Madoka Magica - Movie 3 Spoilers and Speculations

[AuraTwilight]

Also, Sayaka has a love for classical music in general. I'd rather think that said love is due to her own taste in music, and not purely due to the Kyousuke effect. If Sayaka becomes a fan of whatever Kyousuke happens to play then it makes it seem like her taste in music is purely due to him, which is not an interpretation I'm fond of.

In fairness, all our tastes are learned, and Sayaka's known Kyousuke since early childhood. The music we're exposed to in our formative years tend to shape our tastes even when the original motive for doing so becomes no longer relevant.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

In fairness, all our tastes are learned, and Sayaka's known Kyousuke since early childhood. The music we're exposed to in our formative years tend to shape our tastes even when the original motive for doing so becomes no longer relevant.

You sure about that? I mean, you're touching pretty heavily on the huge nature vs. nurture debate that's been raging in both psychology and biology for a long time now. You appear to be favoring "nurture" here since you say that all our tastes are shaped by what we're exposed to in our childhood (rather than our tastes being determined by, say, our genes).

I haven't read up much on this debate in awhile, but I don't recall it being settled so definitely. And if anything, what I have seen recently of that debate seems to suggest that more scientists favor nature now.


In any event, I respect that in your personal head-canon, Kyousuke is a guitarist in some timelines and in those timelines Sayaka is more into rock music than classical music. That's fine. But given that this isn't rooted in anything all that ironclad, I hope you'll excuse me if I decide to have a different head-canon.

[RobotCat]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

You sure about that? I mean, you're touching pretty heavily on the huge nature vs. nurture debate that's been raging in both psychology and biology for a long time now. You appear to be favoring "nurture" here since you say that all our tastes are shaped by what we're exposed to in our childhood (rather than our tastes being determined by, say, our genes).

I haven't read up much on this debate in awhile, but I don't recall it being settled so definitely. And if anything, what I have seen recently of that debate seems to suggest that more scientists favor nature now.


In any event, I respect that in your personal head-canon, Kyousuke is a guitarist in some timelines and in those timelines Sayaka is more into rock music than classical music. That's fine. But given that this isn't rooted in anything all that ironclad, I hope you'll excuse me if I decide to have a different head-canon.

But it doesn't really matter if she inherently likes classical or rock. If Kyousuke is a rock musician, she would be spending all her time finding rock songs for Kyousuke to listen to instead of classical. They'd spend their time together in the hospital listening to rock songs. Sayaka's labyrinth would also reflect that since it's supposed to represent her despair. In the deepest part of Sayaka's Labyrinth is Kyousuke with his violin (shown in episode 9). If Kyousuke was a guitarist, he'd be a guitarist instead, and the Labyrinth would be updated to reflect that. The design documents for timeline 3 Oktavia are here: http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Puella_M...line_3_Version Also note that in timeline 3 the concert hall has rave lights, spot lights, hitomi dancers, and a giant 4 directional projection screen, which definitely suggest a rock concert of sorts compared to a traditional classical orchestral hall.

[Kazu-kun]

^ Do I need to remind you guys not to read too much into this? Remember that Urobuchi doesn't usually include much description on setting and such. This is stuff the staff come up with on their own.

It doesn't surprise me that Sayaka's barrier is different in different timelines, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean anything at all. It's just the staff playing around for the lulz. Basically Shaft being Shaft.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by RobotCat

But it doesn't really matter if she inherently likes classical or rock.

Sure it matters. If she inherently likes classical, then why would she be attracted to a rock-star above all other musicians? It's not like classical music ceases to exist if Kyousuke chooses to be a guitar-player instead. Sayaka would simply go for what classical music there is if that happens.

But putting that aside, I find this idea even more weird for Kyousuke than I do Sayaka, for reasons I laid out a page or two back. A violinist and a rock-star are two pretty different things. The presentation styles of the two tend to be radically different.

Also note that in timeline 3 the concert hall has rave lights, spot lights, hitomi dancers, and a giant 4 directional projection screen, which definitely suggest a rock concert of sorts compared to a traditional classical orchestral hall.

Yeah, I'm with Kazu-kun on this. I think you and AuraTwilight are reading way too much into this.

Sure, I noticed that Octavia was different in Timeline 3. I just chalked it up to Sayaka's interactions with Hitomi somehow being different, hence causing the rise of dancing Hitomis. That was the main difference, after all.

[GDB]

And also, unless Hitomi somehow also randomly changed in personality, it'd be weird for such a fined ojou-sama to be interested in what would appear to be a hardcore rock guitarist. Refined ojou-sama liking classical violinist? Makes sense. Rock guitarist? Not so much.

[speedyexpress48]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Sure it matters. If she inherently likes classical, then why would she be attracted to a rock-star above all other musicians? It's not like classical music ceases to exist if Kyousuke chooses to be a guitar-player instead. Sayaka would simply go for what classical music there is if that happens.

But putting that aside, I find this idea even more weird for Kyousuke than I do Sayaka, for reasons I laid out a page or two back. A violinist and a rock-star are two pretty different things. The presentation styles of the two tend to be radically different.

If Sayaka liked rock, to be honest that wouldn't be very surprising at all. If Kyousuke liked rock...that would be pretty weird.

[AuraTwilight]

Yeah, I'm with Kazu-kun on this. I think you and AuraTwilight are reading way too much into this.

Sure, I noticed that Octavia was different in Timeline 3. I just chalked it up to Sayaka's interactions with Hitomi somehow being different, hence causing the rise of dancing Hitomis. That was the main difference, after all.

Then either way. The only reason I brought it up was to explain why the two incarnations of Homulilly were different.

And also, unless Hitomi somehow also randomly changed in personality, it'd be weird for such a fined ojou-sama to be interested in what would appear to be a hardcore rock guitarist. Refined ojou-sama liking classical violinist? Makes sense. Rock guitarist? Not so much.

Implying the only reason Sayaka and Hitomi like Kyousuke was his music.

Also I can totally see Hitomi being into his music for different reasons. "Well, mom and dad, he's fun and adventurous and you can't stop me from seeing him."

Kyousuke rides up on a motorcycle and they run off into the night while 80's music plays.

....why isn't someone writing a fanfic of guitarist Kyousuke timeline? What is wrong with this fandom?

[GDB]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Implying the only reason Sayaka and Hitomi like Kyousuke was his music.

Also I can totally see Hitomi being into his music for different reasons. "Well, mom and dad, he's fun and adventurous and you can't stop me from seeing him."

Well, his personality would likely be far different if he played rock guitar instead of classical violin. Even your first thought was a punk rocker on a motorcycle. Unlike Sayaka, Hitomi isn't his childhood friend. If she liked both versions of him, it would feel quite a bit like the only reason she liked him was because he was famous. Wouldn't necessarily mean that, but it would sure feel that way.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by speedyexpress48

If Sayaka liked rock, to be honest that wouldn't be very surprising at all. If Kyousuke liked rock...that would be pretty weird.

I don't doubt that Sayaka likes more music than just classical music, but that's the music she's most passionate about.

Anyway, like you said, this is more weird for Kyousuke than it is anything else. I have to admit that picturing Kyousuke as a rock-star is both very hard and funny.

[RobotCat]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Sure it matters. If she inherently likes classical, then why would she be attracted to a rock-star above all other musicians? It's not like classical music ceases to exist if Kyousuke chooses to be a guitar-player instead. Sayaka would simply go for what classical music there is if that happens.

It's not about what she likes, it's about her attraction to Kyousuke. Are you saying she ONLY likes Kyousuke because he's a genius classical violinist? It was pretty obvious from the anime that Kyousuke was the trigger for her to get into classical music. If Kyousuke was a guitarist, he would have triggered her to get into rock music (perhaps not even discovering her inherent love for classical, even if she had any). Even if she was still really into classical music, the fact that Kyousuke was a guitarist would still cause her Labyrinth to reflect her despair, and not things that make her happy.

But putting that aside, I find this idea even more weird for Kyousuke than I do Sayaka, for reasons I laid out a page or two back. A violinist and a rock-star are two pretty different things. The presentation styles of the two tend to be radically different.

It wouldn't very surprising. If Kyousuke was given a piano by his parents he'd probably be a piano genius instead. If his parents were slightly different and he picked up a guitar instead he'd have gone down that route. Little differences here and there can change the outcome drastically. Considering how proficient he is in Sayaka's flashback he probably started music when he was 4 or 5, which means at that point much of his future development would be based on which instrument he picked up.

Originally Posted by GDB

Well, his personality would likely be far different if he played rock guitar instead of classical violin. Even your first thought was a punk rocker on a motorcycle. Unlike Sayaka, Hitomi isn't his childhood friend. If she liked both versions of him, it would feel quite a bit like the only reason she liked him was because he was famous. Wouldn't necessarily mean that, but it would sure feel that way.

And there's really nothing to suggest that isn't the case. It'd seem pretty typical for a normal teenage girl, especially for one that's considered 'school idol' level. She didn't even visit him while he was in the hospital.

[MYWA]

Interesting. All this talk of timelines and when Kyosuke is or is not a violinist and how it's even possible for him to be anything other than a violinist raises the issue of just how Homura's time travel works. Kyosuke playing guitar in Timeline 3 seems to lend credence to the idea that rather than overwriting a singular timeline with every return, Homura traverses alternate realities, each with its own subtle differences from the other, so that what appears to be Homura going back in time is really Homura arriving at the "same" point in different realities/universes, thus tying together otherwise separate, parallel realities. In this case, Homura would be responsible for some of the changes that occur (her interventions w/ Madoka) while other differences (Kyosuke playing guitar instead of violin) may be the result of the intrinsic composition of a particular reality.

[Kazu-kun]

^ Don't read too much into it. Urobuchi himself said the mechanics of Homura's time travel were irrelevant to the story so he didn't bother coming up with any explanation.

[AuraTwilight]

Well, his personality would likely be far different if he played rock guitar instead of classical violin. Even your first thought was a punk rocker on a motorcycle.

I was being silly. :P If we're talking about assumptions, nothing really says he'd be doing rock and roll, per se. It being an electric guitar wasn't even a solid detail.

Unlike Sayaka, Hitomi isn't his childhood friend. If she liked both versions of him, it would feel quite a bit like the only reason she liked him was because he was famous. Wouldn't necessarily mean that, but it would sure feel that way.

Well, Hitomi has known Sayaka, and thus probably Kyousuke, since their earliest school days. Sayaka just knew him for longer. We have no idea how well Hitomi and Kyousuke actually know each other.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

We have no idea how well Hitomi and Kyousuke actually know each other.

Probably not that well, since if I'm not mistaken they still both refer to each other as Family_Name-san.

[MYWA]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

^ Urobuchi himself said the mechanics of Homura's time travel were irrelevant to the story so he didn't bother coming up with any explanation.

That...makes the most sense. In any case, whatever the timeline, one thing remains constant: whether he's a classical violinist or a blues-playing guitarist, Kyosuke sucks.

[AuraTwilight]

Probably not that well, since if I'm not mistaken they still both refer to each other as Family_Name-san.

Uh...Hitomi does that with her close friends too. It's pretty impolite to call people by their first names if they're not actual relations. That the Japanese youth of today relax that rule is an indication of a social shift that traditional people still aren't really entirely down with, yet.

[Homucifer]

I went to the premiere to see this beast and it was worth all the money but disappointingly all the stuff they had to buy sucked expect the poster of Godoka which I waited 4 1/2 hours in line to get.... that was fun.

I LOVED this movie and it makes me sad that I hear so many people complaining about the ending which I liked especially since we got to see a extremely hot Homura-chan :3.
And people say "she is out of character" Which makes no sense, she wants to save Madoka at ANY COST even if she has to turn into a demon etc.

And the ending I hope is setting up for another movie or better yet another season.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LBNuS41Q1A
A video I took of the shaft/aniplex guys talking

[HurricaneHige]

Got the Homura + Madoka board ^_^

Aside from that, there better be a 4th movie coming out, otherwise this has to be one of the most cynical, messed up ending I've seen.

[Homucifer]

Originally Posted by HurricaneHige

Got the Homura + Madoka board ^_^

Aside from that, there better be a 4th movie coming out, otherwise this has to be one of the most cynical, messed up ending I've seen.

I Wanted the Godoka board but got the Homura one so I sold it for 60$ on ebay and the rest of the stuff I got from the premiere, of course keeping