2020-09-22, 20:17 | Link #41 | |
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2020-10-05, 10:49 | Link #44 | ||||
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Guy's are rarely good looking in anime for male otaku. They are mostly bland looking. Take Shinji from Evangelion. He's hardly a good catch in the looks department. If guys were generally good looking in anime, they wouldn't be so heavily ridiculed for being chick magnets. Quote:
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All because men and women are very different from each other. The same character traits a man finds attractive in a woman is something women find unattractive in men and vice-versa. Being strong is one of the traits that men find off-putting in women. To make strong female characters work for men, they also need to show weakness or it won't get past an attraction for their body. And if left at that, it will be constructed as sexualizing these characters. Not because these strong female characters are sexualized, but because men have trouble seeing past what they find visually attractive about the character. Show a man tear off his shirt and fighting demons and he is badass, show a woman tear off her shirt and fighting demons and she's sexualized for exposing her nipples.
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Last edited by 0cean; 2020-10-05 at 11:08. |
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2020-10-05, 12:03 | Link #45 |
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Amount of men that find strong women off-putting is completely negliable. Empirically speaking it really is not a thing. And showing weakness also isn't matter of gender. Any character has to show weakness at time to make them relatable. Weakness doesn't make anyone sexual object it makes them human.
Those rare individuals that don't like strong women, are simply ones compensating for own inferiority complexes. That's not case of large majority of anime fandom, creators or you know men in general.
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2020-10-07, 11:25 | Link #46 |
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I'd say it depends on the nature of the strength. If we're talking bulky, super-muscular women then there are some limits to popularity and honestly they're not that common due to it being somewhat more difficult for the female body to build muscle in that manner. On the other hand, capability in a fight or a willingness to stand up for oneself and those one cares about is indeed rarely seen as a bad trait.
But I'll admit, I can see why some authors may feel it "easier" to make a heroine than a hero, basically because it can be easier to draw weakness into them and have them be believable and endearing, when to some viewers similar weakness in men can get them labeled as wimps or cowards (just look at the crap people say about Shinji, despite the fact that a lot of his problems are what you'd kind of expect of someone who's basically forced to be a child soldier in an incredibly stressful environment). Might also be a big part of the reason that I find strong women in anime to be so much more believable and endearing than the modern Western take on a "strong female character": just like some authors may fear making a man seem too weak, in the West some seem to want to eliminate any and all weakness of any form from the heroines. You need a character to have weakness if you want them to feel strong. |
2020-10-07, 20:51 | Link #48 | ||
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2020-10-12, 20:04 | Link #50 | ||
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Last edited by BWTraveller; 2020-10-18 at 13:07. |
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2020-10-13, 21:10 | Link #51 | ||
formerly ogon bat
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or if you want to go really back in time: "A dude with a cape lifting a whole car over his head with just his arms? Who would buy such a comic?" |
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2020-10-18, 13:18 | Link #53 | |
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2020-10-18, 16:52 | Link #54 | ||
formerly ogon bat
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The simple truth is that so far there has been no comic, manga or similar which has really explored muscular women as protagonists, but that does not mean they would not be popular, not with deviantart, pixiv and the like thriving on said drawings. It might be niche, but so is BL and there have been plenty of series about that. i.e. I hear no backlash against Noi from Dorohedoro at all. Quote:
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2020-10-18, 22:14 | Link #55 | |
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And I brought up Supergirl because you were talking about Superman, in order to illustrate the difference between people's take on what a character is capable of and what a character looks like. To some extent, not complete or anything but to an extent, there is a tendency for some to find excessively muscular women in fiction to be dubious or off-putting, and I posit that it might be due to it being more difficult and less common for women to achieve that level of muscle mass; I simply indicated that this visual dissonance may play out differently than general believability, potentially resulting in the extremely unbelievable actions that frequently occur often being accepted even with characters who clearly couldn't possibly have such capabilities to a greater extent than characters with bodies that look like they may actually be able to pull such things off, or at least get closer to it. And no, "popular" is not simply a codeword for risk aversion, it's simply an assessment of what is and to what degree it is selling, and a desire to aim for what seems to be selling most. It's also a matter of what authors are more likely to create regardless of risk, as if a certain percentage of the people that enjoy a particular type of fiction have certain tastes, chances are that a similar percentage of authors in those fields, who are likely to also enjoy it, have similar tastes. Chances are that authors' tastes will impact how they write/draw their characters. Thus, it should not be surprising that a very large portion of authors write what is currently trending, as even those that don't care about "what will sell" are relatively likely to be interested in making stuff they like, which is likely to be what many others in their niche like. |
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2020-10-28, 11:00 | Link #57 | |
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This appeal translates to media like anime. So borderline retarded girls will be very popular waifus, while strong women like Revy won't. Even inside an anime like Black Lagoon, there might be some expectation for Rock and Revy to get together, but there is no anticipation for them to found a family and live a peaceful life. Strong women do not make good wife material. Can you imagine Integra from Hellsing as a wife? I can't. To make a good wife, a character needs to show a nurturing, a weak side. So there might be a lot of strong women in anime, but they won't be wife material unless they show weakness and the ability to be nurturing. And if they're not wife material, they're simply there to look sexy while doing a man's job. Like Kusanagi Motoko.
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2020-10-28, 12:42 | Link #58 |
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Of course noone would want marry freaking Revy That's less about her being strong and more about her being PSYCHOPATHIC KILLER, with temper of three years old. You shouldn't use outliers as standard.
But let's google some random polls MAL: 1st: Makise Kurisu, 2nd: Rem, 3rd: Mikasa Kono Light Novel: 1st: Kei Karuizawa, 2nd: Ginko Sora, 3rd: Misaka Binge: 1st:Mikasa, 2nd: Erza, 3rd: Hinata. Twitter: 1st: Jahad Endorsi, 2nd: Claes Katarina, 3rd Hayasaka Ai. As you can see it's just you who find strong women off-putting and you should stop projecting own biases on others.
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Last edited by Tenzen12; 2020-10-28 at 12:53. |
2020-10-29, 14:02 | Link #59 |
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Again I'd say it depends on the nature of the strength, as well as whether the weakness is made clear. For instance, Seras is crazy strong too but I imagine people are more open to the idea of her as "waifu material". Largely because she allows herself to show weakness and kindness while from what I've seen (though honestly I haven't seen much of Hellsing) Integra tends to be just plain hard. Frankly I don't think she'd make a good parent period. She makes a good boss when dealing with superpowered subordinates trying to stop the effective end of the world, but not a parent; in that it doesn't matter whether she's a woman or a man, I wouldn't want her to be a father either. Seras on the other hand shows struggles, weakness, a capacity for kindness and friendliness/affection, as well as some serious muscle and a capacity to completely grind anyone who threatens her family into a bloody paste.
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