[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Joneleth]

Originally Posted by Ssol

I don't trust the end credits. It obviously lied when it said Kinzo died on the fourth twilight in episode 1.

True, however nothing showed Ange dying in 98 and suddenly they tell us she's dead.
While we are actually led to believe Kinzo was alive until the 4th twilight of that game.

But it didn't state when in 98 she died

That's true.

It might also be a new Ange, from post Episode 5.

[Dlanor A. Knox]

hmmm... wonder what Ange will do now Battler will be the Game Master....

[Joneleth]

She will screw the rules because she has money.

[Workworkwork]

There's always the tried-and-true "The tragic memories of Ushiromiya Anges' died" meaning that she has amnesia.

[chounokoe]

Originally Posted by Ssol

Only two more weeks to go

The screenshots from episode 6 show Ange alive in 1998 so either we are getting a new 1998 world or a continuation of the 1998 world from episode 3's story line. I think the later would be more interesting but it would raise a lot of questions.

I don't trust the end credits. It obviously lied when it said Kinzo died on the fourth twilight in episode 1.

Well on that matter it is still not fully discussed what it means to become a 'twilight' or 晩. Kinzo is not the only one whose death was moved around a bit...so either the death and becoming a twilight does not have to be in parallel order (that would be the magic explanation) or the person does not care for a ritual and just bets on people not knowing which person died when.

We also had the messed up order of twilights in the deaths of George, Shannon and Gohda in Episode 2. Shannon died as the 4th twilight, Gohda as the 5th and George as the 6th...
So either we saw a wrong representation or the order was of no concern to the killer from the beginning...we just know, something is odd.

[Joneleth]

I posted this on OT-kun's Tea party but I might as well post it here :

I have an idea of how to screw up Red truth :

This is based on Battler's assumption that Kinzo is a title name, Kanon and my own name. :P

See my full first name is Jean-Philippe Serge Hervé. (if you have a more stupid name than me, congrats. :P )
Now Jean-Philippe is the name my mom gave me cause it's the true name of Johnny Haliday. (some French rock star whatever )
However the other 2 come from my 2 uncles Serge and Hervé.

Now Kinzo refused to repeat in red that no one on the island shared the same name.

So I was thinking ok maybe Kanon's true name is the same as someone like George for example. If you say George is dead in red while talking about Kanon, George could still be alive and killing.

But using my uncles example, as long as we don't know the full name of everyone, we can expand that theory.

Example : Let's stay with George, his full name might be George Krauss Rudolf.
So if George dies, you could say in red George is dead. But also Krauss is dead or Rudolf is dead.

This is pretty screwed up logic, but that's the basic of the series.

[Workworkwork]

Originally Posted by Joneleth

I posted this on OT-kun's Tea party but I might as well post it here :

I have an idea of how to screw up Red truth :

This is based on Battler's assumption that Kinzo is a title name, Kanon and my own name. :P

See my full first name is Jean-Philippe Serge Hervé. (if you have a more stupid name than me, congrats. :P )
Now Jean-Philippe is the name my mom gave me cause it's the true name of Johnny Haliday. (some French rock star whatever )
However the other 2 come from my 2 uncles Serge and Hervé.

Now Kinzo refused to repeat in red that no one on the island shared the same name.

So I was thinking ok maybe Kanon's true name is the same as someone like George for example. If you say George is dead in red while talking about Kanon, George could still be alive and killing.

But using my uncles example, as long as we don't know the full name of everyone, we can expand that theory.

Example : Let's stay with George, his full name might be George Krauss Rudolf.
So if George dies, you could say in red George is dead. But also Krauss is dead or Rudolf is dead.

This is pretty screwed up logic, but that's the basic of the series.

No, it isn't. You need to play EP5, you people all sound like Erika.

[Joneleth]

Is that good or bad?

[Dlanor A. Knox]

Originally Posted by Joneleth

She will screw the rules because she has money.

lol i tought she would say:

Screw Money, I got rules

[Dlanor A. Knox]

Good in a Bad way

[LyricalAura]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

If her piece isn't present, Erika will have to focus on Piece-Battler, but it is unlikely she can control him: at most, she will only be able to have a "non affected point of view", which is kinda risky, considering Battler's point of view was questioned in Ep5.

If Piece Erika will be the detective again in Episode 6, it's probably in Battler's best interest to keep the POV on her as much as possible to keep Bernkastel from cheating. If Erika's not being watched, she can claim all sort of unobserved shenanigans, like the bit in Episode 5 where she claimed to have listened to Battler's room all night. Playing on the witch's side, the less red he has to give out to pin down Erika, the better.

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by LyricalAura

If Piece Erika will be the detective again in Episode 6, it's probably in Battler's best interest to keep the POV on her as much as possible to keep Bernkastel from cheating. If Erika's not being watched, she can claim all sort of unobserved shenanigans, like the bit in Episode 5 where she claimed to have listened to Battler's room all night. Playing on the witch's side, the less red he has to give out to pin down Erika, the better.

There is evidence that Kanon, Shannon, and Erika may have had knowledge of the meta world while on the game board. Whoever is real world Beatrice referred to the game board too on the phone call.

Bernkastel: ...
Lambdadelta: Who are you?

That screenshot from episode 6 is very close to proving one of my old theories that there is someone observing in the meta world that we have not seen yet.

Battler: Return to the room. This is no place for you.

The other screenshot shows that meta Battler will probably appear on the game board to communicate with someone.

The EP5 TIPS mentioned SSVD so I wonder if there will be a new character with 20 new rules. The knox rules were slightly changed but SSVD #9 requires that there be exactly 1 detective at all times. If that rule applies then whoever is the detective is immune to death until the game ends.

[momobunny]

Originally Posted by Ssol

There is evidence that Kanon, Shannon, and Erika may have had knowledge of the meta world while on the game board. Whoever is real world Beatrice referred to the game board too on the phone call.

That screenshot from episode 6 is very close to proving one of my old theories that there is someone observing in the meta world that we have not seen yet.

The other screenshot shows that meta Battler will probably appear on the game board to communicate with someone.

The EP5 TIPS mentioned SSVD so I wonder if there will be a new character with 20 new rules. The knox rules were slightly changed but SSVD #9 requires that there be exactly 1 detective at all times. If that rule applies then whoever is the detective is immune to death until the game ends.

It certainly does seem like they have some knowledge of the meta world.

That would be interesting, I wonder who would be observing the meta world up to this point? Do you mean a human in the real world or a new witch/demon/magical character?

Meta Battler appearing and talking to somebody on the board would also be quite interesting. Would that scene have to be absent of a detective to effectively work?

That's what I think. A couple of new characters in a new Umineko episode seems inevitable. I wonder if it'll be a standalone character, or another group like the Stakes, Siestas, and the Eiserne Jungfrau (which almost counts as both since Dlanor is like a standalone character anyway).
I personally hope it's just a standalone character.

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by Maho Momo

It certainly does seem like they have some knowledge of the meta world.

That would be interesting, I wonder who would be observing the meta world up to this point? Do you mean a human in the real world or a new witch/demon/magical character?

Meta Battler appearing and talking to somebody on the board would also be quite interesting. Would that scene have to be absent of a detective to effectively work?

That's what I think. A couple of new characters in a new Umineko episode seems inevitable. I wonder if it'll be a standalone character, or another group like the Stakes, Siestas, and the Eiserne Jungfrau (which almost counts as both since Dlanor is like a standalone character anyway).
I personally hope it's just a standalone character.

Yes, the SSVD is a group just like Eiserne Jungfrau is. Here is a part from Cornelia's TIPS:

...Her first choice had been Jurisdiction Eight, the SSVD.
They were an elite band of Witch Hunters under the command of Wizard Hunting Wright, known for rigid efficiency.
If that wasn't possible, her second choice would have been Jurisdiction Seven, the Eiserne Jungfrau.
That's where Dlanor A Knox, famous for her ten wedges, resided....

Wizard Hunting Wright probably will be the main new character with subordinates similar to Cornelia and Gertrude.

[Workworkwork]

Originally Posted by Ssol

Yes, the SSVD is a group just like Eiserne Jungfrau is. Here is a part from Cornelia's TIPS:

Wizard Hunting Wright probably will be the main new character with subordinates similar to Cornelia and Gertrude.

...Wright...



Of course, it's always possible that SURPRISE, PIECE-BEATO IS STILL ALIVE, and Meta-Battler is just upset because he thinks she's desecrating Meta-Beato or something.

And then she becomes his girlfriend and yells at him in the meta-world.

[Tyabann]

The Dine rules are kind of... angry.

Umineko has already broken half of them and the Knox rules already cover the other half... although it would be interesting to see Wizard Hunting Wright try to impose Dine's rules on a gameboard that doesn't entirely support them.

Frankly, I'd rather see Battler summon up a new ally rather than Bern summoning ANOTHER new antagonist. Unless it's K1.

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

The Dine rules are kind of... angry.

Umineko has already broken half of them and the Knox rules already cover the other half... although it would be interesting to see Wizard Hunting Wright try to impose Dine's rules on a gameboard that doesn't entirely support them.

Yeah, there's no guarantee that Dine's 20 rules will come into play. If they do then, as you suggested, a lot would be violated. Ryukishi would need to modify some of them like he did with Knox's rules.

I just think it's probable that Erika would bring in someone stronger than Dlanor if she can.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Frankly, I'd rather see Battler summon up a new ally rather than Bern summoning ANOTHER new antagonist. Unless it's K1.

K1 would be

He's got Ronove, Virgilia, and Gaap. Are you thinking of a new witch or a new demon?

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Ssol

He's got Ronove, Virgilia, and Gaap. Are you thinking of a new witch or a new demon?

I'd like to see another one of the Goetian demons, myself. We have enough witches...

[ameskitty]

Perhaps that's the reason the SSVD forces weren't chosen for the job? The very nature of the game smashes a ton of those rules (2, 3, and 16 seem to be the most explicitly broken) so they'd be pretty much DoA if they came. Well, to use the wording of that tip, it wouldn't be in their jurisdiction.

There are two rules in that set that would be particularly interesting/helpful if they do apply, though (the first one would cut down a ton of suspects, although it'd make some puzzles harder, and I know there's been a lot of argument about the second one):

11. A servant must not be chosen by the author as the culprit. This is begging a noble question. It is a too easy solution. The culprit must be a decidedly worth-while person — one that wouldn't ordinarily come under suspicion.
12. There must be but one culprit, no matter how many murders are committed. The culprit may, of course, have a minor helper or co-plotter; but the entire onus must rest on one pair of shoulders: the entire indignation of the reader must be permitted to concentrate on a single black nature.

As for who could possibly have been spying on the metaworld this whole time (if it's a human), I don't think it's that hard to make a guess. I'd say it'd be somebody who's sneaking around a lot or seems to know more than they let on. Rosa, Kanon, Nanjo (boy would that be weird ) and Kyrie (most likely, I think?) come to mind.

I still think the "return to the room" thing refers to Erika, though :/. I know if I were Battler the first thing I would do is kick her out of the game.

EDIT: And I'm also more inclined to believe that we have an entirely new character intruding in - those were just some guesses XD.

[Kaiba]

There is evidence that Kanon, Shannon, and Erika may have had knowledge of the meta world while on the game board.

I think Jan-Poo pointed it out before. Unless you honestly think Krauss went over 9000 and punched a goat, why do you believe that Shannon and Kanon know about the metaworld? I frankly think it's a massive red herring thrown by Ryukishi who knows we're all going to be making Higurashi comparisons.