[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Wanderer]

Greyzone has already covered a lot of this (he posted while I was writing), but I'm just going to post it as is.

1.
Less than two years, actually. Yasu inherited her legacy on Nov 29, 1984. The final conference was on October 5, 1986.

It's hard to tell how many servants are in rotation. The trickiest part to me would be Shannon managing to attend school consistently, which is why I think Kanon probably was not around very much.

2.
Yeah, that's a good point. Explanations are possible, but... would just be made up, really. Again, I doubt Kanon was even around much.

3.
I disagree. For the characters on the boards, the flow of events in each of the individual stories is never really suggestive that Kanon and Shannon are the same person.

4.
Many of us on this forum don't think Yasu is the true culprit, but rather that she vilified herself in her stories for some other reason. It's a longstanding topic of debate.

5.
Yes, many of us doubted ShKanon for a long time in the face of all the clues because we thought it was just too ridiculous.

6.
lawl Ryukishi sprites.

7.
Well, Ryukishi seems to think that his answer is deeper than that. He's said in his interviews that he wrote Umineko with the intent that the answer couldn't just be meme-like copy-pasted; he didn't want anyone to be able to know the answer without reading the whole story. Even Ryukishi's choice of "Yasu" as the character's name is related to this issue:

Spoiler for The Case of the Portopia Serial Killer:

In this old school Japanese PC/NES adventure game, the titular killer turns out to be Yasuhiko "Yasu" Mano, who is not only the main character's partner but also the single most unlikely suspect as he is with you throughout the entire game, executing the commands of the unseen protagonist. The shock factor was so high that nowadays the phrase "Yasu is the culprit" is something of a meme amongst old fans.

There are people who do fully subscribe to Yasu being the true culprit of "Prime", but also quite a few who don't, including myself.

[Drifloon]

The trickiest part to me would be Shannon managing to attend school consistently, which is why I think Kanon probably was not around very much.

Actually, I don't think Yasu is even attending school any more by the point that Kanon gets introduced. The guys in that tumblr blog brought up something about this:

I’ve always assumed that Yasu stopped going to school after middle school. Yes, most Japanese kids finish high school, but technically, only middle school is compulsory. This would explain Kanon’s reaction later on when he attends the festival at Jessica’s school.

And it seems to make sense to me. I'm pretty sure they never make any mention of Shannon or Kanon having to go to school during the present day, and it doesn't seem like the stake-maids (who I assume are about the same age?) have to go either, so...

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by HoroBoro

1. Hide voice/secondary sexual characteristics for 3 years from Jessica, Natsumi and Krauss too? Also, hasn't anyone noticed during the conferences at 84 and 85 - hey, when Kannon is here, Shannon is not...

Ryukishi confirmed Shannon has no breasts. Not all the Ushiromiya servants are on the island at the time of the conference so it's possible in the previous conference it was said that let's say only Kanon was present (the relatives seem to know Kanon so he was around previously).
It's true that EP 7 says Kanon was 'created' 3 years prior to 1986 but we don't know if Yasu began to impersonate him by then or previously he was just a fragment of her imagination (back then she didn't know she was the heir) and only when she became the heir she used her authority over Genji and Co to make him 'real'. Alternatively it could be that Kanon was turned 'real' with the complicity of Krauss and Natsuhi.
Shannon was asked to play the role of a second servant so as to create an extra witness of Kinzo's being alive without involving any further person.
Jessica, who's not always on the island, could have been introduced to 'him' by someone she believed and so have no reason to suspect he's Shannon in disguise.

Anyway, as long as Shannon has enough accomplices, to give life to Kanon isn't that troublesome as it requires to play the part only here and there.

Originally Posted by HoroBoro

2. While planning to hide Kinzo's body... Did Genji just say - "Yea - I'll let Kanon know not to tell everyone too." And how did that even fly with Krauss and Natsumi?

That sentence might be a mere fantasy like Natsuhi chatting with Kinzo later on.

Originally Posted by HoroBoro

3. When the heads start rolling, how is it that no one (though everyone and their mom suspects the servants) notice that Kanon and Shannon are never at the same place, when it's very important that everyone is accounted for at the same place?

As someone said because either Shannon or Kanon's head is usually one of the first to roll. Also they have accomplices who'll cover up for them and that usually includes all the servants and at least one couple of adults. In Ep 5 it was basically everyone minus Natsuhi and Erika. And Erika doesn't pay attention to the servants because 'A servant can't be the culprit' and pinning the blame on Natsuhi is something that would please Bern more.

Originally Posted by HoroBoro

4. How does killing the other love of your life (or if Battler enters the equation, a third love of your life) allow you to find love and live a normal life? Wouldn't that get to you? I mean... Shannon contemplated for years because of Battler's indiscretion, but killing Jessica who whole heartily loves you as a potential girlfriend/friend would not affect her in the slightest? Maybe she didn't think that far ahead, but Shannon seems quite the planner if she's Skannontrice.

My explanation is that all the episodes are nothing else but tales she wrote, possibly scenaries for a game she planned to play with Battler and that, at best, she only planned to kill herself in Prime only something went wrong (Ryukishi implied that the adults likely messed up) and we had the Rokkenjima tragedy.

However you've to consider that Yasu is not female (Ryukishi had recently strongly implied she was originally male) but, due to the incident lacks male parts also. And from the dialogues of Beato a strong side of her seems to believe Jessica and George wants her for sex and the babies.
As she likely has no male organs she can't really give this to Jessica and has she likely has no t the ability to make a baby she can't give heirs to George either.
Of course if she were to tell them the truth they could accept her just the same but I guess she's scared about it.

Ryukishi somewhere implied that her situation pushed her to madness and to believe that a love suicide would be the perfect solution. If a side of her really believed that, once everyone was dead, they'll all be happy, killing them wouldn't seem so bad.

I still prefer to think that's the motive for the Yasu of the gameboard and that Prime Yasu didn't think so but you can apply it to her as well.

Originally Posted by HoroBoro

5. Yes the servant name thing, but when it was first brought up, I thought it was to mislead (~story 1-3). But then I thought it couldn't be to mislead because, it wouldn't make sense if Kanon was Shannon once I learned more about the background and all the complex and wonderful shipping. And now, to find out that, yes Kanon is Shannon again... With all this other stuff not resolved... Kinda makes me unsatisfied.

You aren't the only one who's unsatisfied by the ShKanon solution. Sadly that one is the solution so there's not much else to do. If you create another on your own you're just creating an AU, not solving Umineko.

Originally Posted by HoroBoro

6. Perhaps clutching at straws here, but Kanon has black hair. Shannon has brown hair.

Yes, the stuff about the different hair colour is annoying as hell but as hair colour isn't trustworthy in Umineko (as many characters should have dyed their hair to get such hair colours) maybe you aren't supposed to take it seriously.

Originally Posted by HoroBoro

7. Perhaps even more vapid: "The servant is crazy and kills everyone" is just a bit lacking in class.

In Ryukishi's plans it's more: the illegitimate, incestuous son of Kinzo, who lost his mother early, wasn't recognized at first by his father, was rejected and tossed down of a cliff by his stepmother, lost his sexual organs and was turned into someone from the opposite sex and with no good health in his first years of life by the fall, was placed in a orphanage and then turned into a servant to a very early age, grew up introverted, relied too much on an imaginary world and failed to feel loved, had his first love turning out into an apparent fail, discovered all the truth about himself as well as the fact his father might have forced himself upon his mother and that the servants feared he might do the same to him, saw said father die, realized his relation with George would have serious problems as he actually wasn't the girl George dreamed would give him many babies and decided 'what's enough is enough' and snapped.

As far as I'm involved this one, more than not classy, seems a bit absurd as, with the aim to make Yasu's situation as dramatic as possible it piles up on him tons of stuffs some of which look hardly believable or seem the result of people acting in a completely irrational way but yes, when you think he went through all this, he might have snapped in the end.

Originally Posted by Drifloon

Actually, I don't think Yasu is even attending school any more by the point that Kanon gets introduced. The guys in that tumblr blog brought up something about this:

I’ve always assumed that Yasu stopped going to school after middle school. Yes, most Japanese kids finish high school, but technically, only middle school is compulsory. This would explain Kanon’s reaction later on when he attends the festival at Jessica’s school.

And it seems to make sense to me. I'm pretty sure they never make any mention of Shannon or Kanon having to go to school during the present day, and it doesn't seem like the stake-maids (who I assume are about the same age?) have to go either, so...

Eva however pointed out something about the Ushiromiya allowing Shannon to get school education which should imply she went further than compulsory school...

[Renall]

Here is the actual text reference on that point:

Spoiler for Episode 7:

"......By the way, just who is this? Who chose this kid to be a servant?"

The older servant pointed at me and asked the room at large, a dubious look on her face.

It's no surprise, really. Most of us become servants when we graduate middle school or high school. But I'm just starting elementary school.

The others will be working as servants every day, according to their shifts. However, I was going to go to the elementary school on Niijima with Milady, only working on the weekends and when I had free time.

It was an exception among exceptions, something that had never happened before.

Spoiler for Episode 7, Natsuhi:

"Why would we accept a child who hadn't even started school? No knowledge of housework, no practical experience, and not even finished with mandatory education. I don't know what Father was thinking, but I always thought there was something clearly odd about it."

Spoiler for Episode 7, Krauss:

"I spoke to Father about it. I asked if it might be better to wait for this servant to graduate middle school before having them serve here."

So it seems that servants generally quit at the end of middle school. Note however:

Spoiler for Episode 7, Yasu (1980):

Once I quit work here, ......I'll return to the Fukuin House. I have my wages for serving the family, so I should have more than enough to travel to Battler-san's house to play.

And when I graduate from school, I can rent an apartment near to Battler-san's house.

This is the last mention of Yasu going to school anywhere in Umineko that I'm aware of (in fact, a ctrl+f search of the script reveals the next mention of "school" is Maria talking about how boring it is with Beatrice and then the child soldier dialogue in ep8). In 1980 she would not have been in high school yet (legally, she'd be 10).

One must assume that if Yasu were actually still in school after 1984, then (1) Yasu would've probably have been assigned some kind of role at the school festival that prevented her from attending as Kanon, (2) people would have recognized "Kanon," since one presumes Shannon does not wear wigs or whatever to school.

However the problem with this is that presumably Jessica and Yasu went to elementary/middle school with the same group of girls, so how did nobody recognize her?

[Drifloon]

However the problem with this is that presumably Jessica and Yasu went to elementary/middle school with the same group of girls, so how did nobody recognize her?

Well, Jessica and Yasu wouldn't even have been in the same year, would they? I doubt anyone would have recognised someone from a different class several years later, especially if she was dressed as a boy and they had no reason to expect to recognise her.

Not to mention that Yasu was presumably really shy and quiet at school, so she probably wouldn't have made much of an impression on anyone in the first place.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by Renall

One must assume that if Yasu were actually still in school after 1984, then (1) Yasu would've probably have been assigned some kind of role at the school festival that prevented her from attending as Kanon, (2) people would have recognized "Kanon," since one presumes Shannon does not wear wigs or whatever to school.

However the problem with this is that presumably Jessica and Yasu went to elementary/middle school with the same group of girls, so how did nobody recognize her?

Well, I'm not that sure about it but couldn't she have said she would have to work that day and skip the school festival? Or called in sick?
Besides... nobody ever recognized her, not even Battler or 'perfect eyesight and amazing powers of observation' Erika.

She's like Superman. Lois sees him up close in the movie and yet it never dawn on her that HEY this guy looks exactly one of my coworkers.

Personally is one of the things that annoyed me the most about ShKannon.
One would expect to get a mention about how Shannon and Kanon resemble each other EXPECIALLY since Shannon takes care to mention they aren't related yet no one ever says it.

Usually, as far as anime, manga and whatever else go, this would mean they actually don't look like each other even if they're drawn exactly with the same face and the only difference is in the hair and clothes but Umineko happily overlooked this issue.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by Drifloon

Not to mention that Yasu was presumably really shy and quiet at school, so she probably wouldn't have made much of an impression on anyone in the first place.

She does say that she eventually felt comfortable in school, but doesn't elaborate on what that means.

Although if she's 2-3 years off from Jessica, what happens when Jessica transitions schools? At some point, Jessica will be in middle school but Yasu won't be.

[Wanderer]

Depending on birthdays, the grade difference for Yasu and Jessica ranges from 1 grade to 3. And depending on Yasu's legal (fake) birthday, she either graduated from middle school in March 1985 or 1986. If she did it in 1985 and didn't advance to high school, then there would be little overlap between her going to school and her role-playing Kanon.

A little research on Niijima and its schools:

Currently (30 years ago may have been different) there are about 2700 people living on the island. There are separate elementary, middle, and high schools. Each grade seems to have about 20-30 students. The middle and high schools are next door to each other, and the elementary school isn't very far, either- about 600-700 meters away.

[Renall]

That just makes it seem way less likely that she could get away with something like that. My high school had about 500 students in it and I still knew just about everybody. Hell, that's small enough that each grade is practically one classroom. Even if Yasu wasn't in school, she'd still probably be remembered as "that girl who works for Jessica who used to be in school with us."

People must've seriously never paid any attention to her.

[Wanderer]

Sure, it's impossible for Shannon/Yasu to be completely forgotten at school. But, what, are you saying it's impossible that none of the kids saw through her Kanon disguise because of that? Honestly, if it's already given that Yasu could fool Jessica and the other Ushiromiyas, then the kids at school aren't much of a hand-wave at all.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

Sure, it's impossible for Shannon/Yasu to be completely forgotten at school. But, what, are you saying it's impossible that none of the kids saw through her Kanon disguise because of that? Honestly, if it's already given that Yasu could fool Jessica and the other Ushiromiyas, then the kids at school aren't much of a hand-wave at all.

Well, it depends a lot on whether she actually did fool Jessica and the family, doesn't it?

Besides, it would still strike me as extremely risky on Yasu's part. Kanon was already reluctant to go, but agreeing to do it just seems like a huge risk for no identifiable benefit. The last thing she needs is somebody who is a little too perceptive noticing her, and she has to assume the people who will be present at the school are going to be people who have seen her in the past.

It's a weird risk and is easier to explain if Kanon's actual existence is very judiciously utilized. But since we seem to have effective confirmation that someone appeared at the school festival with Jessica, it's hard to just handwave the scene away. If Kanon was living a regular, regulated existence, this just seems like a needless risk. If Kanon barely exists at all, it's easier to get away with... but then it becomes nearly impossible to believe Jessica wouldn't know.

[Drifloon]

Taking needless risks is hardly out of character, but it seems to me like you're overstating the risk anyway. Maybe I'm just completely wrong on this, but I wouldn't have thought people would tend to remember anyone from outside their own year at all unless they had a particular reason to. And presumably Jessica would mostly be interacting with people in her own year, who would never have been in the same class as Yasu. Even if they did remember her, I wouldn't have thought they'd have seen her nearly enough to actually recognise her on sight (in a disguise, in a situation where they wouldn't expect to see her at all). I mean, I could be reading my own introversion on to other people here, but it seems pretty bizarre to think that most people would be able to keep hundreds of random students' faces in their mind and recall them at any instant despite barely interacting with most of them.

[Kiltias]

Originally Posted by HoroBoro

Hello good people. I've come here in search of something to un-muck my mind. So after reading the translated transcript of "Answers to the Golden Witch" I guess it's set in stone by the voice of god that Kannon = Shannon.

This does not sit right with me, as:

1. I hate to see Kannon reduced to a personality.
2. How does one pretend to be two people to at least 7+ people for years on end?
3. KaNNON ShaNNON... I mean... Come on... Right?

As well as a number of other concerns that I have which I'm too mind-screwed to find and list right now.

So what I'm seeking is:

1. Comfort that, neigh, perhaps even proof that Ryukishi07 was high during the interview or the translation leaves room for interpretation.
2. Barring that, Skannon!=Beatrice.
3. Barring that, a good psychiatrist in the west bay area that has read Umineko.

For me it's all another way of hiding Rosa, I mean hell, it's stated Kinzo is the one who gives his children weird names and that Maria isn't her original name.
Kinzo was the one who named her it was changed to Maria by Rosa which made Kinzo furious cause "What Kinzo wanted the most, lodges most thickly within you"

Whole thing with Kinzo is that we know he is majorly into foreign languages and the names are important in Umineko.
More need to see that cause there is no way we're talking about a coincidence that for example Rudolf refers to Wolf (Which he freaking is),Rosa to Rose and Horse, Eva to Life/Alive, and Krauss to Victory (While Rosa mentioned Eva MUST declare Victory but she feared "Brother".)

For example, Maria was obsessed of healing the sick Rose, the sole Rose that was sick among the others, again, Roses stand for Love.

See the parallel to Ange and Eva.
Ange had a broken bond with Eva.
Maria had a broken bond with Rosa.

Eva was possessed by a Black Witch
Rosa was possessed by a Black Witch.

The Black Witch can be defeated with Marias magic cause it's the magic of happiness.
Black Witch = Pain and Sadness pushed from one to another.

Alliance with Maria gave Beatrice her Endless Power.
Ange said learning Marias magic would have fixed the bond with Eva.

Rosa believed in Magic when she was young to the point of wanting to be a Witch.
Alliance with Maria returned Beatrices Magic Power which had declined.

Goddammit, you even have Rosa and Eva argueing about the Gold, the former believing Eva is gonna monopolize the gold but giving her respects to the next head followed right away with an Illusionary scene of Evatrice going all "THE GOLD IS ALL MINE!!!!" and the succession ceremony of Beatrice confirming her as Successor, that Illusion goes way more into Rosas line of thought than Yasu.

But yeah, as usual, this all means nothing but then again, people even believe Yasu killed Rosa and Maria when it's clear as day that it was Rudolf cause everything has to be Yasu, it's downright ridiculous to think someone else could have comitted any murder.

[Renall]

Kinzo couldn't have known the plot significance of names assigned 50 years before any plot events would relate back to them. I suspect you're overthinking it, or else it's just the author enforcing the symbolism, not one of the characters.

I can't really believe Kinzo had any idea that giving his children particular names would in any way influence their later behavior.

Originally Posted by Drifloon

I mean, I could be reading my own introversion on to other people here, but it seems pretty bizarre to think that most people would be able to keep hundreds of random students' faces in their mind and recall them at any instant despite barely interacting with most of them.

Well the thing is, according to Wanderer at least, there aren't "hundreds of random students," but like... one hundred. Some of whom may have just been in school with Yasu as little as a year ago. Perhaps Ryukishi didn't take that into account, but I have to think he'd at least visited Niijima at some point for reference. He'd know it's not a metropolitan high school.

And again I'd point out that Yasu didn't say she never fit in at school or that she had no friends there. She just made a brief statement about not feeling comfortable at first, and then the whole thing never really got brought up again.

Basically she either has to have been paid no attention by anybody and had no close friends whatsoever (not strictly textually supported, but plausible given that she's "best friends" with Jessica and they don't even act like friends), or the disguise as "Kanon" was substantially different from her regular appearance, or she got incredibly lucky that none of the first-years recognized her, or everyone in this story is goddamn blind.

Were I to be cynical, I'd say Ryukishi just assumed that Yasu had no friends and saw no reason to outright state as such, given that he doesn't seem to adequately understand the implications of Jessica and Shannon being friends for most of their lives but barely acting like it at any point ever in the actual story. I'd question how well he understands any relationships at all.

[GuestSpeaker]

Being that Yasu was likely initially male, I assumed that Yasu began roleplaying Kanon in real life as a way to deal with sexual urges for women that she didn't understand (or some such).

From reading stupid goats, it seems likely Shannon didn't really know her body was abnormal until she solved the epitaph (possible, this is someone who has never been intimate with someone, you can turn a boy into a girl pretty successfully and it wasn't even the age of internet porn yet). I can only assume that Yasu with her rich fantasy life began dressing like Kanon to explore a part of her she didn't understand, and then when she knew the truth A) developed a furniture complex and B) began living as Kanon a lot more. Sometimes children who learn about gender reassignment performed on them do begin living as the other sex, but Yasu obviously had a lot tied up in Shannon too.

Also as an aside, I think that the goat blog is a bit harsh on kyrie. At some point they mentioned how she told Rosa that you can't pick which kind of child is born "with a pained look on her face". They interpreted this to mean that she hates Ange, meanwhile I see it retrospectively as a woman reflecting on having a stillbirth (while her romantic rival also snagged her man). Without love hey?

[Renall]

Originally Posted by GuestSpeaker

Also as an aside, I think that the goat blog is a bit harsh on kyrie. At some point they mentioned how she told Rosa that you can't pick which kind of child is born "with a pained look on her face". They interpreted this to mean that she hates Ange, meanwhile I see it retrospectively as a woman reflecting on having a stillbirth (while her romantic rival also snagged her man). Without love hey?

We noticed the same thing. I think they try very hard to read meaning into everything, but this one is especially bizarre because the only evidence we have ever for Kyrie not loving Ange is the things she says to Eva about her, and it's blatantly obvious what she's doing in that scene.

If anything, it's entirely obvious that Kyrie must love Ange, because Ange is the anchor that finally won Rudolf once and for all. Just because Asumu died doesn't necessarily mean Rudolf would've married Kyrie. But with Ange on the way, he pretty much had no choice. I can't imagine why she would resent Ange for that... nor does the text in any way suggest it.

Also... Ange was sick. Maybe Kyrie was just upset about Ange being so sickly? Ange does mention she was like that as a kid. Kyrie might've just been thinking about Ange, stuck at home with her father looking after her, worrying about her. You know, like a mother would. Thinking about her stillbirth would also explain her situation. How you get from that to "doesn't love Ange" is pretty crazy.

Basically, take their analysis very carefully and draw your own conclusions. The blog is very Yasu-centric, very apologetic of his/her behavior, and a bit rough on people who honestly could not have known better. It also seems to randomly dole out responsibility on people for things that they might not have even done or suggest "hints" at their mental state which are not terribly well-supported. This is a good example of it.

[Drifloon]

Yeah, that thing about Ange struck me too. They seem to have some weird ideas about the EP7 tea party, since they repeatedly talk about Kyrie as if she's confirmed to be the real culprit or something. It's pretty odd, I honestly don't know where they'd get that impression since EP8 goes out of its way to make it clear that the EP7 tea party wasn't the truth. Their analysis brings up a lot of interesting points in general, but yeah, it's far from perfect.

Were I to be cynical, I'd say Ryukishi just assumed that Yasu had no friends and saw no reason to outright state as such, given that he doesn't seem to adequately understand the implications of Jessica and Shannon being friends for most of their lives but barely acting like it at any point ever in the actual story. I'd question how well he understands any relationships at all.

I'd have thought that was basically a given, really. If Yasu had had any meaningful relationship with anyone in school, it would have come up in EP7, right? It's made pretty clear that the only time she ever had a chance to socalize was when the cousins came to the island.

And could you elaborate on what exactly is unrealistic about Jessica and Shannon's relationship? It's never struck me as odd...Obviously they can't act like friends in the presence of the family because of the gap in status, but they seemed perfectly friendly at the times you'd expect them to be.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by Drifloon

I'd have thought that was basically a given, really. If Yasu had had any meaningful relationship with anyone in school, it would have come up in EP7, right? It's made pretty clear that the only time she ever had a chance to socalize was when the cousins came to the island.

But the same logic could be applied to her motive to commit the crime. The mere fact that she doesn't say anything about it doesn't mean we should just assume it's true. I think, however, that Ryukishi does assume that she wouldn't have any friends.

I don't see why she wouldn't, though. What was wrong with her at that age? Certainly it's an unusual situation but there's nothing to suggest she acts weird (like Maria) or is unusually sullen and disliked (like Ange) or a dorky creeper (like George). And apparently as Lion she's incredibly popular! It's a weird disconnect. It's making her unpopular and ignored largely because that's what you expect out of her character. At least the other servants have reasons to behave like huge bitches (it's competitive, Yasu's getting special treatment, etc.).

Originally Posted by Drifloon

And could you elaborate on what exactly is unrealistic about Jessica and Shannon's relationship? It's never struck me as odd...Obviously they can't act like friends in the presence of the family because of the gap in status, but they seemed perfectly friendly at the times you'd expect them to be.

Shannon is basically the only girl even close to her age that Jessica supposedly has known for a long period of time, and the one she would presumably spend the most time around. Ignore whether Yasu isn't social. Jessica is social, goes to school with Shannon/Yasu, and desperately wants to do stuff away from the island... but never suggests that the two of them hang out, or go to lunch, or even maybe try to con Natsuhi into letting them go anywhere (on the basis that hey, Shannon will be with me)? If this sort of thing ever happened, we never hear about it. I'd think Jessica would've at least tried this once, and I can't see any reason why Shannon would refuse.

Meeting Jessica as Kanon though, it's like Yasu has never even really thought much about Jessica's personality and positive traits before. Somehow, she has managed to live with this person for almost a decade and is only now seeing this side of her? It's not like Kanon is discovering some particularly deep side of Jessica either; he's falling for her earnestness and enthusiasm and outgoing interest in him. These are all things you'd think Yasu would already know about.

And Jessica freaks way more out over Kanon's deaths in the stories than she does about Shannon. I get she has a crush on Kanon, but Shannon is the closest thing Jessica has to a sister. A sister who apparently knows nothing about her.

Basically to me it makes Yasu come off as sort of a self-centered prick prior to "meeting" Jessica as Kanon. Which... I'm pretty sure is not at all what we're supposed to take away from that, so I think it's an oversight and not a personality flaw on Yasu's part.

[AuraTwilight]

I don't see why she wouldn't, though. What was wrong with her at that age? Certainly it's an unusual situation but there's nothing to suggest she acts weird (like Maria) or is unusually sullen and disliked (like Ange) or a dorky creeper (like George). And apparently as Lion she's incredibly popular! It's a weird disconnect. It's making her unpopular and ignored largely because that's what you expect out of her character. At least the other servants have reasons to behave like huge bitches (it's competitive, Yasu's getting special treatment, etc.).

Since you mentioned the other servants; they went to the same school and seem more outgoing than she is. Maybe they got together and basically conspired to make Yasu unpopular at school? Shit like that happens homeslice.

[Drifloon]

I don't see why she wouldn't, though. What was wrong with her at that age? Certainly it's an unusual situation but there's nothing to suggest she acts weird (like Maria) or is unusually sullen and disliked (like Ange) or a dorky creeper (like George). And apparently as Lion she's incredibly popular! It's a weird disconnect. It's making her unpopular and ignored largely because that's what you expect out of her character. At least the other servants have reasons to behave like huge bitches (it's competitive, Yasu's getting special treatment, etc.).

Well, remember that she spends her time on Rokkenjima being constantly mocked and insulted by the other servants (for understandable reasons, as you say) which would certainly damage her self-confidence. She's also constantly expected to perform jobs that the other servants are obviously much better at, which would make her feel inadequate and useless, leading to a significant inferiority complex. Given that, it seems reasonable that she'd turn in on herself and tend not to try and initiate social interaction due to fear of negative evaluation. In Lion's world she would never have had to go through any of that, and would even be looked up to as the successor to the headship, so it's no surprise that she'd be much more confident and outgoing in such a world.

Shannon is basically the only girl even close to her age that Jessica supposedly has known for a long period of time, and the one she would presumably spend the most time around. Ignore whether Yasu isn't social. Jessica is social, goes to school with Shannon/Yasu, and desperately wants to do stuff away from the island... but never suggests that the two of them hang out, or go to lunch, or even maybe try to con Natsuhi into letting them go anywhere (on the basis that hey, Shannon will be with me)? If this sort of thing ever happened, we never hear about it. I'd think Jessica would've at least tried this once, and I can't see any reason why Shannon would refuse.

Well, sure, it wouldn't be strange if Jessica tried something like that, but it's not exactly strange that she wouldn't either. It's hardly fair to criticise Ryukishi for not thinking of the exact same kind of interaction that you are. I'm pretty dubious as to whether Natsuhi would actually allow that in any case; she seems pretty protective of Jessica and I can't imagine her trusting Shannon to look after her.

Also...are you sure about that first line, that Shannon's the only girl Jessica's known for a long time? I got the impression that Jessica was pretty popular at school, so she probably has a lot of other friends besides Shannon.

Meeting Jessica as Kanon though, it's like Yasu has never even really thought much about Jessica's personality and positive traits before. Somehow, she has managed to live with this person for almost a decade and is only now seeing this side of her? It's not like Kanon is discovering some particularly deep side of Jessica either; he's falling for her earnestness and enthusiasm and outgoing interest in him. These are all things you'd think Yasu would already know about.

Can we really take that stuff at face value though? Remember that he had to write all that while maintaining the illusion that Kanon is a separate person to Shannon, so it's not like he could explicitly take Shannon's knowledge of Jessica into account when describing Kanon's thoughts at that time. Also, while Yasu may well have been aware of said qualities, she might not have realised the depth of her admiration for them until the Kanon incident triggered her to start analysing her feelings from a romantic standpoint.

And Jessica freaks way more out over Kanon's deaths in the stories than she does about Shannon. I get she has a crush on Kanon, but Shannon is the closest thing Jessica has to a sister. A sister who apparently knows nothing about her.

To be fair, people tend to react kind of weirdly to the deaths in general. Writing realistic reactions to stuff like that doesn't seem to be Ryukishi's strong point. But I can sort of see why he never really explored people's reactions to the deaths too much, because if you really went into all the complex emotions that would be triggered for each of the survivors facing the death of each of the six victims of the first twilight, you'd probably end up writing chapters' worth of text about it. Everyone would be a total mess for days afterwards if anything like that happened in real life; the way that they seem to quickly get over their mourning and get back to calmly discussing safety measures and locked rooms is just kind of something we have to accept for the sake of story pacing. There should probably have been a line or two about Jessica feeling sad about Shannon for her own sake and not just for George's in EP1 (pretty sure that's the only time she's even around for Shannon's death, right?) but hey, Ryukishi isn't perfect.