, and that Watsuki expresses deep regret.
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Old 2018-04-23, 09:54   Link #59
sa547
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Unsurprisingly the activist on my Twitter flist has gone ballistic, like she wants him put behind bars and chemically castrated, as she calls for a boycott of all of his works.
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Old 2018-04-23, 13:19   Link #60
Key Board
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he had actual child porn
not drawn
not animated
actual 12 year old children

he had something the Yakuza made using indentured sex slaves

Yeah, of course people are drawing the line.
Of course they're being upset that he is getting a way with a slap on the wrist.
Will their rage matter? probably not. The continuation of Kenshin is more profitable to publishers.

Edit: think of it this way. There are Idols who get way more crap for having a boyfriend or girlfriend.
But actual child porn? I guess that's a lesser evil.

Last edited by Key Board; 2018-04-23 at 16:08.
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