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View Poll Results: Spice and Wolf II - Episode 9 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 17 | 29.82% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 15 | 26.32% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 18 | 31.58% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 6 | 10.53% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 1 | 1.75% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll |
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2009-09-09, 21:31 | Link #121 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: United Kingdom
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Wasn't there a scene with him in bed with Chloe somewhere in the first or second episode of season 1? I'd also say that with him being a travelling merchant with a fair amount or wit (though lack of romantic skills), chances are he's not. Then again I could be completely and utterly wrong on both points!
I think there may actually have been something going on between him and Chloe (though not a relationship, more of a promiscuous fling) when he was at her village from time to time, but it's just a hunch. |
2009-09-09, 22:35 | Link #122 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
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2009-09-10, 04:36 | Link #123 | |||||||
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You can say but Australopithecus could do some things that I cannot, and I can do something that Australopithecus could not. But those things either can be taught and learned or comes in a natural way of evolution (like physical changes), which do not radically destroy the chain of continuity. The change that wolf-god experiences is too radical in both mind and body that wolf cannot learn through normal way of evolution or learning. It is not like a stone statue made from stone. If it was you could say the form changed but the material (stone) remains and posses the same qualities still (thus sucesion remains). Here you can only talk about a stone statue made from wax. And it makes no sense because wax do not posses the qualities of stone thus you cannot make from it a STONE statue. |
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2009-09-10, 14:55 | Link #124 | ||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2009-09-10, 16:01 | Link #125 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Lol, I was very determined to not join in, but something like this is so tempting Let me clarify your points, Anh Minh
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2: normal wolves do not posses those abilities. It's a fact. But it's unprovable that normal wolves do not possess the potential to acquire those abilities. 3: there may be no normal wolves in OtK in the first place. 4: I postulate it is not as radical as an infant in his mother womb growing into a Darknemo. Because it's evolution and wolf into wolf-god is not? Who tells you that? Back to point 2 and 3 |
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2009-09-11, 02:09 | Link #126 | |||||
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The reason has to be possible by a biological body function. Yet transforming body so ridiculously is not a biological body function. (because mass has to appear ex nihilo or go to nothing). Quote:
Or that if you by jumping from 30 store building would die. There is a possibility of everything in this world but these possibilities we do not consider realistically, because if you consider these possibilities natural events you would have to stop living with humans. And would deny not only the human laws (I stabbed him with a knife but there was a possbility of him melting the knife with is skin thus it is his fault for choosing not to do that and die or even better I did not kill him, it was a suicide, he stabbed 37 times himself into the back then cut his head off and then went and buried himself while I gathered utensils leaving fingerprints etc, etc) but natural laws as well. There is a line where a things have to be considered natural and breaking a chain of natural events despite the fact that there always is a possibility of happening in a different way, is unnatural. Just because Newton's law worked 137860098710 times does not mean it will work 137860098711 th time and so on and on, but then the whole socio would be destroyed be it ours or Lawrence's (the one that we see in anime). Quote:
If wolf turning into wolf-god would be normal then there is no way Horo transformation would be so shocking to him (and to others) because living this long nearside with humans such things would have been revealed. Now however such tings are considered just a legend despite merchants being attacked for a years by wolves. Quote:
Lets say what would surprise you more - a pregnant man or a man turning into a rat at your sight? Both are surprising but I would consider much more unnatural later than the first, because in the first case I still could blame medicine, but in the second case I cannot because while medicine can change our body appearance it cannot do that out of nothing. But it is obvious that body mass and some bones come out of nothing or go to noting while transforming. Quote:
While teens mind is different from child's succession of memory and mind remains. You can say that as a baby we do not think much, true, but functional wolf that can mate is 'thinking' much more than a human baby and posses quite a big amounts of memories, that gets complete wipe-out. Thats why I postulate it has to be unnatural. |
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2009-09-11, 16:25 | Link #127 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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The way you are arguing is making us go in circle. So I will try to ignore what you just posted and demonstrate a possibility among possibilities, the one that I used in my last post:
Spoiler for A possible scenario:
Now, the argument "god-wolf is not wolf" can only has some merit if: 1: Horo cannot give birth, or give birth to a god-wolf (which will grow up to be as big as Horo in a mere decade) or a human, after mating with a normal wolf; AND 2: Horo can give birth to a normal child or a god-wolf after mating with a human or a god wolf. If you want to point to discontinuity, it has to be not from a normal wolf grow up to be a god-wolf, but from a god-wolf to become a human Horo. Perhaps if Spiderman lost his memory yet gaining 100 IQ when he's bit by the spider, you would say he were dead that moment, and the superhero that look like him were a completely different entity (though the change in outer appearance is not as ridiculous, the change in mind and physical abilities are equally ridiculous yet within a much shorter time) Quote:
Do you notice how many time have you committed false dilemma? Last edited by Cinocard; 2009-09-11 at 16:44. |
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2009-09-12, 00:09 | Link #128 | |
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If Lawrence and all other merchants are unaware about god-wolf despite facing them often then that means that turning into a god-wolf is by no means a normal event and does not come in an natural way. It is an unnatural event which changes both mind and body. Lets say. You were a chimpanzee in the past but turned into a Human (lets say a mature level already) as you-chimpanzee aged. As a human you have no memories about the chimpanzee-past, you see shape similarities between you and chimpanzee and you can even communicate (with gestures/body language) but you still assume that it is a different being and not part of your family. You do not posses and memories or information about the chimpanzee you assume that you always were a human. It doesn't matter that you lost your memory due to old age - the key is that you lost it and do not have it and no one can tell you about it. Remember that Horo never even thinks or talks about her past as normal wolf. Only as a god-wolf in a god-wolf pack. Because she sees no continuity between herself and a normal wolf. Just like you see no continuity between yourself and chimpanzee. Whenever Horo talks about wolf she talks about herself as a wolf-god and her knowledge about how normal wolves act does not mean she was a normal wolf before - I too know how chimpanzee's act because they are very similar to human and what is different can still be learned through observation (specially if you live long) but it does not make me necessarily a chimpanzee. |
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2009-09-12, 00:52 | Link #129 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Like Horo, she may knows that she was once a wolf and grew up, but it's so vague she has nothing to say about it except that "I was once a normal wolf," and therefore she does not talk about it. Or she may have her pride in being a god-wolf, despite her origin was a normal wolf, so she does not talk about it. Or, as I said, god-wolf is rare, so once a god-wolf encounter another, they stick. After all, they can hang out as human together, and there's not really a point in wandering around a normal wolf pack. So they just travel together for hundreds of years. So, of course, her friends occupied her mind for hundred years, why should she talk about normal wolves? How often would you talk about your great grand father in a bars? Quote:
Spoiler for Fallacies:
You know, you have your own points, and I myself think that god-wolf should be a different specie from normal wolf. There are hints to it, but nothing absolutely deny the possibility other wise, so I simply accounted two other possibilities pages ago, but you must deny it with all your might, and this discussion happens. And now it's as if you must try to prove that my "claims" were wrong, even though I never made any claims. Why must you so? (though I know philosophical brawling is fun, and I welcome it ) As you seem to like Philosophy, let me remind that: Quote:
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2009-09-12, 07:37 | Link #130 | ||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2009-09-13, 15:54 | Link #131 | |||
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It is unclear how their memory works, but it is obvious that they do store past events in their brains. It may be not as good as elephant's but they do have it. Quote:
For me it looks like wolf-gods are completely different species from wolves. They are close enough to understand how thy think and able to communicate but are different species. Like humans and chimpanzees. Quote:
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2009-09-13, 16:33 | Link #132 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2009-09-13, 17:00 | Link #133 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
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There is also the other "immature" wolf god they run into, who seemed to be the alpha of a full pack of wolves. Maybe the more humans they consume the more god-like they get, and eventually gain intelligence and the ability to transform into humans as well? Who knows, it's a fantasy universe so fantasizing is permissible Of course, nothing so far has given any indication as to how Horo can literally vanish into or live inside of wheat, and volume 4 of the novels has her doing even more supernatural stuff. Well, that's it. Have fun rationalizing the story! |
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2009-09-13, 17:13 | Link #134 | ||
Converted Horoist =D
Join Date: Apr 2008
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2009-09-18, 04:37 | Link #135 | |
I'm on a boat!!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: California
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this was posted way back on the first few pages.. but it never got clarification, can anyone clarify what is in the 4th volume of the novels that would clarify lawrences hesitations with their relationship? thats kinda the main thing in the story and im wondering what us anime only watchers missed |
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2009-09-18, 10:54 | Link #136 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
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2009-09-18, 14:39 | Link #137 | |
I'm on a boat!!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: California
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im actually still watching season 1, but a friend was watching this episode and i watched bits and pieces its making me want to just sit down and plow through the series lol. sounds like a pretty important series of scenes, im surprised they skipped it. i almost never check out manga.. but hell i may give this one a look. Is it a bunch of novels or a manga series or what? and is there a spot to check out translations online? I at least want to read this 4th volume that was skipped |
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2009-09-18, 15:02 | Link #138 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I didn't really mean what Bash said, though. I'll post my thoughts in the novel thread. Edit: done. |
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2009-09-19, 13:34 | Link #139 |
I'm on a boat!!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: California
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Tnx guys. You know what i think i do want to check out these light novels. I usually dont read manga but i really am diggin this series and it sounds like they skip a pretty important character development arc! Im not really sure why they skipped this.
Since im not familiar with manga or manga translations, can anyone point me to the best place to read the translations of these online? Hell, what IS a light novel? is it just a compilation of a season of manga or something? hoefully not just what i consider a novel, an actual book with only text. |
2009-09-19, 13:51 | Link #140 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Virginia, USA
Age: 62
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